502 / 572 Big Block Install
01-14-2007, 10:35 AM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
502 / 572 Big Block Install
I am thinking of going big since my car is not original motor anyway. The 427 is long gone. Who has done this swap (pics if you have them) and what issues did you have? My only thought is getting the hood to shut
Any input would be helpful, I will be doing it all myself. Thanks
Any input would be helpful, I will be doing it all myself. Thanks
01-14-2007, 10:39 AM
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a 502/502 will bolt right in, but you will have to use an electric fuel pump.
01-14-2007, 11:28 AM
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Here's the 572 project ("King Ray") Jerry Clark did for "Corvette Enthusast" magazine - stock GM 3x2 intake with Moroso intake spacers, just had to cut the air cleaner element spacer down about 1/4" to get it to fit under a stock BB hood. Also needed a different oil pan, as the 572 comes with a truck pan.
01-14-2007, 11:49 AM
#7
Burning Brakes
I have the 502 in my 67. Its pretty much a direct bolt in. For a 4 speed car you will need an adapter for the Z bar clutch ball as the 502 has no provision for one. As mentioned above you need a electric FP.
Your stock tach will need an up grade to electronic or use your stock distributor, If you do I believe you need to change the gear to work with the cam.
Good luck with your project
Russ
Your stock tach will need an up grade to electronic or use your stock distributor, If you do I believe you need to change the gear to work with the cam.
Good luck with your project
Russ
01-14-2007, 12:13 PM
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572
I just completed a 572 install with TKO-600 5-speed tranny a few months ago and there are major issues installing 572 vs 502. Main problem is that 572 uses tall deck block and this causes a number of dirrferent problems. You will have header problems which require customization and hood will not clear. I uses Wieand 8018 intake with spacers so it would fit the tall deck and even then I had to shave carb mount 400 thousands to get it to fit. Used a K&N 2 3/8 filter with flat chrome cover and this gave me about 1/4" hood clearance. Also had to change out distributor for one with adjustable neck to fit the new intake and tall block. MSD or Mallory sell them. Used Dewitts HD rad with dual electric fans. In my case I have air and I decided to use a Billet Specialties Serpentine belt system which works great, but is expensive.
If I was doing agian for a driver car I would use a 502 as it is basically a bolt in replacement for the 427.
If I was doing agian for a driver car I would use a 502 as it is basically a bolt in replacement for the 427.
I am thinking of going big since my car is not original motor anyway. The 427 is long gone. Who has done this swap (pics if you have them) and what issues did you have? My only thought is getting the hood to shut Any input would be helpful, I will be doing it all myself. Thanks
Any input would be helpful, I will be doing it all myself. Thanks
01-14-2007, 03:00 PM
#10
502/427 replacement
I have a 66 that I changed over to a ZZ502 carb unit from an original 390 hp 427.Even if the 572 would have been avalible when I did my swap I would have still gone with the 502.I have 8" wide tires all around and I'm looking for 10" knock offs for the rear and I will never have enough traction to use all the power of the 502 let alone the 572.Using a 66 427 bubble hood the carb 502 is a tight fit but it will clear.I use a 3/4" carb spacer to prevent vapor lock & it just clears!! With a 67 427 hood,you will have even more room.A fuelie 502 will not fit (with a 66 bubble hood) unless you mill material off the bottom of the intake.There is no way the std,copper 427 radiator will cool the 502!! I went with the Be Cool alumie unit which will drop right in to your std 427 shroud asy and I added the pusher fan,(I also use the std 5 blade declutching fan as well).I also swapped a 160 degree stat for the 180 degree unit supplied with the motor and I have NO cooling issues.If you have a 4 speed you will need a special Zbar bracket to mount your clutch ball.Dump the oil pan that comes with the 502 (its way too deep and you will scrape going into driveway aprons) in favor of a Chevy pan with less depth and more side flare.I went with a complete MSD electronic ignition to avoid plug fouling in traffic and used an MSD tach drive billet distributor so I could use my regular tach.Make sure you get the distributor cap with the air vent on the top of the cap (the correct one is bright red not deep maroon) as due to heavy ozone inside the cap any unplated metal will rust big time as mine did and after 4 years of driving the response and hard starting problems kept getting worse until I popped the cap and saw rust everywhere.I love my 502 but after a year or two of stopping at every gas station you will want to install a 5 speed which I plan to do in April.If I were to do it all over again I would also swap the 4 speed for a 5 speed and drop the assembly right in!! DONE
01-14-2007, 03:13 PM
#11
Melting Slicks
I think you will like the 502/502. We installed one in our 67 and several friends have also used it. Most of the issues you will face have been mentioned but here is a little more detail which should be of help.
