coco1960

Interested to know anyone's thoughts on this car mecum are selling - purports to be 1960 315hp originally now with a 245. i thought the 315s were never produced and sold. anyone care to comment?

http://www.mecumauction.com/auctions...08_Lot8_082208

MikeM

I remember that only a few were built with the aluminum heads. I also remember the engines were changed over to iron heads. All of them? I doubt it. There are some of these heads floating around in private hands now.

Nice write up on the car but that doesn't have squat to do with what the car used to (maybe) be.

I'm sure one of the resident historians has the story.

DZAUTO

The reasons and details are numerous, but originally, the 315hp/283 with alum heads was SCHEDULED for 60 production.
After all these years, it is now accepted that they were NOT produced. Consequently, the 60s with the solid lifter FI engine received essentially the identical 290hp engine of 59 vintage. As of now, NCRS has done an excellent and thorough job (they REALLY are good for something most of the time) of researching and documenting this.
Thus, based on all the information/documentation that I'm aware of, NO, the 315hp/283 DID NOT get installed until the 61 models. AND, the 61 315hp FI engines had iron, NOT alum heads. They were the 461 X castings with about 60cc chambers and 1.94/1.5in valves. This item alone is a key feature of the 315hp engines. I've never seen or known of a 461 X production head with a casting date prior to Aug 60. So, for a 60 315hp engine to be legit, it would at the VERY LEAST have to have 461 X heads dated somewhere between Sep 59 and Aug 60!!!!! I don't think they exist.

IF, IF, IF ANY 315hp 1960 cars were produced, as of this date, NONE have surfaced with credible documentation.

Now, that doesn't mean that someone couldn't have built a correct 315hp version and installed it in a 60 (I'm certainly all for more go power), but it wasn't done in 1960 at the St. Louis plant.

C1 driver

What about this one? It was at NCRS Boston last year. Look at the pictures of the documentation.
http://www.vintagecorvettes.com/1960big.html

MikeM

[QUOTE=DZAUTO; NO, the 315hp/283 DID NOT get installed until the 61models.

It was my understanding in 1960 (not 2008) that a few were built. Maybe none sold. Maybe they were but the ALUMINUM HEADS were changed out to the like cast iron heads.



AND, the 61 315hp FI engines had iron, NOT alum heads.


Are you implying that the 1960 315 wasn't intended for alumium heads? I agree the '61 engine certainly had iron heads.

DZAUTO

Haven't seen that one, and it very well may be legitimate. If the NCRS judges were satisfied with its ligitimacy, then it must be.
I notice it is a May car, which is fairly late in production for 60. Maybe by then, there were a few cars built with a 315hp engine. But as requested in Noland Adams' letter, I'd be curious to see some things also, such as dates and end symbols on the heads. NCRS does not require valve covers to be removed to check casting numbers/dates, sooooooooooooooooo, if the valve covers were removed, what would be revealed?
If in fact this is a ligit 1960 315hp car------------THAT WOULD BE GREAT!!!!!

jim lockwood

The claim made for this car is that it has its original engine. Izzzat so? Well, the "original" engine has the "CS" build code which is the code for the 283/290 engine. An original, aluminum head, 1960 283/315 ought to have a "CZ" suffix, or so I've been led to believe all these years.

Also, what about that head casting number, 3774692? As I recall, that's a small valve, iron, single pyramid, power pak head. It's darned sure not one of the rare aluminum heads.

This is:



Bottom line for me is that I can't correlate what's documented on the picture of notes on the web page with the footnote in Noland's book about this being a 315 car. There's a disconnect there somehow.

Jim

DZAUTO

Jim,
I like the way you said that------------------I was trying to be very polite.

Mike,
In the beginning, when God created the hea--------------no, no, no, that's another story.
In the beginning, yes, alum heads were planned for the 1960 FI engines. But because of casting and porosity problems, it didn't happen.
Soooooooooooooooooooo, did ANY 1960 FI Vettes receive alum heads??????? That has been kicked around and debated since the Civil War, and, the generally accepted concensus is, NO, it didn't happen--------------------BUT IT'S STILL DEBATED!
Consequently, does Tom Parsons have the gospel answer? HECK NO!
Does he have an opinion? HECK YES! No, it didn't happen.

jim lockwood

Ah, Tom, that's the difference between you and me. No one ever accused me of being polite.

