High end coilovers
03-18-2019, 11:31 PM
#21
Supporting Vendor
Not probably shocking to anyone, you are going to get a lot of opinions about what constitutes a "high end" anything, and what is worth is it, what isn't, etc.
You can have a good damper that is non-adjustable, in so far as it's good quality, tough, etc. However, damping is not something that is one size fits all, and there are tricks to working with it that can result in a much more responsive car without running really stiff springs, as an example. One tune doesn't suit all. One set of tires. One alignment, one seat, one set of brake pads, etc. But for some reason there is often a notion that one shock valving or setting is good for many. Often non-adjustables tend to be very linear, lacking low speed rebound force/digression. Low speed rebound is what controls body roll, pitch, and the car's behavior in transition. If you lack that, you tend to need a lot of spring or bar to try and get the car to change direction decently. But as there is no free lunch, those things add wheel rate beyond what you might want or be able to use. Particularly if you are trying to maximize mechanical grip and/or make the car work well over curbs, etc.
Now, it's not only non-adjustable shocks that can be linear (and there is a time that's not so bad, but not typically on the front of the car). I've run and dyno'ed shocks that have rebound damping adjustment, but it's linear, which leaves you without much change to low speed, but lots of change at high piston speeds, which isn't really where we ideally want it. In fact there is reason digressive and even regressive shock valvings exist, and that's to give you low speed change without massive high speed change.
Which takes me to adjustable shocks that aren't very good, or do odd things. For instance there is one that only adjusts front compression. That's beyond odd to me, because compression is best used to deal with unsprung weight. It isn't spring rate, or a substitute for it. Then there are shocks that link compression and rebound together. Not good either. Example there is sort of like linking your engine's timing with fuel. You might want more of one, but not necessarily both linked. BTW, too much compression does bad things to the compliance of things, makes the ride harsh, which makes the tire struggle to maintain contact with the ground. And generally be "sudden" and kind of skateboard like. You see this a lot with coil-overs made in Asia.
Like many things, it can be complicated. Cams can be complicated in a similar way. You might have a cam that gives X lift. But if the overlap and duration is wacky it might not work the way you want. Well, same here. You can have shocks that have X force as some piston speed, but what is going on on the way to that point, and after?
Then there are shocks that use tiny pistons. There are shocks that use HUGE rods and displace a ton of oil. There are "high end" shocks that are built without a care in the world about your use, or your spring rates as the take a scattershot approach to the damping. Massive range that leaves you with a lot of not very useful and very coarse adjustments. I've tested cars with a shock consultant there that wanted to make changes to front compression to fix the rear being nervous. I wanted less rear rebound. And in the conversation, it was clear that the shock tech in that case didn't even understand what compression's job was. And while that loose car would have been helped by stiffening from compression it was the wrong move as the front was working well, the rear wasn't. And I believe in fixing the misbehaving end first.
And then there is the fact that brand ______, say "P" aren't necessarily all the same. Unlike off the shelf shocks, what I build in my Penske's is very different than what some others build into theirs. From damping, to curves, even to bump rubbers/stops.
Hope that helps, some.
You can have a good damper that is non-adjustable, in so far as it's good quality, tough, etc. However, damping is not something that is one size fits all, and there are tricks to working with it that can result in a much more responsive car without running really stiff springs, as an example. One tune doesn't suit all. One set of tires. One alignment, one seat, one set of brake pads, etc. But for some reason there is often a notion that one shock valving or setting is good for many. Often non-adjustables tend to be very linear, lacking low speed rebound force/digression. Low speed rebound is what controls body roll, pitch, and the car's behavior in transition. If you lack that, you tend to need a lot of spring or bar to try and get the car to change direction decently. But as there is no free lunch, those things add wheel rate beyond what you might want or be able to use. Particularly if you are trying to maximize mechanical grip and/or make the car work well over curbs, etc.
Now, it's not only non-adjustable shocks that can be linear (and there is a time that's not so bad, but not typically on the front of the car). I've run and dyno'ed shocks that have rebound damping adjustment, but it's linear, which leaves you without much change to low speed, but lots of change at high piston speeds, which isn't really where we ideally want it. In fact there is reason digressive and even regressive shock valvings exist, and that's to give you low speed change without massive high speed change.
Which takes me to adjustable shocks that aren't very good, or do odd things. For instance there is one that only adjusts front compression. That's beyond odd to me, because compression is best used to deal with unsprung weight. It isn't spring rate, or a substitute for it. Then there are shocks that link compression and rebound together. Not good either. Example there is sort of like linking your engine's timing with fuel. You might want more of one, but not necessarily both linked. BTW, too much compression does bad things to the compliance of things, makes the ride harsh, which makes the tire struggle to maintain contact with the ground. And generally be "sudden" and kind of skateboard like. You see this a lot with coil-overs made in Asia.
Like many things, it can be complicated. Cams can be complicated in a similar way. You might have a cam that gives X lift. But if the overlap and duration is wacky it might not work the way you want. Well, same here. You can have shocks that have X force as some piston speed, but what is going on on the way to that point, and after?
Then there are shocks that use tiny pistons. There are shocks that use HUGE rods and displace a ton of oil. There are "high end" shocks that are built without a care in the world about your use, or your spring rates as the take a scattershot approach to the damping. Massive range that leaves you with a lot of not very useful and very coarse adjustments. I've tested cars with a shock consultant there that wanted to make changes to front compression to fix the rear being nervous. I wanted less rear rebound. And in the conversation, it was clear that the shock tech in that case didn't even understand what compression's job was. And while that loose car would have been helped by stiffening from compression it was the wrong move as the front was working well, the rear wasn't. And I believe in fixing the misbehaving end first.
And then there is the fact that brand ______, say "P" aren't necessarily all the same. Unlike off the shelf shocks, what I build in my Penske's is very different than what some others build into theirs. From damping, to curves, even to bump rubbers/stops.
Hope that helps, some.
__________________
Sam Strano
Strano Performance Parts
www.stranoparts.com
814-849-3450
More options than any other single company out there. More parts than any other single company I know: Brakes to Safety, Wheels to Exhaust. Suspension to Air Filters: Girodisc, Hawk, Raybestos, Essex Racing/AP, Ferodo, Wilwood, Penske, Koni, Borg Motorsport, Ridetech, Viking, After Dark Speed, Hotchkis, Bilstein, KW, Forgestar, BC Forged, Forgeline, MRR Wheels and on, and on, and on it goes.
Sam Strano
Strano Performance Parts
www.stranoparts.com
814-849-3450
More options than any other single company out there. More parts than any other single company I know: Brakes to Safety, Wheels to Exhaust. Suspension to Air Filters: Girodisc, Hawk, Raybestos, Essex Racing/AP, Ferodo, Wilwood, Penske, Koni, Borg Motorsport, Ridetech, Viking, After Dark Speed, Hotchkis, Bilstein, KW, Forgestar, BC Forged, Forgeline, MRR Wheels and on, and on, and on it goes.
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polyol (10-01-2020)
03-19-2019, 11:17 AM
#22
Pro
I run the LG G2 on my '16 Z51. They're a solid set up and I knocked over 3 seconds off my lap time with them. I do wish they were adjustable though, one of my local tracks has a very bumpy section and I'm on the edge of traction with bumping/hopping down a section of the track, being able to adjust for this track specifically would be nice.