The stock 502 oil pan is a little deep especially if your car is lowered much from stock height. Our car was lowered to the point where we had only had 2&1/2" of ground clearance and that certainly wasn't the first thing we wanted to hit over a speedbump! GM Performance makes a 4 quart (5 with filter) pan that will give you more clearance. The oil pan is available from GM Performance Parts and the kit is #12495360. It comes with the pan, four main cap bolts, the oil pump screen, the oil level tube, dipstick and the pan gasket. I spoke with Moroso when I needed a shallower pan and they didn't have one at the time but they now make a six quart pan with side kickouts to work with the one piece rear seal. There may be others such as Milodon who have them as well.
Although the stock big block exhaust manifolds can be made to fit they would need some grinding along the flange area as it comes into contact with the head bolts. The bolt locations they use on the aluminum heads are different than a regular big block and a little grinding is needed. You might also want to match the shape of the exhaust ports. I think headers are the easier way to go. Just get them ceramic coated to keep the underhood temps down.
The headers we used are from Sanderson. The Sandersons are made specifically for that head bolt arrangement and port shape. They are model BB5 for that engine are well made. They have a machined ring on the flange that doesn't even require a gasket. You just use a sealant. I also used the Stage 8 header bolts which have retainers to keep them in place. You do have to watch for clearance at the idler mount. We had to replace the stock bolt and nut arrangement and tap the hole to mount a bolt to give us about a half inch of additional clearance.
If you are using side exhaust you will have to fabricate the connection from the header collector to the side pipes. You also have to cut the side pipes where they turn upward in order to connect them to the new short piece of pipe you make from the collector. It's not all that difficult to do but does take some fitting and welding. After finishing ours I had them ceramic coated. There has been a lot of discussion of different side exhaust mufflers (e.g.. Spiral Turbo & Stainless Works, etc.) and the archives should have several threads on that subject.
With the Mark V or VI engine you will also need the clutch "Z" bar adaptor plate as the forward location you need on a Vette isn't there due to an external oil plug location. The clutch bracket is available from Scroggins-Dickey Chevrolet. It wasn't available when we did ours and I had thought about making a similar bracket but decided to go with a hydraulic setup. Believe me, sticking with the mechanical linkage will be a lot easier!
Another area to watch for is your air cleaner setup as the intake manifold is a little taller than that on a stock big block. A big block hood gives a little more clearance but you will also likely have to use a shorter height air cleaner. There should be several threads on that subject in the archives.
This engine comes with an HEI dist. which doesn't have a mechanical tach drive. I went with an MSD billet dist. with a mechanical tach drive but you also need to use a "mellonized" dist. gear since the roller cam will eat up a regular gear. I had to retro-fit the stock HEI gear but MSD should now have the right one.
Since the engine doesn't have a provision for a mechanical fuel pump you will need an electric unit. We placed ours along the passenger side frame rail at the rear of the frame just ahead of the gas tank. We also used a billet fuel filter placed on the passenger inner fender well.
For cooling we used a Be Cool radiator and dual Spal fans but there are other vendors such as DeWitts that make a radiator/fan setup which should work great.
For the engine accessory brackets we used a serpentine system and pulleys from March but others such as Street & Performance also have them to work with whatever accessories you are using.
You will also need the externally balanced flywheel (168 tooth gear) but your stock big block bellhousing will work. We used the Centerforce Dual Friction clutch and pressure plate setup. The engine uses the mini high-torque starter which works great.
I have some pictures which could be of help and if you need those just send us an e-mail and I'll send them to you.
Best of luck with your project.
The stock 502 oil pan is a little deep especially if your car is lowered much from stock height. Our car was lowered to the point where we had only had 2&1/2" of ground clearance and that certainly wasn't the first thing we wanted to hit over a speedbump! GM Performance makes a 4 quart (5 with filter) pan that will give you more clearance. The oil pan is available from GM Performance Parts and the kit is #12495360. It comes with the pan, four main cap bolts, the oil pump screen, the oil level tube, dipstick and the pan gasket. I spoke with Moroso when I needed a shallower pan and they didn't have one at the time but they now make a six quart pan with side kickouts to work with the one piece rear seal. There may be others such as Milodon who have them as well.
Although the stock big block exhaust manifolds can be made to fit they would need some grinding along the flange area as it comes into contact with the head bolts. The bolt locations they use on the aluminum heads are different than a regular big block and a little grinding is needed. You might also want to match the shape of the exhaust ports. I think headers are the easier way to go. Just get them ceramic coated to keep the underhood temps down.
