Slash621

I'm currently overhauling my brake system on a 2011 C6 Grand Sport. I've got Spiegler SS Lines all around, new brake bolts and Endless RF650 fluid. While I have a LOT of track time prior to this corvette (former PCA instructor, more than 10 24hr/lemons races, some T1 racing in florida), this car isn't intended to be top of the lapping charts. Typically I run in the intermediate HPDE group on tracks I've never been to and the Advanced open-passing on tracks I have at least 10 hours on. I moved recently to the west coast and I intend to take this car all over and drive the tracks I've never been to such as Buttonwillow, the Ridge, Thunderhill, Laguna and Sonoma etc. Being that these are long drives, it's preferred that I'm not swapping pads and rotors at the track (other than critical failures).

In general I'm thinking of going to either flat blanks or Slotted discs for durability, but I'm new to vettes so I don't know the brands. And finally some street/track pads that are consistent. I've seen lots of talk about the Carbotech XP8 and Ferodo DS2500. I'm leaning towards the DS2500. Other key equipment... My suspension is staying stock, I do have a neutral alignment from a race shop locally and I'm running the Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3's (the compound from the SS1LE camaro).

Things I care about.

• Not having to change often pads and rotors, ability to "show up and run".
• Consistent performance (as you can see in my choice of endless fluid)
• Longevity overall of components

Things I don't care about

• Level of dust (my wheels have ceramic coatings over them so i'm not worried about the finish)
• Ultimate peak performance, I wont be "passing on the brakes". I have 24hrs of lemons for that thrill and this car will be HPDE only, no actual races.

Bonus points:

• Lower noise, but I'm happy to take recommendations that have noise issues.

Thanks in advance for your time and review. It seems most people are either in the novice HPDE category and just running OEM, or are opposite in the full BBK or Pad/Rotor swap camp so I'm struggling to see through the fog in between.

Thanks,
Slash

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

Slash,

For what you described as your use I would recommend getting aftermarket front cooling ducts Dba 4000 series rotors Castrol SRF fluid (If you can find it) SS lines you are in the right direction Calipers are fine if you are pushing the car aftermarket BBK is costly but pads are cheaper the 1 piece pads which you will want to use are price Its a trade off. For pads to show up and run and drive home I suggest running Carbotech XP10 front and XP8 rear this combo works very well on the C6 ZO6 platform easy on rotors and is preictally safe to drive on the street. Yes you will have noise and dust but if you just want run with out changing pads this is the best set up in my option.

When Carbotech™ unleashed the XP10™ to the general public it immediately gathered multiple regional, divisional, and national championships. The XP10™ has a very strong initial bite with a coefficient of friction and rotor friendliness unmatched in the industry. Fade resistance is in excess of 1475°F (801°C). XP10™ still maintains the highly praised release, excellent modulation and rotor friendliness that have made all Carbotech™ compounds so successful. Carbotech™ XP10™ is not recommended as a daily-driven street pad due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise.

A high torque brake compound with a wide operating temperature range of 200°F-1250°F+ (93°C to 676°C+). Carbotech™ XP8™ is the first of our racing compounds. Good initial bite at race temperatures, high coefficient of friction, excellent modulation and release characteristics. Extremely high fade resistance and very rotor friendly. Perfect for track day use with any tire and can still be driven safely to and from the track. Carbotech™ does NOT recommended XP8™ as a daily driven street pad due to elevated levels of dust and noise. Carbotech™ XP8™ is a great compound on the front & rear of most open wheel and sports racers.

F:CT1185-S XP10 $326 Less 5% forum discount.
R:CT1185R-S XP8 $279 Less 5% forum discount.

Carbotech brake pads are 100% made in the USA and can be ordered online herehttp://ampdautosport.com/brake-pads/corvette/ or call me at 216-780-8825. Use promo code z28 at check out to receive your forum discount.

wtb-z

Recommending brakes can be hard, since everyone has different tolerances. For your criteria the one thing to think about is there is no really free lunch. A street/track hybrid pad, like the DS2500, is going to wear a lot faster than a dedicated race pad on the track. So while you might not swap hybrid pads in and out, you will need to replace them more frequently overall.

I would also call out that Laguna Seca in particular asks a lot of brakes, I wouldn't bother showing up without a maximum effort pad unless you are comfortable just turning a couple fun laps per session on a day.

theamxguy

I have done a fair number of HPDE days running dual purpose pads, although my selections are more like race pads that you can also run on the street. I will probably get flamed for these two suggestions, but I have had good luck running Hawk DTC 30 pads on the street and track. I have also run Carbotech RP2 endurance pads street and track. Both pads are noisy and dusty, but stopped really well cold and hot. The hawk pads would kill the finish of most wheels, but with your ceramic coating maybe you would be good. The dust from the Carbotech's wiped off easily and they lasted longer than the Hawk pads did.

