65-327/350

Hey Guys!
I'm new to this corvette game. What is the difference between original numbers and numbers matching? Is it possible to have a numbers matching vette without the original motor? Is there a way to identify what kind of motor a '65 vette had by the serial# or trim tag? I do not have the protectoplate.

67's

Original motor means exactually what you think it does, numbers match could also be a C.E. block, which was a warranty service block, or a correct part # not Vin # of the motor, yes you can have what is commonly called matching #'s without having the original motor, the only way you can tell what HP the car is is off the block.

Tom McCabe

olredalert

Welcome to the board and the world of plastic fantastics.Hope you enjoy yourself as much as the rest of us do in this hobby.It can be really rewarding!
You have asked some questions that some of us answer differently.Personally,when I hear "matching numbers" in reference to the engine,I consider that engine to be a duplicate to the original.Whether the duplication has been done well or shoddily,its still a duplicate.The correct term for the original engine is just that,"the original engine"or "the engine out of the car".There are definetly ways to tell whether your engine is the original or not.There are two sets of numbers stamped on the front passenger side of of the cylinder deck,in front of the head.The smaller (in size) of these two sets should coincide with your VIN no.I could go on and on and on,but perhaps you should purchase Mike Antonicks Corvette Black Book(along with other books)and start to educate yourself.These books can be purchased at many different vendors(Long Island Corvette for one).You could also join NCRS and pick up all the backround material you could ever hope to use!Hope this gets you started,and good luck!!!.............Bill S

65-327/350

Thanks guys
Does anyone know if there is a website out there to research your numbers?

67's

Buy either a NCRS TG&JM or Spec Book

Tom McCabe

Mag Red Man

An original motor has, by default, "matching numbers". But a common practice is to restamp a block. This process removes the original numbers on the block from another vehicle, and then restamp new numbers onto the block to match the vehicle numbers. This act is driven by greed. Some restamps are so good it's hard to tell if it's original or not. There's a master pad library that can be used to check the authenticity of the stamp, should you choose to go that route.

ZEEEE06

NCRS and Bloomington judges can't even spot well done re-stamps any more.

65-327/350

I've been veiwing this forum for a couple weeks now. So far I love it. You folks out there are very knowledgeable and helpful. Okay, here are the numbers off my block, engine# CE5N2445 (in larger size), 5113141 (in smaller size). casting# 3959512. Can anyone find out what these numbers mean? My VIN is 194675S113141. Do I have a correct engine? Does the numbers match?

redvetteman

Based on your #'s you have a replacement block(CE# on block is for replacements). It is interesting that someone did stamp the VIN # on the block though. Maybe dealer replaced it as a warranty while car was still under the factory warranty and took the time to stamp the #'s on it. Or maybe someone at some time did it to pass it off as the original engine.

396 RAT

O6, I agree,
I bet your right. Its gone to another level.
I don't really agree with it. (as IMHO its done for profit)
Kinda like all the Red Vettes, or L88'S,
OR 435 cars, ect ect ect.
I have been restoring cars in my garage
for over 20 yrs, and do the best I can
concerning parts, but will never restamp anything.
And would feel funny when I was finished.
I have a Service replacement block in a car that was installed
in 71 at the dealer. (they threw a rod on a test drive.....nice!)
They rebuilt it using the orig. crank /rods/ heads ect .They ordered a replacement bare block. (called a Mexican 302)
I have seen 289 hi-po blocks over the past 17 yrs of ownership I could have
restamped, but the block in it has the same main caps,
& works the same. The only difference it would make is
I could tell a perspective buyer (numbers match) and charge more.
Then that owner would most likely sell it as orig. And somewhere down the line
there would be another owner, who paid the big bucks and would feel like he
had been taken. I know its common practice now, but Its not for me. :blueangel:
Everyone used to feel this way, but somewhere down the line it became
OK. Now I am the minority:confused:

JohnZ

Your engine is a service replacement block, but none were made until 1969 (when GM started the 5/50 powertrain warranty) and the volume of warranty replacement engines went through the roof, creating the "CE" engine category. "CE5xxxx" indicates your engine was assembled in 1975, and your car didn't have a 5/50 powertrain warranty, so it was most likely purchased over the parts counter (out of some customer's pocket, not under warranty), and the customer asked the dealer who installed the engine to stamp the VIN derivative on the pad (or someone else added it later) - this was not done as a normal part of the warranty engine replacement process.

"CE" engines were supplied to the dealers as short blocks, and they re-used the undamaged bolt-on parts (heads, intake, water pump, etc.) from the failed engine - any bolt-on parts that were damaged (like heads) were ordered separately. There is no way to tell what internals are in a "CE" engine from the outside; there were 20-30 part numbers of them, to cover each application, and the dealers ordered them by the specific part number required, which is not on the engine anywhere.

It would be interesting to see the casting number and dates from the heads and intake and compare them against the casting date of the block. It could very well be a "CE" engine that was warranty-replaced in another car and then removed from that car, installed in yours, and stamped with the matching VIN derivative to make someone feel good.