The headers we used are from Sanderson. The Sandersons are made specifically for that head bolt arrangement and port shape. They are model BB5 for that engine are well made. They have a machined ring on the flange that doesn't even require a gasket. You just use a sealant. I also used the Stage 8 header bolts which have retainers to keep them in place. You do have to watch for clearance at the idler mount. We had to replace the stock bolt and nut arrangement and tap the hole to mount a bolt to give us about a half inch of additional clearance.
If you are using side exhaust you will have to fabricate the connection from the header collector to the side pipes. You also have to cut the side pipes where they turn upward in order to connect them to the new short piece of pipe you make from the collector. It's not all that difficult to do but does take some fitting and welding. After finishing ours I had them ceramic coated. There has been a lot of discussion of different side exhaust mufflers (e.g.. Spiral Turbo & Stainless Works, etc.) and the archives should have several threads on that subject.
With the Mark V or VI engine you will also need the clutch "Z" bar adaptor plate as the forward location you need on a Vette isn't there due to an external oil plug location. The clutch bracket is available from Scroggins-Dickey Chevrolet. It wasn't available when we did ours and I had thought about making a similar bracket but decided to go with a hydraulic setup. Believe me, sticking with the mechanical linkage will be a lot easier!
Another area to watch for is your air cleaner setup as the intake manifold is a little taller than that on a stock big block. A big block hood gives a little more clearance but you will also likely have to use a shorter height air cleaner. There should be several threads on that subject in the archives.
This engine comes with an HEI dist. which doesn't have a mechanical tach drive. I went with an MSD billet dist. with a mechanical tach drive but you also need to use a "mellonized" dist. gear since the roller cam will eat up a regular gear. I had to retro-fit the stock HEI gear but MSD should now have the right one.
Since the engine doesn't have a provision for a mechanical fuel pump you will need an electric unit. We placed ours along the passenger side frame rail at the rear of the frame just ahead of the gas tank. We also used a billet fuel filter placed on the passenger inner fender well.
For cooling we used a Be Cool radiator and dual Spal fans but there are other vendors such as DeWitts that make a radiator/fan setup which should work great.
For the engine accessory brackets we used a serpentine system and pulleys from March but others such as Street & Performance also have them to work with whatever accessories you are using.
You will also need the externally balanced flywheel (168 tooth gear) but your stock big block bellhousing will work. We used the Centerforce Dual Friction clutch and pressure plate setup. The engine uses the mini high-torque starter which works great.
I have some pictures which could be of help and if you need those just send us an e-mail and I'll send them to you.
Best of luck with your project.
01-14-2007, 05:02 PM
#12
Plenty of directions you can go... I think the 502 block makes more since
... you can make more power than a crate 572 without the tall block
issues. Here's a link to Ohio Crankshaft's rotating assembly page that list
some of the common stroker dispacements with a 502 block. A 555ci with
good heads and a cam would have you in the horsepower statosphere.
http://www.ohiocrank.com/rotating.html
... you can make more power than a crate 572 without the tall block
issues. Here's a link to Ohio Crankshaft's rotating assembly page that list
some of the common stroker dispacements with a 502 block. A 555ci with
good heads and a cam would have you in the horsepower statosphere.
http://www.ohiocrank.com/rotating.html
01-14-2007, 05:13 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
Plenty of directions you can go... I think the 502 block makes more since
... you can make more power than a crate 572 without the tall block
issues. Here's a link to Ohio Crankshaft's rotating assembly page that list
some of the common stroker dispacements with a 502 block. A 555ci with
good heads and a cam would have you in the horsepower statosphere.
http://www.ohiocrank.com/rotating.html
... you can make more power than a crate 572 without the tall block
issues. Here's a link to Ohio Crankshaft's rotating assembly page that list
some of the common stroker dispacements with a 502 block. A 555ci with
good heads and a cam would have you in the horsepower statosphere.
http://www.ohiocrank.com/rotating.html
GM does not recommend more than a 4.50 bore in the 502 block.
01-14-2007, 07:41 PM
#14
My bad Troy... I wasn't thinking about brand new blocks.. I had a friend bore his Mercruiser 502 out to 4.560 and made a 555.... he sonic checked the block...