Jim

DZAUTO

Oh ya, I forgot to mention, as Jim did, the 3774692 head doesn't fit as a 315hp head-------------as I had alluded to up above.
TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING, IT'S GOT TO HAVE A 461 X HEAD AS PART OF THE 315pkg. The 692 head, with the smaller valves, just won't flow enough because the intakes are 1.72in compared to the 1.94in valves of the 461 X heads.
And again, as I already said, this issue continues to be debated.
So, how could a person possibly know? I guess you would have to have been on the St Louis line ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL day, EVERY day and personally look at EVERY single 1960 FI engine as it came down the line and Check to see if its heads were alum or iron.

MikeM

[QUOTE=DZAUTO;TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING, IT'S GOT TO HAVE A 461 X HEAD AS PART OF THE 315pkg. The 692 head, with the smaller valves, just won't flow enough because the intakes are 1.72in compared to the 1.94in valves of the 461 X heads.


Actually, I never stated the aluminum heads were ever installed on "sold" units. I merely said that the aluminum heads were going to be part of the 315 horse package for 1960 but that part of the package was cancelled. The cast iron heads were NOT part of the program. The other aluminum parts to be released new for 1960 was the aluminum radiator and bellhousing. Maybe even the transmission tailshaft.

In addition, I believe the 461X heads are a direct cast iron copy of the intended 1960 aluminum heads.

I don't believe there are any legitimate 315 horse, factory built 1960 Vettes out there. But I don't know.

I

DZAUTO

The transmission (4sp) tail HOUSING (NOT shaft) was always alum.

Ironcross

This is a real 315 FI and the serial number is 102480. A November 15 1960 delivery and by coincidence it was also my birthday present. Ordered and presumed to have aluminum heads, it didn`t. Cast iron heads was on the car. No reason was ever provided why it came in that way. I have it in the C-1 registry.

jim lockwood

When you placed the order, did you see sales literature that mentioned aluminum heads for the '61 model year? I've never, ever seen anything to suggest that GM planned to offer them in '61, but you just never know....

All of the aluminum heads I've seen, and believe me there are actually a lot of them "out there", all have the same casting date of 6-24-59, including mine in the photo above. I've never seen any other date.

That would lead me to believe GM had no plans to try again in '61.

Jim

MikeM

thank you for pointing out the obvious ommision!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:d

carguy611

New member need help!
I have a 61 315 hp that was made in april of 1961. Looking for a set of 461x heads , Any help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

desertpilgrim

The 3 Cunningham cars all raced at Le Mans with motors built by Chevrolet AFTER each of the cars were produced, per Le Mans Tech Inspection records. One of the cars had a CZ block (from March 1960) but ran with cast iron heads. Given the $$$ that Chevrolet threw at Cunningham.......and they didn't use aluminum heads.....
About 10 years ago at the RM auction in AZ, a '60 was presented with aluminum heads for auction. I asked the friend of the owner who was presenting the car about the car's history. He responded "He took it in on trade on a phoney L88 he sold.".
As to the Duntov award winner presented in the thread, I don't know Mr. Burelli. But I recognize the name as one currently partnered with one Domenico Idoni in litigation over the purported Cunningham #1 Le Mans car.

Easy Rhino

Wow, that's the stuff dreams are made of. I've never even seen a fuelie of that model year.

vettebuyer6369

If you are looking for heads, please make a WTB post in the Parts For Sale/Wanted section, thanks.

66jack

Here's a pair on ebay...$$$$$

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-1962-62-Corvette-461X-461-Cylinder-Heads-Feb-Date-Tested-Good-B-21-2-B-26-2/380965234837?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D31190%26meid%3Dec9a7811732245099409e502adafb309%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D361276345690&rt=nc