JohnGuc

I'm kinda looking at this 1958 Panama Yellow.
Pro-team has it.
They're asking around $50,000 for it the price has gone down since Oct. This is when I first saw it. This is a NOM car. From what I can find this price would be for an original drivetrain car. A NOM car should be in the $30's somwhere.
Does this sound right?? What are the opinions of Pro-team?? I've heard hints of bad stories. How much of a difference in cost should a NOM be??
Thanks
John

:seeya
http://www.proteam-corvette.com/cars/188Q.htm

Katz

I bought my '58 from Pro-Team. I have gobs of stories, all of which I've told. Put pro-team and brun_fid into the search function of the forums and you'll see my heartache with my NOM signet red hardtop-only '58.

JohnGuc

brun_fid
I did the search you recommended and only came up with a radio and aircleaner post. Non on pro-team can you narrow the search down for me thanks

RGGregory

50$K sounds VERY high for a NOM 58. What other "original options" does the car have (note tone of cynicism)? I have to say, most of what you've heard about PRO-TEAM is true. Like Brun-Fid said, do a search of the topic. It seems that only people who haven't got the worst of the deal are those that know what they want, know what the market value is for what they want, are experts in the generation of corvette they are interested in, or take an NCRS judge-type with them. I recently did a title search of my car and found that it passed through pro-team's hands back in 95 after about having it for a week. I bought it 2 private parties later. Seems the guy who bought from pro-team paid 14$k, yes 14$k, more than I paid for it! Needless to say, he wasn't impressed when he found out!

As others told you, Caveat Emptor with ANY "dealer".

vr
Bob

PS - I just checked out the car. What's with the yellow side-walls? Also, while the cosmetics may look good, I'm always dubious of the drive-line condition. Unless they have receipts (with dates) and pictures that you can verify, showing an engine or transmission, etc rebuild, be very, very, cautious. My car was "frame-off restored" prior to pro-team having it and the cosmetics were/are impeccable. However, I had to pull the motor and do a complete rebuild due to two spun bearings (lower end rebuilder had his head you know where). The previous 2 owners only trailered the car, and I have documentation to show they didn't abuse it. Now pro-team, may or may not have know about this, but one has to wonder......

67 327/350 Convertible



[Modified by RGGregory, 8:17 PM 8/5/2001]

gilbybarr

Be very cautious....I bought my '65 from proteam, but not until I had spoken with the prior owner who did a frame off and the restoration shop owner that did the work, carefully reviewed the documentation AND had a very knowledgable friend check out the car closeley. My car was correct and honest and I have been happy with it....however, their negotiation tactics left a lot to be desired with regard to the sale. Dont trust in what is said...confirm it yourself and dont get overly involved with having to have one particular car. And yes, they do add A LOT to most cars....a friend sold his at auction to them at $35,000....it showed up in their flyer at almost $50,000K!
As with everything..let the buyer beware.

JohnGuc

Not sure the search is working correctly.
With different ways this post should come up and it doesnt.
Really can't find any Pro team posts in the C1 C2 forum. Is this my mistake??

So if I learn up on the specific car should I be able to negotiate them down to the $30,000 range this car belongs in??
Would they let me have the VIN to carfax it??
How do they handle someone trying to get the price down?? A lot.

59er

John,

I'd have to say that after having spent around 18 months of negotiations before finaly buying my 59, and having since kept a close eye on early Vette prices both at dealers and private sales, I would have to say that I wouldn't expect any bargains and most definitely not from a dealer.

I bought privately and at the time thought that I was paying way too much for it but I wanted it and there was only one decision, pay for it or forget it, I payed for it and have since been offered considerably more that I paid for it and many of the guys that wouldn't pay the asking price have now told me that they very much regret not having bought it before me.

