maddoe

I'm taking care of a NOM 67 BB Vert for my Dad who passed away in 2004. He and I worked on a few cars throughout the years - this being one of them. Even after 4 years I haven't had the heart to go and get the title changed to take his name off of it even though the insurance company tells me I need to. He wasn't a huge Vette fanatic but I always was and I think that's why he bought the car-to pass along to me one day. Unfortunately, that day came long before it should have - he was only 55.

I had just gone to college when Dad bought the car. It was actually 3 days after I left home. I wanted to drop out and come home immediately!!! It was (or so he thought) an original Rally Red, Aux Hardtop, Sidepipes, 427/390. It was and still is in very good shape - not a frame off but an excellent driver. After bringing the car to my house, I began doing research on it. I, like most of you, find it interesting to try and find out about these cars. That's one of the things that makes the hobby so interesting. In doing so, I found some conflicting information that makes me question that this car may not be an original BB. Dad and I just worked on them, drove them and took them to shows. We didn't really get into the numbers on this car. I don't want to write a book here but I would like to present what I know and get a little feedback. Before I do, let me say I don't care if it's an original BB or not. I don't give a $hit if the car is worth $1 or $1 million - it's mine and my Dad's car and it's not going anywhere even if I have to end up sleeping in it. That being said here's what I know:

1. It has a fake trim tag. It says Rally Red with black leather. After looking at edges where someone was too aggressive with the buffer, Sunfire Yellow paint is evident. After that, I got into the glove box and found the protectoplate. The PP matches the VIN and identifies the car as a 390 car, Sunfire Yellow, STD (vinyl) interior. In looking underneath the dash and even where the fake trim tag is you can see the yellow overspray.

2. I was able to find the original owner on the PP. He verified the car was Sunfire Yellow and a 390HP car. He sent pictures of when he had the car. It was a BB but it had no sidepipes. In addition to the pics he sent an invoice from some warranty work and an oil change which had the PP carbon copied onto it in 1967. It matches perfectly. The oil change was $2.27!! Once I saw the lack of sidepipes in the pictures, I got underneath the car and saw where the rear panel had been patched where the rear exhaust was. No big deal - somebody added it later. I would probably do the same.

3. Here's where it gets weird. Last week I dropped the tank to see if the tank sticker was there and it is. It is not very legible but I can make out a few things on it - the date 7-15-66 and expiration date of 9-30-66. My vin is in the first 200 so the dates jive. However, it says that it's an L79 (327/350) with factory sidepipes. Is it possible that the tank sticker is wrong. I also looked with a mirror at the frame vin at the real wheel and it matches the vin on the vin tag and PP.

Sorry for being so long winded but is it possible for the tank sticker to be wrong? Are there any other tell tale signs of a SB converted to a BB?

Any responses I get, thanks for hanging with all the words.

67pete

Which side is the hood support on...
What style radiator..with or without external expansion tank...
U-joints steel or cast....

There are other deltas, but this is a start....

vettes1st

Big block would also have rear sway bar.

FASTZ

Just a guess,gas tank replaced at some time with a used one from another car?I could easily see this happening if the car had work done at a"corvette" garage back in the day.They had lots of good used parts and it did not matter at the time.

LSUvetteguy

67L36Driver

Given the information from the original owner and the protechto plate I would disregard the tank sticker. Like FASTZ posted the gas tank was likely replaced with a used one.

53 Blue Flame Brett

You have all he documentation you need.

Enjoy your car!!!!!!!

427 Mitch

There should be a 3 digit job number written on the tank sticker.
Does it match or is it close to the last 3 digits of your VIN?

Mitch

ctjackster

If you are confident that the P-O-P is not also a fake (I don't think so - even though some PO had a fake TT made up, he wouldn't have had a fake P-O-P made up showing different colors and options). and since you have the OO's advice, it has to be another car's tank sticker.

Try gently brushing off that tank sticker and taking digital pics of it, you might be suprised what info you can brign up. Also, you say that the tank sticker has "the date 7-15-66 and expiration date of 9-30-66." I assume these are dates in the boxes at the top of the sticker - the first date (the earlier one) is the date on which the order was received, the latter date is the "expected date of production." Using the EDoP and your car's birthday (derived off of the VIN production number) might help you further rule out this tank sticker from possibly being associated with your VIN

by the way, there is a pic of a tank sticker from another 67 on the C2Registry that has the same EDoP and that car is prod # 183 or so . . . that's the only really odd thing with the explanantion offered (another tank was swapped in still wearing ITS tank sticker) - that the tank sticker you found is so oddly close in terms of the time frame (a 66 Sept-built 67) to your car

Joel 67

Can you post or email a very high quality picture of the POP?

ratmotortom

It isn't uncommon to find a car with the tank sheet of another car that was on the line at the same time during assembly.

