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Borg Warner T5 In A 59

 
Old 08-23-2009, 01:10 AM
  #21  
silverslashstreak
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolSS View Post
I want to tackle this project over the winter. I thought I had read that a there was a way to make a hybrid gm/ford t-5 that didn't require any special bell housing and had the shifter come up in the right position...
There are a lot of people that use the Ford T5.

1. The shifter location is about 1.25 inchs forward of the GM version which makes it come out in the middle of the stock location.

2. They are more readily available on Ebay or local junk yards.

3. Speedo drive is in easier location to access.

4. Pretty simple to make 1/2 inch plate so trans will bolt right up to stock corvette bell housing, then you don't have to redesign the clutch pedal linkage.

Problems

1. You have to use a ford closed ended slip yoke making drive shaft install harder.

2. Building a plate to mate the trans to the bell housing requiring exacting fabrication.

3. It is sort of a Ford part

Jeff
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Old 08-23-2009, 02:14 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by OCS1667 View Post
I'm not sure what you are planing to gain with a term like hybrid, are you taking about an adaptor to some how join one type of a trans. to another bell-housing to avoid the clocking of the trans. I'm not sure what you would gain along with the extra expense, and for what gain.

The Ford T-5 may have a different dimension from the front mounting point to the shifting point. Goggle T-5 transmission, and see if that is so.

The length of the transmission, and the distance of the shifting point limit the adapter thickness. The slightest amount moves the shift point farther back. I was able to create a dog leg to over come a slight problem, adding more distance would create additional problems. One major problem I'm sure never crossed most minds is the vibrations you will incur. By playing around with the above mentioned ways to defeat the clocking you may not be able to raise the transmission enough to eliminate this problem because of the cars design limitations. It may be different on a C-1, and that's fine, but a C-2 with independent suspension is another story. I had to remove material from under beneath my shifting counsel to gain the mechanical degrees to eliminate vibration. In the photo below I cut the shifter below the body of the car and added the dog leg to shift into reverse You have to shift to the right and down for reverse. Jeff approached the same problem, and solved it by welding an adaptor plate onto the shifter.

I mentioned earlier send me your phone or I'll send you mine on a PM. I'm more then happy to share what I know, and then you can take it from there.


No adapter plate, I believe the idea was to use a GM input shaft and a couple other pieces and everything else was to ford parts. I think a member called 5speeds posted the info.
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Old 08-23-2009, 10:02 AM
  #23  
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My friend and I have do0ne a little research on the GM T-5.
The "World Class " T-5 uses Auto. Trans fluid.
The "Non-World Class" does not. Weather this is a consideration, I do not know.
I am still trying to find a , ready to go GM T-5 , either World Class or Non. A question for the fellow who got his on e-bay for $175.00.
That sounds like an unbelievable deal. Will it need rebuilding?
Also , I have a PG in my 63 right now . As I understand it, the GTM T-5 usually comes with the shifter attached. Would I still need to work on changing something underneath with the shifter.?
Thanks for your patience with a mechanical dummie
Jeff
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Old 08-23-2009, 10:35 AM
  #24  
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Here is a good link to the differences in GM and Ford T5s and installing the ford T5.

I hope the link works

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...onversion.html

Jeff
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:09 PM
  #25  
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Jeff,

I'm the guy who bought a T5 on ebay for $175. I've been looking for one for about a year. This one fina. It finally popped up with a buy-it-now price - and it was the right one, so I jumped on it. The one I got is TAG # 196, which has a .63 overdrive - just right for my 4:11 rear. The tranny was very dirty, and I've taken it apart and do plan on a mild rebuild, but it looks very clean inside and in very good shape. Guess I got lucky.

Good luck with your search!!!