I have had some very bad experiences with a few dealers myself and a dealer is never my first point of inquiry but they are in buisness to turn a profit and would have to put up with a lot of garbage and time wasters so I don't condem them totaly. I wouldn't expect to be able to haggle much off the price with those guys as they sell lots of Vettes and I'm sure that their attitude will be that If you don't buy it then someone else will.

If you are on a budget or if you just can't justify the high cost of a restored correct car (if thats what you really want) then the only way around it is to buy an unrestored car and put in the long and hard hours, but it will probably owe you more in the long run anyway.

That particular pro team car does seem too expensive to me and I would surely be looking elsware.

You will pay significantly more for a numbers correct car and I can tell you that my NOM 59 is just as much fun as a "correct" car but will never be worth as much as a correct car, but I can assure that I didn't spend anywhere close to 50K and mine had to be imported over to Australia.
In fact even after I have fully restored it, it still won't owe me any where near 50k.

Try GM Downunder, he's in California, He is a dealer but I beleive that he sells quite a lot of consignment cars so his margin doesn't need to be as high. A freind of mine bought a 65 last year and it wasn't a bad car for the money.

Good Luck with your quest.
Mark. :chevy


[Modified by 59er, 4:09 AM 8/6/2001]


[Modified by 59er, 4:11 AM 8/6/2001]

JohnZ

The car is WAY over-priced, and Pro-Team doesn't negotiate to any degree - they always find a buyer eventually, as their product is a purely emotional purchase decision that doesn't have to make financial sense to most purchasers. Keep looking - you'll find a much better deal elsewhere. CarFax doesn't cover any cars made prior to 1981, and a 43-year-old Corvette has probably had LOTS of owners.

7vettes

Pro Team will be at Carlisle in a couple of weeks, so you can check out their Modus Operandi first hand. The cars they bring will be the cream of their crop, but don't expect to inspect them too closely.

67wave_saver

...FWIW...I knocked off $5,000 from the asking price on a 67/350 that they rated as C2+3...I had one major problem with the car that could have caused me a very serious accident...Lucky for me it happened at a very slow speed (reverse)....I informed the Pro Team sales manager at the Carlisle show what happened and he didn't have much to say....also didn't offer to pay for the repairs....If the problem would have occurred at over 50 mph he might have been talking to my wife's lawyer...If they tell ya they check the car for safety....DON"T BELIEVE THEM....Have the car checked thoroughly by a good mechanic if you can't do it yourself....I'm sure you can have the same experiences from other car dealers and private sales...MAKE SURE YOU CHECK THE CAR THOROUGHLY...ESPECIALLY THE STEERING AND BRAKES...

Save the wave :seeya

gilbybarr

Dont expect them to budge much....they will sit on a car for a long long time....I get their flyer every month or so....I have seen cars sit in their inventory for going on two years...yet the price stays published the same. Again, if their game is to buy low and sell as high as they can....keep looking for the car you feel good about.

MassVette

That's crazy! What thieves!

JohnGuc

This isnt what I wanted to hear but I guess I expected it.
The car is priced just way too high.
I was kinda hoping for at least some good experiences.
Guess the 58 is toast unless I can beat them down on the price thats doubtful too.

andy60

JohnGuc,

A bud of mine bought a 62, paid out the nose, NOM (they said they matched), and just found out his frame is so rotted it is not safe to drive.

With that and the above posts you may want to have an expert go with you to look over the car.

Andy

Curtis

You only live in Youngstown Oh. If you could make it to Charlisle then that is what I would do. You may see something there. Not sure what the prices will be, but there will be a pile of old vettes. I went once and couldn't believe how many vettes were there.

Take your time and you will find what you want. It took me a while, but I bought a '60 for $17K and I drove it home. It needed work, but it was a fair deal. I have alot of money in it, but it is done right and I drive it with confidence.

Good luck,
Curt

:chevy

58Mike

<< This isnt what I wanted to hear but I guess I expected it. The car is priced just way too high. >>

John, actually I think this would be good news. A car like what you described will cost less than you originally expected! Those Panama Yellow ones are hard to find, though. I love that color, but I saw a guy driving a much brighter yellow (Panama Yellow is sort of a faded yellow) '59 or '60 last week that looked great!


