1966 L88 COPO - Are there documented cases of this????
03-22-2008, 04:25 PM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
1966 L88 COPO - Are there documented cases of this????
Curiosity is getting the best of me. There is another thread in the Forum that I posted this question in, but haven't had any feedback. It was the thread about the stolen Sunfire Yellow 66 in Topeka. I found the publication posted, at the bottom of my thread, on the Topeka Police website at this link:
http://www.topekacrimestoppers.com/crimes.html
I had thought that the L88 Option was first available with the 1967 model year!!!??? The car reported stolen was a 1966. Can this truly be a "one of a kind Corporate Office Production Order"???
Or am I mistaken and the L88 was available in 66?
The Crime Stoppers Post is 'Cut' & 'Pasted' hereunder. - Pat
http://www.topekacrimestoppers.com/crimes.html
I had thought that the L88 Option was first available with the 1967 model year!!!??? The car reported stolen was a 1966. Can this truly be a "one of a kind Corporate Office Production Order"???
Or am I mistaken and the L88 was available in 66?
The Crime Stoppers Post is 'Cut' & 'Pasted' hereunder. - Pat
CRIME STOPPERS OF TOPEKA INC.
320 S. KANSAS TOPEKA, KANSAS 66603 (785)234-0007
CRIME STOPPERS REPORT
“Crime of the Week”
March 20th, 2008
Topeka Police Detectives are requesting assistance in solving a
burglary, theft, and criminal damage case that took place in north
Topeka.
On March 17, 2008 the owner of a residence in the 1400 block of North
Logan reported to Police that a burglary had occurred to his garage. The victim reported that sometime between 9:00 pm on March 16, 2008and 8:40pm on March 17, 2008 unknown subjects forced entry into his garage.
The suspects forced entry into one of the overhead doors of the garage
which faces the east alley way of Logan Street. After gaining entry the
suspects took numerous items including a set of Mac 3 tier Master Shop
Mech Tool boxes, Sun Dist Test Machine, welders, and numerous other auto parts and tools.
Also taken in the burglary was a 1966 Sunfire yellow Chevy Corvette. The 1966 Corvette was one of a kind Corporate Office Production Order with a 427 L88 engine, "Rock Crusher" 4-speed Muncie Transmission, and factory side exhaust.
The total lost of the theft was estimated at over $300,000 dollars.
(Case # 5554-08)
If you have any information that would help law enforcement solve this crime, or have any information about other crimes, call CRIME STOPPERS at 234-0007 or Toll Free 1-800-222- TIPS(8477) or SUBMIT YOUR TIP ONLINE..
320 S. KANSAS TOPEKA, KANSAS 66603 (785)234-0007
CRIME STOPPERS REPORT
“Crime of the Week”
March 20th, 2008
Topeka Police Detectives are requesting assistance in solving a
burglary, theft, and criminal damage case that took place in north
Topeka.
On March 17, 2008 the owner of a residence in the 1400 block of North
Logan reported to Police that a burglary had occurred to his garage. The victim reported that sometime between 9:00 pm on March 16, 2008and 8:40pm on March 17, 2008 unknown subjects forced entry into his garage.
The suspects forced entry into one of the overhead doors of the garage
which faces the east alley way of Logan Street. After gaining entry the
suspects took numerous items including a set of Mac 3 tier Master Shop
Mech Tool boxes, Sun Dist Test Machine, welders, and numerous other auto parts and tools.
Also taken in the burglary was a 1966 Sunfire yellow Chevy Corvette. The 1966 Corvette was one of a kind Corporate Office Production Order with a 427 L88 engine, "Rock Crusher" 4-speed Muncie Transmission, and factory side exhaust.
The total lost of the theft was estimated at over $300,000 dollars.
(Case # 5554-08)
If you have any information that would help law enforcement solve this crime, or have any information about other crimes, call CRIME STOPPERS at 234-0007 or Toll Free 1-800-222- TIPS(8477) or SUBMIT YOUR TIP ONLINE..
03-22-2008, 04:53 PM
#2
Melting Slicks
Got the strange feeling that someone is trying to screw the insurance company. As far as I know there were no L-88's produced for the 66 model year. JohnZ will know for sure.
Steve
Steve
03-22-2008, 05:08 PM
#3
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Google "Penske L-88"
Built sometime near the middle of January, 1966.
(Does anyone know the VIN of the Penske car?)
Built sometime near the middle of January, 1966.
(Does anyone know the VIN of the Penske car?)
03-22-2008, 06:14 PM
#4
Contact Dick Guldlstrand and ask him about the L88 engined 1966 Corvette he drove at the Daytona 24 Hr race in 1966...
