bertbrown

In 62, Street Eliminator was run heads up. No tree.
Osterman didn't get anything running against an A/FX car!
And yes.....one of the reasons Wade won Eliminator is that he caught Pittman napping.
Handicap starts were later.

Regarding the Z-11 option, there was a limited release of, lets call them "pre-Z-11" parts to selected racers. Nicholson had aluminum fenders and special motor parts for his 62 late in the year, just prior to Indy.

bertbrown

Regarding Mazmanian running different classes.............

My records (Drag News) show the last time Mazmanian trophied as a stock (AA/SP) Corvette was at Pomona on July 16, 1961.
The next time he trophied was as a CM/SP at Inyokern on Nov 19, 1961.

So that kind of says that he modified his car sometime during the fall of 1961 to run modified.

I haven't checked later records to see if he ran in other classes.

GCD1962

Good info. My era runs from beginning late '62. One hardly had a chance in eliminations if you were lower than the top class. The special motor parts are understood, but would alum fenders have been made for a '62? One of the great things back "in the days" was that if you had the right connections or "friends"" at GM, Ford, Chrysler what you could get was only limited by your imagination.

Eventually, even the handicapping for eliminator classes few by the wayside as there was far too much "stretching of the rules" in all the stock and modified classes. This lead to brackets (dial-in) for cars which basically is very boring. I enjoyed those runs when one car got a 2 or 3 second head start and the other car had to catch up to beat him to the finish !

1-2-b-67L89

Well this east coaster learned a lot about Wade and Nicolson that I never knew. Knew about the 409 thing, later the comets, and then pro stock but not the Corvette FI tuning of so many notables.
Bert, looked at your son's photo site and the car is just magnificent. How did you come across and purchase the car and did you restore it or was it already done. Just gorgeous!
Thanks for sharing

bertbrown

I can't tell you much about the 62 Z-11 parts, except that some aluminum fenders and special engine parts were released in late '62. My machinist in West Covina was partners in a 63 Z-11 back in the '80s and he told me that he was able to purchase Don's 62 and 63 left over stuff that he had stashed in the rafters. I blinked my eyes when he told me "62"! There were 62 parts around.

My high school buddy, Bill Morehart, purchased the ex Terry Prince Z-11 in the late 60s and raced it for a number of years. Those Z-11s were fascinating cars!

For lots of info on the "Stock" class racing in the '60s, go over to the HAMB forum, search for "Jr Stock". Also some very good threads on FX and Mod Prod. You will spend days reading the posts. The 348-409 forum has a bunch of info on the Z-11s.

here is a picture of Don's 62 Impala with the aluminum front end that I retrieved off the HAMB History Stock-S/S-F/X thread:

bertbrown

Well, 1-2-b67L89, you are from God's country! York, PA, wow!

That is the true home of Stock and Super Stock racing. We could talk about Dick Hare and Larry Lombardo's 61 Corvettes here now, they ran York, back in the day.

Anyway, to answer your question about how I came to own the Grassman car, a high school buddy lived across the street from Brendan Grassman during the 60s. Brendan was quite a character and he had a number of Corvettes and a fuel dragster (small block Chevy) that turned in the mid 180mph range. He would actually fire it up on the street and you know how that would attract attention. Brendan's wife offered the '61 to my buddy and he knew I was always looking for a Corvette. It was Sept 1967 and I was leaving for school and my dad wouldn't let me take a car to school. What to do!!? I made a deal with another high school friend that I would lend him the money to buy the car if he would sell it back to me next summer. That's what we did. So in June of 1968, I picked it up and had to fight my old man to keep it. I bought it less engine, drove it a bunch and kind of retired it in 1980 when I got married. Man I used that car, it was used to haul parts, I took out the passenger seat to take my Triumph engines to the dyno (I raced SCCA) and even took my future wife out for our first date in it. Well around 1983 I began to get stuff together to go thru the car and restore it. I needed the original engine and couldn't find Grassman. I got ahold of Terry Prince, he hooked me up with Earl Wade, then I got to Grassman. He had the original engine in the garage, also some wheels, tires, driveline stuff, etc. We hauled it out of there and it found a home. I started to drive it again in 1987, Super Chevy did an article in 1989, took it to a few NHRA hot rod reunions in the '90s, met Grumpy Jenkins and had some good talks about the old days, met Robert Genet who put the car in a few of his books, and finally a few years ago drove it over to the Blackhawk Museum (where my son works as a photographer) and he shot the pics. He makes it look better than it is.

What I loved about meeting Grumpy was the fact that he knew Nicholson's work, and Don was a major competitor. When we talked, I mentioned that he towed all the way out west and got beat by a local. Well Grumpy and Strickler didn't tow all the way out for just one race. The weekend after the Winternats, Fontana held the California Stock and Sports Car Championships. Well, that weekend, Lenke's car won Sports (yeah, he beat Grassman again!, but this time with Dyno Don driving the Lenke car), but this time around Strickler beat Dyno Don in the 409 for the Stock Championship. Well, remember I said that I mentioned to Grumpy that it was too bad he lost the Winternats? Well Grumpy shot back quick as an arrow, "we beat him the next weekend at Fontana!!!" That was one race, about 35 years earlier, and this guy Grumpy was shooting facts back in my face lightning fast. I really think it was a racer's memory, they raced for blood. This wasn't any casual deal. Strickler versus Nicholson went on for a long time.