[Modified by 58Mike, 2:14 PM 8/9/2001]

LT1driver

BUYER BEWARE...one of the owners was sent to the federal pen for fraud involving corvettes if I remember correctly.... BUYER BEWARE...does a leopard ever change its spots?

ARed64

John:

While price is certainly a consideration, the first thing should be the authenticity of the car. Overpaying for a good car is bad. Overpaying for a bad car is terrible. At least you will get enjoyment from the good car and it will retain some type of value.

The price of this car seems high. I would expect this price for an absolutely perfect car that was all original. I would be suspicious of their representations. It seems to me ProTeam's ads use too many sales "weasel" words. What does "most all corrct factory components" mean? The components are either correct or they are not. If they are aware that some are not, then which ones are they. Also, different people have different definitions of "NOM", "Correct", "Original Motor" and "Numbers Matching". This always needs to be clarified. Forget these terms. I would verify if the motor was the engine that came with the car from the factory.

I have never dealt with ProTeam but have heard a number of horror stories about them. Even if you find a car from them that looks good and is a fair price, check their sales contracts. I have heard they have a lot of language in them that lets them off the hook for any representations they make.

I would suggest that you stay away from them unless you take along an NCRS judge that has experience delaing with them (I know of at least one that does). ProTeam cannot and will not BS these guys.

With the state of things in the Corvette hobby, I would not buy any original type car unless it has been checked by an expert (i.e., NCRS judge) and fully documents any representation. Again, this would only apply to an original type restored car. Drivers and project cars are less of an issue. There is just too much going on in the original car hobby with fakes and such to believe anyone. I have even heard stories of experts being fooled by fake casting numbers attached to motors, etc. Also, paper work is being faked including Bloomington and other awards. Check the authenticity and date of the award with the organization that granted it. Even if authentic, things may have been changed on the car since the award that would prevent it from qualifying,

I'm not trying to scare you off. Buying the car can be fun and you can meet some great people, you just need to be very aware of the environment to avoid being taken. You might try joining NCRS first before buying an original car. Good Luck!

std63

John,

The price is definately too high for what the car appears to be. I have never bought a car from ProTeam, but I have dealt with them on many occasions and have been satisfied with them. This is probably due to the fact that they knew that I was going to have three people inspect the car in addition to myself and I was dealing directly with Terry Michealis (the owner) If you do call them, ask for Terry because then you can get a better price because Terry will not have to pay a salesperson commission. The prices from ProTeam are high as they try to make $10,000 on every car they sell. They do have "sales" every year in December and in June. At this point the cars are anywhere from $3,000 to $20,000 lower. Keep in mind that not every car is put on sale, its usually the cars that have been sitting for a while.

I would try to buy at Carlisle if possible, as long as you bring an expert with you. Be careful, there are many definitions of a frame-off restoration as well as many defintions of matching numbers....Also, just because a car has been judged by NCRS or Bloomington does not necessarily mean that the engine pad is O.K.....The car may have been modified since the time it was judged.

If you want to buy from a dealer, try Unique Corvettes on Long Island. They have a web site with a few cars late 50's to early 60's. One thing I can say about Unique is that their cars are very clean and all have been recently frame-off restored...but they are very expensive. Unique should be at Carlisle as well. Feel free to e-mail me for more info if you would like.

Scott

GTs 58

John.
I spent two years looking for a 58, never thought of paying the price that Pro was asking. There are a couple places in Texas that deal in a lot of C1's. One place states some of their cars have a fresh 100% resto. and the price is around 45 to 50k. I have talked to them , but have not actually seen the cars in person. There must have been at least 60 web sites I checked every day for months, and the Panama Yellow was very rare. This was my first color choice.

Try these poeple if your in the 40 to 50k range http://www.corvetteworld.net