Guldstrand picked the car up at the factory in St. Louis, personally
drove the car to the Penske race shop in Pennsylvania, and oversaw
the disassembly and race preparation of the car... he oversaw the
work done on the L88 engine that the car rolled out of the plant with
and the additional motor that went in the car after qualifying that
was used during the Daytona race... Guldstrands right down the street
friends in Culver City, Ca at Traco Engineering prepared the race L-88.
I had a 30 minute or so conversation with Dick Guldstrand about this
2 plus years ago.. but to my later regret, did not record
the conversation. I called his race shop not expecting to be able
to talk with him and began having a conversation with his secretary
on the information I was after ....when she stumbled a little on
the information I was after- to my surprise Guldstrand got on the line.
Kevin McKay currently owns the '66 Daytona class winner.. He
also visited with Guldstrand and Confered the exact story Guldstrand relayed to me when I spoke with McKay extensively over
about 2 weeks time.... both on the phone, and through emails.
If you are looking for Traditional Corvette documentation in the form
of GM documentation I think you will hit a dead end....
Remember that 1967 model Corvettes began being built in the later months of 1966...
It is my belief that this fact is how Duntov got around the documentation issues and requirements with the Daytona 24hr sanctioning body. The '66 Penske car raced in a Production based
class.
I have had plenty of would be doubters throw sand in the air
when I reported these things here on this forum thumping their GM documentation books.... but none of them took the time, as I did, to call Guldstrand to verify or disprove my
report... I did then, and still do now invite a Guldstrand conversation
test performed by any member here.
I've also had quite a few people tell me "That's just not how GM or
Zora operated"..... Usually these objections are made by people who
sail right past the obvious reality and authenticity of the Grand Sport
Corvettes.... there are documentary historical films of Zora describing getting his hand slapped by GM brass over the Grand Sports that he had
built quietly. near secretly/certainly out of view of project squelchers with a good bit of "paper shuffling" in 1963....
Yet, while they will recognize the behind the scenes activity that
went on to get the Grand Sports built... they absolutely shriek at
the suggestion that an L88 engine could be slipped between the rails
of Production Corvette in St. Louis in 1966, 3 years later, and just a few months before RPO documented 1967cars were built... to be put in the hands of a Grand Sport owner/driver.... Roger Penske, so that he could have an edge in winning some publicity for GM and the Corvette in a well publicized National Level Roadrace.,,, this seems to be a double standard in my view.
I suppose their reasoning is that
1.Zora would build 5 racecars in secret..... but..
2. Would never dream of getting an engine to a racer who needed
it in an unconventional way by shipping it out the factory doors
in a Corvette.
If you are strictly looking for RPO documentation... I think you would
be hard pressed to find any on a '66 model.... I do not, however, believe that the Documented '67 L88 RPO cars were the first
Corvettes to roll out of the assembly line doors with an L88 under
the hood.... I believe the Penske/Guldstrand Daytona car was.
Perhaps if John Neas runs into Guldstrand again at a historical
event we could entice him to quiz Dick Guldstrand on the '66
Daytona car and report his findings back here.
Guldstrand picked the car up at the factory in St. Louis, personally
drove the car to the Penske race shop in Pennsylvania, and oversaw
the disassembly and race preparation of the car... he oversaw the
work done on the L88 engine that the car rolled out of the plant with
and the additional motor that went in the car after qualifying that
was used during the Daytona race... Guldstrands right down the street
friends in Culver City, Ca at Traco Engineering prepared the race L-88.
I had a 30 minute or so conversation with Dick Guldstrand about this
2 plus years ago.. but to my later regret, did not record
the conversation. I called his race shop not expecting to be able
to talk with him and began having a conversation with his secretary
on the information I was after ....when she stumbled a little on
the information I was after- to my surprise Guldstrand got on the line.
Kevin McKay currently owns the '66 Daytona class winner.. He
also visited with Guldstrand and Confered the exact story Guldstrand relayed to me when I spoke with McKay extensively over
about 2 weeks time.... both on the phone, and through emails.
If you are looking for Traditional Corvette documentation in the form
of GM documentation I think you will hit a dead end....
Remember that 1967 model Corvettes began being built in the later months of 1966...
It is my belief that this fact is how Duntov got around the documentation issues and requirements with the Daytona 24hr sanctioning body. The '66 Penske car raced in a Production based
class.
I have had plenty of would be doubters throw sand in the air
when I reported these things here on this forum thumping their GM documentation books.... but none of them took the time, as I did, to call Guldstrand to verify or disprove my
report... I did then, and still do now invite a Guldstrand conversation
test performed by any member here.
I've also had quite a few people tell me "That's just not how GM or
Zora operated"..... Usually these objections are made by people who
sail right past the obvious reality and authenticity of the Grand Sport
Corvettes.... there are documentary historical films of Zora describing getting his hand slapped by GM brass over the Grand Sports that he had
built quietly. near secretly/certainly out of view of project squelchers with a good bit of "paper shuffling" in 1963....