JRitt@essex

Slash,
The DS2500 is one of, if not the best, dual-purpose road/track pad compounds on the market. It has been for a very long time. We've had C7 Z06 customers run it at VIR in a pinch, and they weren't able to fade it. That said, as wtb-z notes above, wear rates are not going to be so great IMO. Since The front brakes are particularly problematic on these cars vs. any Porsche. The C6 devours front brakes. You need to focus your energies on the fronts...something to keep in mind if/when you have issues. Some notes:

Street tires and stock power (I'm assuming you don't have extra HP since you didn't mention that)- Street tires are good, but today's street tires have similar grip to R compound tires I autox'd with 20 years ago. Even though they're mild by today's standards vs. a Hoosier, they can still enable you to pour a lot of heat into your brakes.

• Not having to change often pads and rotors, ability to "show up and run"- It's unlikely you'll find many pads that will work better than the Ferodo DS2500 in this regard.
• Consistent performance (as you can see in my choice of endless fluid)- We have yet to see anybody consistently fade the DS2500. They have a very high max operating temperature, despite their nice manners on the street (low noise, good cold bite), which is a super rare combo.
• Longevity overall of components- This is where you're going to compromise a bit. Any milder pad that isn't going to chew your discs up when run cold aren't going to have the longevity of a full race compound.
• Level of dust (my wheels have ceramic coatings over them so i'm not worried about the finish)- Dust levels for the DS2500 are average. They aren't great, but certainly not horrible, and the dust is very quick and easy to remove...it doesn't stick, corrode, etc.
• Ultimate peak performance, I wont be "passing on the brakes". I have 24hrs of lemons for that thrill and this car will be HPDE only, no actual races.- The DS2500 is a great performer. They feel good, they're easy on discs, and it's unlikely you'll fade them.
• Lower noise, but I'm happy to take recommendations that have noise issues- DS2500 makes almost no noise. They can sometimes have a little squeak on your final roll-up to a stop, but that's about it.

As much as you don't want to hear this (I've been there many times ), your best bet will be to swap to the Ferodo DS1.11 for heavy track use. Buttonwillow can work the brakes over fairly well depending on configuration (I've driven it many times in my old C5Z06), and Laguna can be as well. What some of our customers do is only swap the fronts out to cut down on 'wheels off' time. For instance, when you're prepping for Buttonwillow you swap the fronts out to DS1.11 and leave the DS2500 in the rear. That situation is not ideal, because you're shifting a bit more work to the front because the DS1.11 has a higher mu than the DS2500. That said, it's usually still workable, and running staggered compounds on the vette has always been 'a thing'.

The best news about the above situation is that the Ferodo DS compounds are all manufactured from the same core materials. That means they can be swapped on the same discs without having to re-bed, scrape the discs clean, etc. When you run them over top of each other, they don't have the judder, vibration, and uneven pad deposit issues that you often get when swapping across brands. If you have the DS2500 already bedded on your discs, all you'll need to do when swapping in the DS1.11 is do several hard stops to get the pad faces and disc faces mated up evenly. When you go out to the track, particularly the first time you run the DS1.11, ease into your early sessions and gradually bring up the heat to full tilt.

The above method can eliminate fooling around with the rear pads, and still give you the heat capacity and longevity you're seeking out of your brakes. Again, these cars are quite a bit different than a 911, and even a Cayman or Boxster. They are brutal on front brakes. If you are attentive to the fronts, you should be able to keep them performing well.

Again though, it's all about compromises if you don't want to swap to full race compounds. There is no pad that can do all things perfectly in all environments. You have to decide where you want to make tradeoffs. If you left the DS1.11 in the front and drove them around on the street for two weeks, they'd start squealing like a stuck pig once all the pad material that was stuck to the disc faces was scraped off. They would then start to wear your discs down as well. When you go to the track though, they can handle the heat and won't wear as quickly. Those are that compound's trade-offs.

Again though, I like to think of the Ferodo pads as a system. You can swap them around and tailor to your needs, so they are quite versatile. You can see all our brake options for your car on our site:
AP Racing and Ferodo brake options for the C6 Corvette GS

Finally, given your experience and the car you're driving, you may find that your front brakes aren't up to the task, even with the race pads. The OEM C6Z/GS setup has some serious potential issues that have been discussed countless times on this forum. We'll be here if you find out that you need something a little more substantial, durable, and reliable.

Slash621

So far, it seems like the consensus is that I should use the Ferodo DS2500 and that my downside is more frequent overall pad changes.

