lynns59

Well I finally solved the clutch problem The way I had the extension ear welded on the clutch arm it wasn't putting equal pressure on the top and bottom of the throw out bearing and it was causing a binding issue. Instead of it coming out in the center of the clutch arm I had it angled toward the top of the arm to clear the exhaust pipe. I didn't think it would matter but it did. It was putting more pressure at the top of the arm than the bottom causing it to bind. Also moved the linkage rod back up to the original hole on the cross bar which is about 1 3/4" below the bar and this softened it up just like Dennis and Jeff said. The clutch still has a quick feeling release which will probably improve the more use it gets. Anyway, transmission is all bolted up and now I have to modify the exhaust pipe to clear the clutch arm. As soon as that gets done and I put some new mufflers on I intend to take it for a spin and test everything out before putting the interior back together.

lynns59

Well today was the first test drive with the T5. It shifts out really good and I don't even have any drive line vibrations. But, it has an annoying low pitched whine at idle that goes away when the clutch is pushed in. Actually it doesn't have to be pushed all the way in to make it stop, just some pressure on the pedal. Mash the gas pedal and the sound speeds up. I guess it's either the front bearing or the new input shaft gear and new cluster gear. I didn't replace the front or rear main bearing as they looked fine. Surely new gears wouldn't do that would they? Anyone here have any ideas? I guess I'll be pulling the transmission out. AGAIN!!!!!

Plasticman

Make sure your throw out bearing is not touching (has sufficient free play). Have heard TO bearings make that same sound when just spinning, but noise goes away when loaded (clutch pedal depressed).

As you mentioned, could also be input shaft bearing or gears, but gears typically will make a different (unique) sound as the individual teeth make/break contact. Bearings on the other hand can be very irregular in sound too (depends on where in the bearing is the defect).

Plasticman

silverslashstreak

Congrats on finishing up your T5 install Lynn. As for the noise at idle, mine has always made a little noise at idle in neutral ever since I installed it, and just like yours it goes away with a little clutch pressure, but it doesn't bother me since it rarely is in that position. I think I probably have about 40000 miles on it now with no problems and it was a 350.00 junk yard deal that has never been a part.

Jeff

OCS1667

See, we told you it was a easy fix, and that you would really enjoy it. As far as that noise, I have not experienced that, mine is dead quiet.
Have you had it on the highway where you can really appreciate the 5th gear. I'm always telling my self how smooth that shift was, and how solid it felt, subconsciously that is, I don't want anyone to think I'm not all there.

Stay in touch.
Dennis

lynns59

Well I thought I would give an update on this. I pulled the transmission back out and replaced the front and rear main bearings as well as the input thrust bearing and washer. I modified the clutch linkage rod, again, which improved the feel of the clutch some more. It feels really good now. The noise at idle is still there but not as bad. I think it's those new gears and it will probably go away when they get worn together. All of the interior is back together, carpet and all. If you didn't know it, you would never have a clue that the tunnel was raised. The only thing it likes is a shifter boot which will probably have to be made by an upholstery shop. I also have to get the speedometer worked out as it's about 10 mph off. It sure was a lot of trouble, time, and work but I believe it was worth it. It really dropped the rpm's cruising down the road which is better on the old 327.

lynns59

Well I've been driving the car some since the T5 swap and I still don't like the clutch. It's not that it's too stiff, it's just that it has too quick of a release. You can't just ease out on it like a normal clutch. It just releases all at once. It's either engaged or disengaged, there is no in between and I can't keep driving it like it is. The pressure plate is a Borg Warner OEM replacement for a 86 Camaro which had a hydraulic setup. I've wondered if a pressure plate for an older Chevy like from the 60's to middle 70's would feel any different? I know it's still a diaphragm type plate but they're made a little different. The 86 Camaro plates fingers really curve up to the middle while the older plates are fairly flat. Another difference between the T5 bell housing and an older one is the location of the clutch fork pivot ball. On an older bell housing the ball is very close to the middle hole while the T5 housing has it further away which means the arm pivots in a different place. I wonder if this could be the cause of this? I'd consider a change to a hydraulic clutch if that's what it takes. Right now it sucks and something has to change. I hate to spend money on another clutch kit just to get another pressure plate, tear everything back out, swap out the plate, and not make any difference. Any ideas?

wmf62

John Z said in a post the other day that all corvettes used the bent-finger diaphragm clutch and passenger cars used the flat-fingered...
Bill

lynns59

I was running an 11" clutch and pressure plate with a cast iron bell housing and an M21 Muncie. The fingers on the pressure plate were more flat and the clutch was very smooth. Of course the clutch fork pivot was closer to the input shaft than the T5 bell housing.