Yet, while they will recognize the behind the scenes activity that
went on to get the Grand Sports built... they absolutely shriek at
the suggestion that an L88 engine could be slipped between the rails
of Production Corvette in St. Louis in 1966, 3 years later, and just a few months before RPO documented 1967cars were built... to be put in the hands of a Grand Sport owner/driver.... Roger Penske, so that he could have an edge in winning some publicity for GM and the Corvette in a well publicized National Level Roadrace.,,, this seems to be a double standard in my view.
I suppose their reasoning is that
1.Zora would build 5 racecars in secret..... but..
2. Would never dream of getting an engine to a racer who needed
it in an unconventional way by shipping it out the factory doors
in a Corvette.
If you are strictly looking for RPO documentation... I think you would
be hard pressed to find any on a '66 model.... I do not, however, believe that the Documented '67 L88 RPO cars were the first
Corvettes to roll out of the assembly line doors with an L88 under
the hood.... I believe the Penske/Guldstrand Daytona car was.
Perhaps if John Neas runs into Guldstrand again at a historical
event we could entice him to quiz Dick Guldstrand on the '66
Daytona car and report his findings back here.
Last edited by KyleDallas; 03-22-2008 at 07:06 PM.
03-22-2008, 06:56 PM
#7
03-22-2008, 06:59 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
03-22-2008, 07:18 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Pat;
<<<Snip>>> He never was one to boast or brag about his cars as he never even mentioned them to anyone, he was always more interested in the problem you were having with your Corvette. Until now not many new of this man or his cars.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by matts vettes : Today at 03:39 PM.
- Pat
03-22-2008, 07:23 PM
#10
Garner and Guldstrand are at this site:
http://www.airl88.com/
Kevin McKay, the owner of the '66 Daytona/Penske L88... his site:
http://www.corvetterepair.com/penske.htm
McKay restored the car in it's Sunoco Blue/Colors...which it wore after
the Daytona race... at Daytona it was wearing Red... the pic
in my avitar is the Penske/L88 car at Daytona in 1966.
http://www.airl88.com/
Kevin McKay, the owner of the '66 Daytona/Penske L88... his site:
http://www.corvetterepair.com/penske.htm
McKay restored the car in it's Sunoco Blue/Colors...which it wore after
the Daytona race... at Daytona it was wearing Red... the pic
in my avitar is the Penske/L88 car at Daytona in 1966.
03-22-2008, 07:49 PM
#11
Kyle
I posted a current picture of the 66 L-88 on 3-17-2008 under the title Amelia Island 2008 Part 2. If someone is computer/forum savy maybe they can bring the individual picture to this thread. Its currently on page 4.
Regards
I posted a current picture of the 66 L-88 on 3-17-2008 under the title Amelia Island 2008 Part 2. If someone is computer/forum savy maybe they can bring the individual picture to this thread. Its currently on page 4.
Regards
03-22-2008, 08:11 PM
#12
Kyle
I have heard the story, first person, by Guldstrand several times. If my memory is correct the factory workers were glad to get the car off their hands. Wouldn't start and run easily. Also because the weather was cold and with no heater made the trip east chilly. Bet Dick had a smile on his face the entire trip.
Regards
I have heard the story, first person, by Guldstrand several times. If my memory is correct the factory workers were glad to get the car off their hands. Wouldn't start and run easily. Also because the weather was cold and with no heater made the trip east chilly. Bet Dick had a smile on his face the entire trip.
Regards
03-22-2008, 08:33 PM
#14
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Curiosity is getting the best of me. There is another thread in the Forum that I posted this question in, but haven't had any feedback. It was the thread about the stolen Sunfire Yellow 66 in Topeka. I found the publication posted, at the bottom of my thread, on the Topeka Police website at this link:
http://www.topekacrimestoppers.com/crimes.html
I had thought that the L88 Option was first available with the 1967 model year!!!??? The car reported stolen was a 1966. Can this truly be a "one of a kind Corporate Office Production Order"???
Or am I mistaken and the L88 was available in 66?
The Crime Stoppers Post is 'Cut' & 'Pasted' hereunder. - Pat
http://www.topekacrimestoppers.com/crimes.html
I had thought that the L88 Option was first available with the 1967 model year!!!??? The car reported stolen was a 1966. Can this truly be a "one of a kind Corporate Office Production Order"???
Or am I mistaken and the L88 was available in 66?
The Crime Stoppers Post is 'Cut' & 'Pasted' hereunder. - Pat
03-22-2008, 09:37 PM
#15
Kyle
You are talking about RPO documentation after 42 years. Let me vent on a similar car. I have a St Louis built 56 SR. In the last 10 years I have been given or obtained.
