TCracingCA

Anything that the general public can't get!

PS Yet!

Bluestripe67

Could it be Mickey Thompson? Dennis

Dr L-88

Looks like the engine has a magneto.....................perhaps a Vertex or Joe Hunt. I am surprised that a mag would be allowed in that type of racing back in 1963.

DZAUTO

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, and your point???????????
It's always good to obtain ANY additional information, OR, provide information for those who are not familiar with past engineering efforts.

AND, by the way, an owner of a 62 Chevy (full size) with alum sheet metal is supposed to call me and provide some historical information (as he knows it) about the handful of 62 Chevys with alum panels.
I find any and all information regarding these early day, low volume performance cars VERY interesting. OH, guess what, there WERE other high perf Chevrolet products built besides Corvettes.

Tom Parsons

DZAUTO

BINGO!!!!!
I was just getting ready to point this out!

Here is a 348, built into a 427 by the machinist that I use for all my engines-----------------he's done LOTS of tricks to this motor---------------------ESPECIALLY the tripower setup! This is going in his 58 Cameo. The block, heads, and tripower manifold have 58 casting dates and it has a TRUCK pan.

















Tom Parsons

Bill Lacy

The Daytona American Challenge race was a pretty much a race what you have race. It had to be a production car with the same manufacturer engine not to exceed 428 cubic inches and a few other rules. This is a picture of the Winning Tempest that sported a 421 CI engine...

Tyler Townsley

Bored and stroked to 479 CI

Parked in 1968 after turning 2 rod bearings street racing a BB Corvette:
http://deliquescence.net/~tyler/buick/FF05_Before.jpg

Rescued/Restored 2002:
http://deliquescence.net/~tyler/buick/FF11_After.jpg

Unfortunately some of the documentation and timing slips burned in a house fire. Raced in earnest 25 times lost only once then parked. Raced Oldsmar and East Tampa dragway in 66-67.

Tom I know Ken turned up a lot of info (work orders etc) on Johns SR1 and the 66 L-88 engines, has he done any looking for the same type info on these engines?, if not maybe you can get him interested in looking since he has the access.

Tyler

GCD1962

You could not walk into a dealer and order the Z-11 copo option, it took special connections with GM. A friend was able to get one, Billy Lagana (his brother is Bobby Lagana who's two sons Bobby Jr and Dominick run current top fuel). He took delivery at Tarrytown (although I don't think assembled there). He took out a car loan and had a payment of something like $80 a month !. The car ran consistent 11,8s, sometimes a little slower, sometimes faster, but only had 7" tires (the rules at the time). I don't know the relation of that motor and the other 427 being discussed, but I do recall back then everyone saying the Z-11 had the mystery 427. He eventually sold the car and bought one of the Ford 427 Falcons which were popular A/FX car of the time. He sold the car to a guy named Ed Robbins who sold his toy train collection to buy the car. He had Jenkins do the tuning. At one point he blew the engine then sold the car for next to nothing. It appeared a few years ago down in Florida with it restored and claiming it had the original 427 in it. The guy later clairifed it was a replacement correct engine (I guess too many knew the original one was junk and thrown in a river!). The car was called "Locomotion" Later these cars would run mid to lower 11's once they began to use larger tires.,

MikeM

Don't know about the connections. I do know that in the spring of 1963in Gary, Indiana, a guy named "Karras" showed up almost every evening at Sammy's Drive-In in his new Z-11, red Impala.

The Chevys parked on one side of the building and the Mopars on the other. If you had a Ford, you parked over in the rocked part of the lot.

Anyway, he had no engine in the car for at least three months but he'd come almost every evening, being towed in with a chain. Park the car and just sit there until closing time.

Maybe one of you northern Hoosiers remember this guy?

Z-11 engines and parts were easy to get. They stayed in the parts books for quite awhile. Same with many of the body parts.

A little off-topic. How many of you guys know about the complete OTC factory kit to put a FI 327/360 engine, BW T-10, traction bars, exhaust and all the other stuff to install the engine in a first generation Chevy II?

AZDoug

no, but his personal mission was to drive Duke Williams off the board, for some reason known only to him, once Duke was gone, Dallas disappeared.

Doug

63Corvette

Bill, Both of those Corvettes are 1963 Z06 corvettes. The ONLY 427 was #3. As mentioned, there was rain (as you can see in the pictures) and there were small "inspection holes" (with flaps) cut in the front inner fenders so the driver could check the wear of the front tires on the banking. However, with the rain, the engine/exhaust turned the spray to fog/mist which coated the inside of the windshield, meaning no vision Here is a little better picture...