65 fi

Why don't you have a local NCRS judge take a look at what you have? Better yet, take it to a local NCRS event and have it looked at (the items like the correct u-joints,etc. could be verified). I remember looking at a 65 Black 396 with a bogus trim tag but it was an original 396 car (just not black). As pointed out earlier, you have photos from the original owner, POP, etc. You may ask the original owner if he still has a copy of the purchase order or perhaps some warranty work related receipts from the Chevrolet dealership.
Was the original stinger white or black? What was the original interior color?

stingrayl76

I wasn't aware that yellow body color was available from the factory with a white stinger. Thought all yellow bodied cars got a black stinger.

maddoe,
Interesting situation. Thanks for posting and keep us informed on what you find.

Dave

JohnZ

What's the engine code on the P-O-P? It's in the upper left corner, second line down from the top - starts with a "V" or a "T". Further to the right is the rear axle code - what's that say?

maddoe

Thanks for all the responses. I'll try and answer all the questions in this post:

Which side is the hood support on...
What style radiator..with or without external expansion tank...
U-joints steel or cast....
1. The hood support is on the drivers side. No expansion tank on the radiator. Not sure about the u-joints

Big block would also have rear sway bar.

2. It does have a rear sway bar.

Just a guess,gas tank replaced at some time with a used one from another car?I could easily see this happening if the car had work done at a"corvette" garage back in the day.They had lots of good used parts and it did not matter at the time.

3. Part of the sticker was attatched to the top of the drivers side tank strap. I thought what you did until I saw that. It would be unlikely for the tank to be replaced and the sticker remain on top of the strap (I think)

There should be a 3 digit job number written on the tank sticker.
Does it match or is it close to the last 3 digits of your VIN?

4. The right hand side of the tank sticker where I've seen the job number normally written is gone. The job numbers still on the firewall and underneath the body in front of the tank - 188 with no prefix. My vin is 197.

If you are confident that the P-O-P is not also a fake (I don't think so - even though some PO had a fake TT made up, he wouldn't have had a fake P-O-P made up showing different colors and options). and since you have the OO's advice, it has to be another car's tank sticker.

Try gently brushing off that tank sticker and taking digital pics of it, you might be suprised what info you can brign up. Also, you say that the tank sticker has "the date 7-15-66 and expiration date of 9-30-66." I assume these are dates in the boxes at the top of the sticker - the first date (the earlier one) is the date on which the order was received, the latter date is the "expected date of production." Using the EDoP and your car's birthday (derived off of the VIN production number) might help you further rule out this tank sticker from possibly being associated with your VIN

by the way, there is a pic of a tank sticker from another 67 on the C2Registry that has the same EDoP and that car is prod # 183 or so . . . that's the only really odd thing with the explanantion offered (another tank was swapped in still wearing ITS tank sticker) - that the tank sticker you found is so oddly close in terms of the time frame (a 66 Sept-built 67) to your car

5. I'm confindent the POP is real. It looks and even smells old if that makes sense. With a vin #197, the car was built Sept 5, 1966 according to some website that I found out about through this forum so that makes sense with the dates on the tank sticker. I'll try the digital camera and see if I can make it more legible but it's in pretty bad shape.

Can you post or email a very high quality picture of the POP?

6. I don't have a scanner and also don't know how to post pics.

It isn't uncommon to find a car with the tank sheet of another car that was on the line at the same time during assembly.

7. I wasn't sure how rare or common that was.

I wasn't aware that yellow body color was available from the factory with a white stinger. Thought all yellow bodied cars got a black stinger.

8. It has a black stinger now and also did in the pictures from when the car was yellow

What's the engine code on the P-O-P? It's in the upper left corner, second line down from the top - starts with a "V" or a "T". Further to the right is the rear axle code - what's that say?

9. The engine code is T08161LH. I assume this is the rear axle code - AU0810W

From what everyone is saying, it appears to be an original BB but how common was it to have the wrong tank sticker?

ctjackster

Well, the POP lines up with your L36 -

"9. The engine code is T08161LH. "

That's what should be on the orginal engine's (gone now) stamp pad, plus an added "H" for Holley equipped. A 427 assembled in Tonawanda ("T") on Aug 16, in the 390 hp, mt configuration ("IL")

I guess the "wrong sticker slapped on there on the line" explanation is the best one.

JohnZ

And the "AU" rear axle code is a big-block axle (3.36, which was the standard axle with a close-ratio 4-speed, or the optional performance axle with a wide-ratio 4-speed).