(1)contemporary magazine articles stating available options
(2)original cancelled check
(3)original invoice
(4)engineering build order
(5)original RPO workpapers (some pages handwritten)
(6)complete RPO listing
(7)some factory blueprints
(8)all parts have production part numbers
(9)original owners card and pin
Yet at least one "expert" refuses to recognize the car as a production car. Thanks for listening.
Regards
You are talking about RPO documentation after 42 years. Let me vent on a similar car. I have a St Louis built 56 SR. In the last 10 years I have been given or obtained.
(1)contemporary magazine articles stating available options
(2)original cancelled check
(3)original invoice
(4)engineering build order
(5)original RPO workpapers (some pages handwritten)
(6)complete RPO listing
(7)some factory blueprints
(8)all parts have production part numbers
(9)original owners card and pin
Yet at least one "expert" refuses to recognize the car as a production car. Thanks for listening.
Regards
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03-22-2008, 11:00 PM
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John is somewhat modest and holding back some information about his 56 SR1 car, so I'll chime in here on his behalf.
With all this documentation that John has accumulated for the small handful of 56 SR cars (even Ken Kayser in his new book relates the time frame when these few cars were assembled at St. Louis), NCRS has denied accepting his IMMACULATELY restored SR1 for Flight judging.
As a result, NCRS has essentially shot themselves in the foot, because they do not get to enjoy any of John's unique early Vettes at any of the NCRS events.
By the way, I have personally seen all of the above documentation that John mentioned.
Here is some of it.
With all this documentation that John has accumulated for the small handful of 56 SR cars (even Ken Kayser in his new book relates the time frame when these few cars were assembled at St. Louis), NCRS has denied accepting his IMMACULATELY restored SR1 for Flight judging.
As a result, NCRS has essentially shot themselves in the foot, because they do not get to enjoy any of John's unique early Vettes at any of the NCRS events.
By the way, I have personally seen all of the above documentation that John mentioned.
Here is some of it.
Last edited by DZAUTO; 03-23-2008 at 08:11 AM.
03-22-2008, 11:20 PM
#19
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Kyle
You are talking about RPO documentation after 42 years. Let me vent on a similar car. I have a St Louis built 56 SR. In the last 10 years I have been given or obtained.
(1)contemporary magazine articles stating available options
(2)original cancelled check
(3)original invoice
(4)engineering build order
(5)original RPO workpapers (some pages handwritten)
(6)complete RPO listing
(7)some factory blueprints
(8)all parts have production part numbers
(9)original owners card and pin
Yet at least one "expert" refuses to recognize the car as a production car. Thanks for listening.
Regards
You are talking about RPO documentation after 42 years. Let me vent on a similar car. I have a St Louis built 56 SR. In the last 10 years I have been given or obtained.
(1)contemporary magazine articles stating available options
(2)original cancelled check
(3)original invoice
(4)engineering build order
(5)original RPO workpapers (some pages handwritten)
(6)complete RPO listing
(7)some factory blueprints
(8)all parts have production part numbers
(9)original owners card and pin
Yet at least one "expert" refuses to recognize the car as a production car. Thanks for listening.
Regards
John is somewhat modest and holding back some information about his 56 SR1 car, so I'll chime in here on his behalf.
With all this documentation that John has accumulated for the small handful of 56 SR cars (even Ken Kayser in his new book relates the time frame when thes few cars were assembled at St. Louis), NCRS has denied accepting his IMMACULATELY restored SR1 for Flight judging.
As a result, NCRS has essentially shot themselves in the foot, because they do not get to enjoy any of John's unique early Vettes at any of the NCRS events.
By the way, I have personally seen all of the above documentation that John mentioned. <<<Snip>>>
With all this documentation that John has accumulated for the small handful of 56 SR cars (even Ken Kayser in his new book relates the time frame when thes few cars were assembled at St. Louis), NCRS has denied accepting his IMMACULATELY restored SR1 for Flight judging.
As a result, NCRS has essentially shot themselves in the foot, because they do not get to enjoy any of John's unique early Vettes at any of the NCRS events.
By the way, I have personally seen all of the above documentation that John mentioned. <<<Snip>>>
Wow! What an amazing story John and Tom. Thanks for sharing a bit of history with us.
- Pat
03-23-2008, 05:35 AM
#20
Melting Slicks
With KyleDallas. I talked to Dick in PA. We where standing in front of Kevin Mackays 66. What would Dick have to gain by making this up? Also there was an RPO# in 66 for the L88. It's in the AIM. I copied the eng. details from Kevins car for my GS roadster. I talked to Kevin early one moring when he was pulling the cover off the car. He let me take very detailed pics. Heres two pics. The first is Kevins car the second is my car. I had to make the hood and air box for this car.
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