This is the 427 below (note the spray)

Bill Lacy

You are correct I pulled the wrong picture.

oldskydog

Nice engine, Tom.
What can you tell me about the carbs installation? I thought about using the Corvette carbs on my 409 with 348 3x2 intake, but didn't think there was enough spacing to fit the carbs on the intake.
BTW, you shoud join us over on the 348-409.com forum, a bunch of great guys there.

JohnZ

Two different engines - the Z-11 was a "W"-block (like the 348/409), and the "Mystery Motor" was the forerunner of the Mark IV big-block.

GCD1962

I understand that John. I was relating what the Z-11 engine was called backin '63. It was called (although incorrectly) the Mystery Motor, this was even by those who owned the cars - go figure !

DZAUTO

AND THAT IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!
This is a prime example of the sort of thing that just drives me up a tree with MANY automotive journalists. Many of them seem to write articles just to see their work in print, and they are NOT knowledgeable of their subject material. Or, they just do not proof read their own material before submitting it for publication. Or, they just DO NOT know what they are writting about, either because they are piggy backing off of some other person's lack of knowledge. Or, they just DO NOT bother to do adequate research about the material because they THINK they are omniscient (all knowing------------I rarely have an opportunity to use these big words ). As a result, people who are interested in learning, read this misinformation, and, believing it to be gospel, go out into the world making MORE incorrect statements!!!!!!!
And I could just go on and on and on and on.
Consequently, several years ago I let ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL my automotive publications expire. Not only did I get totally fed up with all the ads (some publications had become virtual catalogs), but I just got sick of the bogus crap in many of the articles.
I THOROUGHLY enjoy reading and learning from truly knowledgeable people who were there, such as John Hinkley (John Z). I REALLY wish Ken Kayser were on here ocassionally.

Tom Parsons

63Corvette

While I agree with you, I think that you do a pretty good job on this forum yourself. After all, you do have the only ORIGINAL Air Box 400CID 1956 Fuelie, and I do enjoy ALLLLLL of your posts and comments

wmf62

56...

Bill

63Corvette

56? Sorry......dang, that means I can't tell em apart

W Guy

I'm also happy to see this thread resurrected. Mike, regarding your statements above, there is no record of any "package" of Z-11 type parts offered through service parts for racers to upgrade their 409s. It is known that individual parts were made available to some racers late in '62. Racers had to know what they were doing though. The intake valves were moved up a 1/10th of an inch on the Z-11 heads, so bolting them on a stock 409 would result in the valves shaking hands with the pistons if the reliefs weren't cut to make room for them. A lot of Z-11 heads got broken from people who tried it without knowing.
As for the aluminum fender equipped Impalas, they were delivered with stock 409hp 409 motors (no special Z-11 engine parts).

Regarding the Mystery Motors, I had the pleasure to speak with Dick Keinath several times before his passing. He was the engineer completely responsible for the development of that motor. I had also heard from a "reliable" source that 44 engines were built, but not even Dick knew for sure. The motors were in a constant state of development and he wasn't there all the time when they kept cranking them out and shipping them to racers. Dick did tell me that Ford complained to NASCAR and they forced Smokey to deliver 2 of them to Ford for testing. This was all being done without the top brass being aware of it. Dick told me it wasn't until the Feb Daytona race that they even found out about it when a reporter asked an exec about the "new" motor that was there. He replied, "what new motor?". That was when the poop hit the propeller and the plug was pulled on the program and everyone was told their job was at risk if they were caught working on them. There were several blocks and parts still in a design and test loop so it's possible some of them made it out the door or were scrapped. No one really knows for sure how many made it out. No one was counting.
Also of note is the fact that there were 2 versions of the Mystery motor. The first was the MKII which had a 396 cu in displacement. Then the MKIIs (for stroked) was built which was the most notable one at 427 cid.
Here's a pic of one of the first ones, cast in Sept. '62


This particular motor also has one of the extremely rare 2x4 intakes that were made for it. This would indicate an interest in drag racing, since NASCAR only allowed a single 4bbl.


Here is a different casting number of a motor cast in Jan '63


Here is a view of the exhaust port shape.


A view of the valve train. Notice the cast iron push rod guide plates.


Verne