Tom
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:42 PM
  #26  
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I'm very passionate about this upgrade to my car. This along with the jeep box that Jeff Silverslash recommend, are everything he said they would be. I have had such positive results from his guidance, with one exception his install on the trans. I would call him and tell him I had to do this our that, and he would agree and tell me he also ran into that problem and resolved it. All I want to do as he did for me is eliminate the BS that some of those out there are experts on and have not done the deed so to speak.

Both trans. World and non use auto. trans. fluid.
I paid $350. for non world and bell housing. + 200. to make sure it was ok and that included new seals, no leaks so far.
There is not a big difference except for the speedometer take off, non is a mech., and world is elect.
You'll have to build a new transmission mount to except the new trans., and to get the right angle to avoid vibration which you will have.
I'm not an expert just trying to help those how want to do this avoid the pitfalls I ran into.
Dennis
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Old 08-23-2009, 06:51 PM
  #27  
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I really appreciate all of this valuable information guys. I'm trying to get as much as I can before I start this. Nothing worse than wasting money and time buying the wrong stuff or spend time doing things only to find out you've done something that won't work. I thought if I could use my existing bell housing that would be preferable. As far as the shifter location, I can do the modification as shown in this and other threads. It was mentioned in one of the posts that one could use an aluminum bell housing from a 78-82 4 speed car. What would that come out of? Dennis, you said you posted a photo of the boss that has to be modified. Where can I find that?
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Old 08-23-2009, 07:21 PM
  #28  
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Tom & OCS 1667
Please don't think I'm trying to hijack the thread. Just had simular questions on same subject.
Your info. is very much appreciated.
When I change out , I will have a PG with all acessories for sale ( except shifter).
Thanks
Jeff
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Old 08-23-2009, 07:30 PM
  #29  
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Lynn, I believe if you go to my posts [ ocs1667 ] somewhere around Aug of last year you'll find it. I went there, and found it, with all the photos showing the material removed from the trans, and the bell housing, along with other shots of the project.
Dennis

No problem Jeff, I still have the 4-speed with all the hdwe for sale.
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Old 08-24-2009, 02:39 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by lynns59 View Post
I really appreciate all of this valuable information guys. I'm trying to get as much as I can before I start this. Nothing worse than wasting money and time buying the wrong stuff or spend time doing things only to find out you've done something that won't work. I thought if I could use my existing bell housing that would be preferable. As far as the shifter location, I can do the modification as shown in this and other threads. It was mentioned in one of the posts that one could use an aluminum bell housing from a 78-82 4 speed car. What would that come out of? Dennis, you said you posted a photo of the boss that has to be modified. Where can I find that?
The '78-82 bell housing should come out of a Camaro or Firebird (using a Chevy 305). Regarding putting a T5 in a C1, I would strongly recommend sticking with GM applications. The problems I encountered when putting the GM WC T5 in my '56 were really minor. If you wanted to retain the C1 shifter plate then go with some of the suggestions above. My other project, a '54 Hudson Hornet, is going to get a non-WC S10 T5, a weaker transmission but with an ideal shifter location. That will be a far more complex installation!
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Old 08-25-2009, 09:45 PM
  #31  
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I think I read somewhere and maybe it wasn't this forum, that there was a difference in the length of the input shaft in the T5's that were put in a V6 Camaro/Firebird. Does anybody know if this is true?
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Old 08-26-2009, 09:03 AM
  #32  
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Not sure about the input shaft (I think they're the same) . . . but you want to stay away from a V6 T5 because the gear ratio's - first gear in a V6 T5 is normally 4.03 vs 2.95 for the V8. Similarly, second gear in the V6 unit is 2.37 vs 1.94. V6 gears are all wrong, especially if you have a rear end higher than a 3.36. Hope this helps.
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Old 08-26-2009, 08:54 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Tom Austin View Post
Not sure about the input shaft (I think they're the same) . . . but you want to stay away from a V6 T5 because the gear ratio's - first gear in a V6 T5 is normally 4.03 vs 2.95 for the V8. Similarly, second gear in the V6 unit is 2.37 vs 1.94. V6 gears are all wrong, especially if you have a rear end higher than a 3.36. Hope this helps.
Oh yeah, I forgot about the first gear ratio. That's one thing I don't want is a the first gear. I'll stick with looking for one out of a V8. I haven't had any luck yet. Every salvage yard I've called within 100 miles of where I live says the same thing. "We don't have one and have not in a long time."
I really didn't think it would be that hard to find one. I'll keep looking. Ones bound to turn up sooner or later.
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Old 08-26-2009, 09:26 PM
  #34  
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Keep looking . . . they're out there and you will find the right one for your application. I've bid on a few on ebay over the past few months before i got mine. Just make sure it's a V8 application - all of them should have the 2.95 first gear, and either a .73 or .63 overdrive fifth. Good luck!!!
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:31 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by lynns59 View Post
Oh yeah, I forgot about the first gear ratio. That's one thing I don't want is a the first gear. I'll stick with looking for one out of a V8. I haven't had any luck yet. Every salvage yard I've called within 100 miles of where I live says the same thing. "We don't have one and have not in a long time."
I really didn't think it would be that hard to find one. I'll keep looking. Ones bound to turn up sooner or later.
Not only are the gear ratios different, the v6 unit is not as strong as the v8 trans.