wmf62

assuming you haven't changed your clutch pedal from regular to quick release; clutch release is pure geometry... z-bar pivot arm length and the fulcrum/pivot length of the throwout bearing fork are the only variables in a clutch's release/engagement. compare your original dimensions with your present dimensions and i think you will see where the difference/problem lies.
Bill

lynns59

I'm thinking about changing over to a hydraulic setup now. I don't think there is anything I can do different with the linkage. Pushing the clutch pedal in isn't a problem now. It was at the beginning but I kept working with the linkage and fixed that. The problem is letting the clutch out. It releases all at once instead of gradually and it makes for a pain in the **** to drive. I had thought about getting a different pressure plate, maybe one for an older Chevy, and see if that made any difference but that's a lot of trouble. Of course changing over to a hydraulic is too. I don't understand why it's so quick to release. If it wasn't for making it easier to line up the shifter with the original hole in the tunnel, I wouldn't have used the rotated bell housing from the Camaro. I would have just used an older Chevy bell housing.

lynns59

Well it's been a while since I posted anything on this and I need help. I've just finished putting a hydraulic clutch setup on the Vette and it's worse. I used an 84-85 C4 Vette clutch master and slave cylinder since it would allow me to make a line for it. I used a Russel universal brake/clutch hose with a banjo fitting on one end and a -3AN fitting on the other. Then I used a -3AN to 1/4-20UNF inverted flare adapter and a 6mm brake line with a bubble flare on one end then I had to use a 1/4-20 brake line nut and double flare that end to fit the adapter. I also made a mounting bracket out of 3/16" steel to mount the slave cylinder. I have the bracket mounted to the two bell housing bolts on that side. It all looks good and went together very well. The problem is that the damn clutch pedal is so stiff you can barely push it in. I don't understand! I wasn't this stiff with the linkage but as I said before, you couldn't drive it because the clutch engaged all at once when you let out on it. In the beginning the pedal was way too stiff and I was told the reason was geometry so I played around with the linkage but couldn't get it to work right. So I switched to a hydraulic setup which takes the linkage geometry out of the equation. I have the slave cylinder mounted right where the original Camaro unit mounted before I cut the bracket off the bell housing. Why in the crap is this thing so stiff? It's an OEM replacement pressure plate that is identical to the one that came with the transmission. The guy I bought the T5 from sent it with it. As a matter of fact, toward the start of this project I switched them out and put it in there just to rule out a problem with the new one. It felt exactly the same. I'm fairly certain a new 86 Camaro clutch wasn't this damn stiff. What could possibly be the problem. I don't know what to do at this point aside from tearing it all out an putting the 4 speed and all back in because I can't even drive it like it is. I've spent a lot of time and money on this and I like the 5 speed but the clutch sucks. You would think I had a high performance racing pressure plate or something. I've drove big trucks with a softer one than this. Would a pressure plate for an older Chevrolet be any different than this one? As best as I can tell nothing is binding and the throwout bearing slides back and forth on the shaft freely. It's got to be the pressure plate. Any ideas?

This is the clutch kit I have.

http://shop.carolinaclutchandconvert...categoryId=177

CrCrzy

Do you have pictures of the extension arm you made for your clutch fork?

I have a 1975 Corvette that I installed a T-5 in. On this car I used a conventional Corvette bellhousing and clutch fork and modified a transmission mount to compensate for the angle of the transmission. The clutch and pressure plate were ordered for a 1992 Camaro so it would match up to my 1 piece rear 350.

I also have a 1963 Corvette that I installed a T-5 in. On this car I used the angled Camaro bellhousing and my installation looks very much like SilverSlashStreak's. I made an extension bracket for the Camaro clutch fork to give me additional mechanical leverage. The clutch and pressure plate were ordered for a 1985 Camaro so it would match up to my 2 piece rear 350.

Between the two cars, the 1975 Corvette's clutch pressure is way easier. The 1963 Corvette's clutch pressure is not bad by any means, but the 1975 Corvette's clutch seems easier to push. I would imagine that the pressure plates from a 1985 and 1992 Camaro would be similar if not exactly the same as they both were hydraulically actuated in stock form. Therefore the only differences between the two set ups would be the clutch forks.

Before you abandon the 5 spd. why don't you try to use the 4 spd bellhousing and clutch fork. I know you will have to make another transmission mount but at least you will be using the stock clutch geometry. That can at least isolate the pressure of your current pressure plate and let you know if it is comparable to stock in both pressure and release rate. If you don't want to make another transmission mount, you can always temporarily support the transmission and engine so you can press the clutch pedal to test the pressure.