I'm OK with the second part (frequent overall pad changes) because I can do that maintenance in my shop at home. I'm happy to take my time on a weekend and do a fresh bleed and swap of pads and rotors every six months or whatever. But what I hate, is after a 100 degree lapping day at Sebring (my old stomping grounds) having to do ANYTHING in the afternoon except just go home and shower...

Seems with the 2500, as long as I show up with plenty of pad (50%?), I can run at 90-95% of my capabilities and have adequate lapping durability on THAT day (this is what I meant by longevity of components, that they will "last the day" assuming I start with half pad or so).

For my first year with the car, I think I'll go DS2500 with my Endless Fluid. After a year or 2 of doing this if I still like this chassis I'm almost certainly going to go for the Essex racing wide caliper kit and get some wider wheels etc to match. But that decision will cost me around 10-13 grand all said and done, which is 50% of the value of this car. I wont be taking that step until I'm 100% convinced this car is my "long term" chassis. If I end up getting a bit bored by the Grand Sport (say I want a Z06 or want to switch to something totally different like a 911 GT3) then I havent tied myself into the AP racing system which might make my GS a little harder to sell.

Of course if I end up going to sonoma 7-10 times a year... I'll be better off on the AP racing system and swapping pads with the quick changers.

By the way JRitt... On the downside, thanks to your info you guys lost a small deal for SS lines this week since I canceled. However, the REASON for this, was that I did some research here and I'm 100% convinced that I want to go with the AP racing full setup if I get "serious". I'm just going to make my short term setup a bit milder (factory lines and minimal effort), and then go way more hardcore if I decide the GS is my long term ride after 6-10 trackdays. Thanks for being awesome, even if I went with a different ride, Essex's AP kits would be at the top of my list.

Slash621

Thanks for the fill in there. Totally agree on this part. Im certainly going to turn slower laps and run shorter sessions if DS2500's fade (but it seems JRitt seems to vouch they will have consistent performance as long as material is left).

I'm OK with having to change pads between every 1-2 trackdays in my home shop rather than a dedicated set of race pads lasting 5-8 track days but needing to be changed before driving home. I just hate working after the lapping is done, i'm usually beat and it's typically hot.

Slash621

Does anyone have any comments on Rotors? I know we've touched pads..

I'm looking at Centric premium flat face rotors, but is there any major reason to use Stoptech slotted or another slotted rotor in this setup?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...el/grand-sport

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...el/grand-sport

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

If you are willing to swap pads the Carbotech pads can be swapped from street to track on the same rotor with no re-bedding or any issues. . All you have to do is swap pads and go no cleaning of rotors or anything just swap pads and go.. If you are up to thisI program I would go XP12 front XP10 rear and 1521 front and rear for street use..

wtb-z

I wouldn't worry about rotors too much if you're on street or street-adjacent pads. My C5 experience is that on street pads rotors usually wear out before they break. It's on race pads that they break, and how "good" your rotor was starts to factor into how long it lived.

chandretti15

Slash

I have a C6 Z06 that I run at Laguna and Thunderhill. I just did 3 days at Thunderhill this past weekend. Welcome to California!! Those are great tracks but they are hard on brakes.

This season I just put on Stoptech Trophy kits front and rear. I am running Raybestos ST45 pads front and rear. Plenty of stopping power. When I was still running the stock brakes, I ran Raybestos ST45 up front and ST43 in the rear. I would change them at home and drive up to and back from the track on those pads. They only came in the padlet form(not a 1 piece) and were pretty nosiy but they stopped great at the track. For tires, I am running Nitto NT01s.

For rotors when I had my stock setup, I ran the KNS blanks up front. Here is a link to them: https://www.knsbrakes.com/c/car-seri...-+Single+Rotor
They are a great deal. If you could use them, PM me. I only have 2 track days on them. I also have some solid blanks from Napa that I ran with my track pads.

Where are you in California? Did you post a pic on NorCal Vettes FB page today? If it was you, I replied with the pic of the VR C6Z with the hood vents.

Slash621

This is the only vette forum I've posted on. I'm not on any of the norcal spots. For now I've got at least 60% of the current rotor life left, but they are drilled OEM. The pads currently on the car are likely OEM also. I'll likely burn these down for one 7/10ths trackday and that'll also activate the ABS enough that my SECOND flush of Endless fluid will get the remaining 10 year old OEM fluid out of the ABS unit...

Seems like my kit for refreshing these brakes will end up being more endless fluid, KNS Blank rotors and DS2500 pads.

I'm in the North Bay. Home track is Sonoma. So far I've done Lemons races at Sonoma and The Ridge. But the level of speed we carry is a bit lower than a stock GS.

chandretti15

Sounds good. I'm in the East Bay. Would you be interested in the rotors? I really have no need for them any more and will make you a hell of a deal. Don't mean to be pushy but I really want to get them out of my garage and go to someone who can make use of them.