jeff
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:02 PM
  #36  
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There's a GM T5 on ebay this morning that would work . . . TAG # 176 - with a .63 fifth gear . . .

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHEVY...=p4506.c0.m245

Happy bidding!!!
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:00 PM
  #37  
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I have a 85' Camaro/Firebird V8 Non-WC T5 & Bell housing that I'm looking to sell. Mechanical Speedo hook-up.

Email me at [email protected] if interested.

George




Last edited by Black_Magic; 08-28-2009 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:59 PM
  #38  
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Well my T5 that I bought off Ebay arrived today. So begins the chore of swapping it out. It came with everything. Bell housing, shifter, flywheel, pressure plate, and dust cover. It also came with a clutch and throw out bearing but I'll be getting new ones maybe. It seems that most every body sells those in a kit complete with pressure plate, alignment tool, and pilot bushing. The pressure plate seems good. This T5 came out of an 1986 IROC Camaro. Maybe it won't be too bad of a project.
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Old 09-05-2009, 05:37 PM
  #39  
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Well bad news. Today I cleaned up the T5 I bought. I decided to take the tail housing off and the top cover as well. It seemed to me the input and output shafts had to much play. There was good reason for that. There is a shim that goes between the tail housing and the rear main shaft bearing that keeps the bearing cup pushed in tight. Well it was wadded up and laying in the housing which explains the excessive shaft play. Other than that everything in that area is fine. Now is the bad part of the story. The third gear on the cluster gear has a tooth chipped completely off Also, the gear in the input shaft has three teeth chipped with one being pretty bad. Again Other that that the rest of the transmission is fine. I guess I should have bought that one from you Black_Magic. I bought it off Ebay and it wasn't an "As Is" listing. In fact he offered a refund. So I've emailed him and told him about the problems and offered him one of two choices. I can either send the whole thing back or he can refund some money to cover another cluster and input shaft. I don't suppose any of you have either of these two items for an 86 NWC T5 from a Chevy V8 Camaro do you?
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Old 09-05-2009, 06:29 PM
  #40  
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Upon further inspection the piece of stray metal was not a shim between the rear output shaft bearing and the tail housing. It was what is left of the thrust washer between the first speed gear and the cone of the bearing. I guess it worked it's way back into the tail housing. It keeps the cone pushed tight in the cup and the tail housing holds the cup. All that being said, with the cup of the rear bearing pushed in tight there is little play in the shafts and everything turns real smooth. If it weren't for the broke tooth on the cluster gear I would replace that thrust washer, put new seals in it and run it. I don't think the little chips on the input cog would cause any problems since it is 4th gear. They're not really that bad.
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