I hope this helps, sorry for the long post.

lynns59

Well the reason I went with the T5 bell housing is so the shifter would get closer to the original shift hole and I could use the original bezel. That way it still looks stock. If not for that I would have just used the bell housing I had. I did add some length to the arm but it didn't help a lot. The big difference in one of these bell housings and an old one, other than the 17 degree rotation is where the clutch arm pivot ball is located. If they had left them alone and kept them close to the center hole you would have more leverage. Instead they moved them over so the center of the arm is where it pivots. I may have a solution I'm in the process of trying. It has been mentioned to me on a couple of other forums that pedal ratio may be the problem. I'm told it needs to be 6:1 or the pedal will be stiff. So I checked it out and I'm not even at 1:1. The plunger rod and for that matter, the original linkage is close to the middle of the pedal arm. It would need to be about 2" from the pedal pivot to get 6:1. I've looked at some newer vehicles with hydraulic clutches and they're about 2" from the pedal pivot. It supposed to give you a lot more leverage on the pedal. I never thought of that before but it makes sense. So, I'm taking off the hydraulic setup since I can't really move the master cylinder any further up and going back to the manual linkage. I can move the rod further up the pedal which should make a difference. It wasn't as stiff before as it is now but letting out on the pedal wasn't very fun. I'll post an update when it's done.

silverslashstreak

I think you have uncovered your problem Lynn, will have much better leverage now and it will also increase your pedal travel during engagement of the clutch giving you much better feel.

For example, when installing power vs manual brakes, the distance from the pivot point is moved about 1 inch for the 2 systems to work properly.

Jeff

OCS1667

Lynn, I'm not sure what to say. Jeff turned me on to the T-5, and it turned out perfect. No noise, shifts smooth, clutch releases easily, great mileage. I don't understand all the hassle you have had to go through. I know mine was a C-2, but the mechanics were the same.
Sent you pics, and how I accompolished the project. I called Jeff a couple of times while doing mine and he explained how, or what to expect. I think I improved or updated on Jeffs, install to some extent.

Dennis

lynns59

Well the T5 is great but the actual install of the transmission in a C1 is a pretty good chore unless you have the engine out already and put it in as one unit. Of course if you have to pull the trans for some reason you have a problem. This clutch is really the only thing that has give major problems that I've been unable to solve. Following the suggestions of you and Jeff on the manual linkage I was able to soften the pedal pushing but letting out on the clutch is really bad since it's all at once. It's either in or out. I thought the hydraulic setup would help but it didn't and I can't really move the master cylinder up anymore to get the 6:1 pedal ratio. So I'm going back to the linkage setup since I can move the linkage rod further up the pedal which should make a difference because right now it's no more than 1:1. I wish I had known about this sooner. I don't understand why you two didn't run into this unless a C2 is that much different.

kenmo

With 4:11s in my 60, I'll be watching this thread....

CrCrzy

I would actually leave the clutch pedal and the clutch rod that goes through the firewall alone and in the "slow position". If you want to gain more mechanican advantage why not try it further downstream in the Z-bar assembly? If the hole that the clutch rod passes through is unmodified it is already a tight fit.

I have installed a T5 in our 1960 Corvette. On this setup I used the Camaro bellhousing and did not add any length to the Camaro clutch fork. I do not find the pedal pressure to be too heavy. It is heavier than both our 1963 Corvette as well as the 1975 Corvette. On our setup the clutch also seams to engage quickly. I have thought about ways to fix this but it hasn't been a big priority because it doesn't bother us that bad. If I were to fix it, I would probably make an extension for the engine side of the Z-bar lever. This wouldn't be hard to make out of a bar of steel. Drill one more hole in the Z-bar lever and bolt on the extension. The Z-bar lever will now be longer and not only provide more leverage but should also slow down the clutch engagement. The additional length of the Z-bar rod should also compensate for the 17 degree bellhousing and make the actuation rod act more linear while applying force to the clutch fork.

I have not tried this fix yet personally, but if I were to try and fix the quick clutch engagement on our 1960 Corvette this would be the direction I would most likely go. You don't have to remove any of the drivetrain and the Z-bar comes out relatively easily. Just an idea.

CrCrzy

Thinking about this further, I think I have it backwards. To slow down the clutch actuation I think you have to move the clutch pushrod acting against the clutch fork up on the Z-bar lever.