Sonoma is a fun track. I've never run it with my Z. I ran it several times when I had smaller, lower horsepower cars. Too daunting for me with all the walls. Thunderhill 5 mile is my favorite track. I like Thunderhill because there is a lot of runoff and I've used the real estate.

JRitt@essex

It would be highly unlikely that you'd burn the DS2500 up in a day, but this is unfortunately one of those situations where there are too many variables at play. One thing to note though, if you did run DS1.11, you could certainly drive to and from the track on them without issue. We have loads of customers who do that. The worst thing that will happen is that if you're on the brakes much, any full face compound is going to scrape some the pad transfer layer off the disc face. As that happens the pads get progressively noisier. Driving them home to the comfort of your shop poses absolutely no problems though.

Thank you very much for the kind words, and for considering our products! I can certainly live with that downside! :p Some notes on your comments above:

Many of our customers only run our front AP Racing brake kits, and keep a relatively stock rear brake setup. If you look at my other posts on this forum, you'll find me continuously preaching the following: If you want the least work, headaches, and lowest long-term running costs, invest in the absolute best front brakes you can afford. The C6 devours front brakes, but is far easier on the rear (which is quite different from a Porsche). Many owners go through 3-4 sets of front pads for every one set of rears. The vast majority of brake problems people have on a C6 are in the front. If you dig around, you'll find very, very few rear brake problems related to heat capacity. Most of our C6 clients run our rear brake kit for one of a few reasons: A) They want to save the 20 unsprung lbs. that our system shaves vs. the OEM C6Z06/Grand Sport brakes, or B) They hate the look of the mismatched front/rear brakes or C) They want the absolute best setup available on the entire car.

You are far better off to buy one of our front systems for $4k than you would be buying a lesser front and rear system for $4k. The bang-for-the-buck on these cars lives in the front brakes. Addressing those will give you by far the greatest performance, durability, etc.

Many of our clients install the front brake kit to start, and then add the rear later when their rear brakes are shot, as budget allows, etc.

Keep in mind that if you do invest in one of our front brake kits, you'll be able to drive it for several years, beat up on it, and sell it for about 60% of what you paid for it. The ROI on our kits is significant. They eat far less consumables (pads, discs, and fluid), and the strength of the brand and they're proven durability ensures that they hold their value. When you pour money into consumables with the OEM brakes, they ultimately get thrown in the trash. When it's time to sell the car, you'll likely need to buy fresh OEM components, only to then hand them over to the next owner. With our system, you can cash it out and get a few grand back.

The Grand Sport is a great ride, and an excellent choice for track duty. If you ultimately end up upgrading your GS, you may find that you won't be gaining all that much by moving to the C6Z. All the same components bolt onto and into both cars, and the sky's the limit on where you can take it given the abundance of mods in every category. A well-driven C6 GS with bolt-ons offers plenty of the casual fun it sounds like you're seeking.

At this stage though, it sounds like you just need to get out there and feel out the car. Stick to your plan of having good pads and fluid for your initial trips to the track, and see what you think. If you decide to stick with the car, then think about investing your budget in a more stout front brake system. The quicker you make that decision, the less money you'll burn on OEM-style discs, pads, and cooked fluid. These cars offer tremendous fun and performance for the money. I deal with a huge variety of vehicles everyday, and I don't believe you can do much better than a Corvette in terms of fun and performance for the money (that's why have one as my track car!). They're powerful, handle well, take a beating, and every component on the car can be upgraded in some fashion.

Slash621

You should see how tight Sonoma is when you're 4-wide in a lemons race.... Let me think about the rotors. I typically don't put used parts on my cars since I'm a bit OCD. But it might be good to have a set of spares.

Slash621

Regarding the front brake kit, does it fit with the factory C6 GS Wheels? I'm mainly considering the wide caliper kit here (for the 25mm pads). I assume with 25MM pads, I'd be at about a 1:1 ratio of front to rear pad swap if I was on factory calipers in the rear and running something like an XP10/XP8 setup or leaving 2500s on the rear and swapping track specials on the front. The quick swap capability with the fast change clips etc is one of the only ways I'd consider doing pad changes @ the track.

NSFW

Aftermarket calipers might help in getting more life out of a set of pads, just from having more material in bigger and thicker pads. Floating rotors should last longer too since they can expand more uniformly when they get hot.

I run Carbotech XP-12 and XP-8 pads (8s in the rear because StopTech's rear discs are huge) and I drive to and from the track on them. It's about 90 minutes each way, almost all freeway. Other than squealing, they're fine. I will drive to/from shops for service if I need to as well. In the off-season I switch to their 1521 street pads.