01-14-2007, 08:17 PM
#15
502 Engines...........3.760" 4.000" 4.250" 4.500" 4.750" 4.875"
Stock bore = 4.468"- 472" .. 502".. 533".. 564"...596"...611"
Bored .032" = 4.500"- 478".. 509".. 541".. 573"...604"...620"
Bored .062" = 4.530"- 485".. 516".. 548".. 580"...612"...629"
Bored .092" = 4.560"- 491".. 523".. 555".. 588"...621"...637"
Aftermarket Dart,Merlin,Brodix
Blocks....... 4.000" 4.125" 4.250" 4.375" 4.500" 4.625"4.750" 4.875"
4.500" bore- 509" ...525"... 541" ...557"....572" ...588" ...604" ...620"
4.530" bore- 515" ...532"... 548" ...564"....580" ...596" ...612" ...628"
4.560" bore- 523" ...539"... 555" ...572"....588" ...604" ...621" ...637"
4.590" bore- 530" ...546"... 563" ...579"....596" ...612" ...629" ...645"
4.600" bore- 532" ...548"... 565" ...582"....598" ...615" ...632" ...648"
4.625" bore- 537" ...554"... 571" ...588"....605" ...622" ...638" ...655"
Stock bore = 4.468"- 472" .. 502".. 533".. 564"...596"...611"
Bored .032" = 4.500"- 478".. 509".. 541".. 573"...604"...620"
Bored .062" = 4.530"- 485".. 516".. 548".. 580"...612"...629"
Bored .092" = 4.560"- 491".. 523".. 555".. 588"...621"...637"
Aftermarket Dart,Merlin,Brodix
Blocks....... 4.000" 4.125" 4.250" 4.375" 4.500" 4.625"4.750" 4.875"
4.500" bore- 509" ...525"... 541" ...557"....572" ...588" ...604" ...620"
4.530" bore- 515" ...532"... 548" ...564"....580" ...596" ...612" ...628"
4.560" bore- 523" ...539"... 555" ...572"....588" ...604" ...621" ...637"
4.590" bore- 530" ...546"... 563" ...579"....596" ...612" ...629" ...645"
4.600" bore- 532" ...548"... 565" ...582"....598" ...615" ...632" ...648"
4.625" bore- 537" ...554"... 571" ...588"....605" ...622" ...638" ...655"
01-14-2007, 08:18 PM
#16
Le Mans Master
But I would not give that advice to someone with out looking at the new blocks. From the pictures I don't like the water passages on top. Might just be a Mexico thing but they are not bored on center. And too many issues. I am not high enough on the ladder to get the "good" stuff. :o
The Merlin or Dart blocks look better. There is a place in Colorado that has the Merlin with billet caps for $1800 plus shipping.
Maybe next year. This year I will be running a 505 (3.50 bore x 4.25 stroke).
Look here for better prices. http://www.competitionproducts.com/
01-14-2007, 09:40 PM
#17
Drifting
[QUOTE=knight37128;1558514165]You can not use a GM block with a 555. It will not bore to 4.60. You have to use an aftermarket block. Merlin or Dart.
Sorry guy, my 1000 HP street car is bored to 4.600 " with a GM CNC bow tie #2504 454 block . It still maintains an average of .368 wall thickness.
vetrod62
Sorry guy, my 1000 HP street car is bored to 4.600 " with a GM CNC bow tie #2504 454 block . It still maintains an average of .368 wall thickness.
vetrod62
01-14-2007, 09:49 PM
#18
Le Mans Master
vetrod62
Where was it made?
01-14-2007, 10:41 PM
#20
Le Mans Master
The 502 block is not a bowtie block.
Notice the bold.
from GM catalog
DESCRIPTION: Bare Block
This Gen VI cast iron block is a strong foundation for a big-block engine project. The "short-deck" block was designed to meet the needs of a powerful and dependable 500cid engine for street or boat usage. The block's cylinder walls are "siamesed" and are bored to 4.47". The deck surfaces are reinforced to improve the head gasket sealing. Four-bolt main bearing caps are installed to reinforce cylinder barrels and add strength to the bottom end. Technical Notes: The distance from the crankshaft centerline to the deck surfaces is 9.80". It is used on 502 engines assembly, and partial engine. and can use roller tappet or standard tappet. Casting P/N 10237300. Maximum over bore is 4.500".
DESCRIPTION: Bare Block
This Gen VI cast iron block is a strong foundation for a big-block engine project. The "short-deck" block was designed to meet the needs of a powerful and dependable 500cid engine for street or boat usage. The block's cylinder walls are "siamesed" and are bored to 4.47". The deck surfaces are reinforced to improve the head gasket sealing. Four-bolt main bearing caps are installed to reinforce cylinder barrels and add strength to the bottom end. Technical Notes: The distance from the crankshaft centerline to the deck surfaces is 9.80". It is used on 502 engines assembly, and partial engine. and can use roller tappet or standard tappet. Casting P/N 10237300. Maximum over bore is 4.500".