Sorry for rambling, but it shows how much respect these guys had for one another.

1-2-b-67L89

Well I'm not sure about "God's country!" but it is home
A shame we do not have York US30 anymore but we have the memories. My first drag race to attend was the 65 Super Stock Nationals so it hooked me immediately and in York we had the 3 S', Jere Stahl, Dave Strickler, and Bill Stiles. And the Lombardo's, Jenkins, and others in the surrounding area. I can remember going to Stahl's speed center in West York and being waited on by Dick Moroso.
Thanks Bert for sharing the information about how you obtained a great car and how good fortunes followed you when the original engine was obtained. You had to be smiling that day. In fact I bet your still smiling
Great pics and info from everyone especially Jim and yourself. You guys could write a book.

Jim Dillon

Bunch of great information Bert and really like the story on how you bought the car.

As a follow up on the Z-11 engines etc in 1962 I looked up what Larry Davis says about it in his Super Stock book and he says "There were a total of seven initial sets of parts that were put into service in August 1962. Chevrolet began issuing the Z-11 parts to the bigger name drivers around the country, including Dave Strickler, Don Nicholson, Hayden Proffitt, Frank Sanders and Ronnie Sox. However, Chevrolet stamped many more sets of the aluminum front-end pieces and many other drivers and teams installed these parts on their cars."

Bert I see from the pic of Mazmanian's car at the 62 Winternationals that they had not yet cut the rear fenderwells which then the picture of the Mazmanians car next to the black 62 in question has to be sometime in 1962. The car in 1963 had the hood with a nice bubble molded into the hood I believe instead of the aluminum piece in the picture.

In the picture of Nicholson's car at Indy in 1962 it looks like the guys next to him liked Carlings Black Label.

Mazmanian's car and your car survived for sure but do you know of any of the other early drag Corvettes that survived?-Jim

bertbrown

I don't know how many survived. It is a case of knowing a little bit about the history when you buy the car. So many of these cars have had their history buried by good intentioned people restoring them to "St. Louis" condition.

I was lucky, knowing Grassman, Earl Wade, and Terry Prince personally, and then having Doug Marion take a personal interest in the car, and because he was old friends with Brendan, he did an article on the car for Super Chevy.

Brendan would know where some cars went, but he is gone now.

The other Corvettes I am aware of include Larry Lombardo's Buckshot, Mazmanian's, and the Dick Moroso 61.

There were some cool cars out there. For instance, the Ernie Porter 57 Corvette. It was modified and ran at 130 mph. Heck, Mazmanian took a long time before he could run his 61 Corvette that fast and Porter was doing that in the late '50s! (But Maz had the style and the candy apple paint!)

GCD1962

A friend bought a '63 Z-11 (Billy Lagana from Eastchester, NY). I remember him saying he took out a loan on the car and had payments of about $80 a month !

1-2-b-67L89 - You sure on the time frame? Dick Moroso did not hook up with Stahl until around '66 or & '67 (By '68 he packed up and went back to CT). I shared he D/MSP record in 66 with Dick, He set it at York, but we travelled there for the points meet.

GCD1962

Rick Moroso still has his Dad's '61. It now has a 572 crate engine in it putting out close to 700 hp. He occassionaly drives it on the street ! I've ridden in the car a few times with him - couldn't catch my breath when he nailed it ! I just had my '62 painted the same color as Rick's '61.

bertbrown

1-2-b67L89, if you hit the 65 Super Stock Nationals at York, you were present at the Woodstock of drag racing. The only thing better would be to have been there as a participant!

bertbrown

Well you won't have any trouble catching your breath in my car, just has the 315hp motor!

Jim Dillon

Bert it is a bit of a shame of the hundreds of early Vette drag cars that only a relatively few of the cars survived in race trim. I was just curious if you were aware of any other of the West Coast cars for instance.

Plus don't forget Dan Hampton's Pizza Man. Plus there are a few others like the Chevy Boys. Like you said though some have gone back to St Louis condition so they are out there we just don't know it.

George here is a picture that you may recognize. You could probably tell some stories as well.-Jim

GCD1962

I also remember going to some Super Stock meets at Cecil County in '65 or '66 that had every big name attending including all the FX cars of the time.

1-2-b-67L89

Ahh, I never gave a time-frame! I just wrote I remember having Dick wait on me. This would have been in the late 60's and was thinking it was when I had a new 69 L78 Nova but not 100% sure. You might remember that Jere Stahl and Dick Moroso went into some type of partnership as it was called Stahl-Moroso Speed shop. The header thing never changed (Stahl Headers) but the speed shop and items offered had the duo in name. Sometimes you see offered for sale an old mechanical drive tell tale tach with the Stahl-Moroso name on it.

Here's a little tid bit of information. In York we had what was known as the circuit. You would drive down Philadelphia street as it was one way, get to where Ammon R. Smith (Dave Strickler) and head back through town via Market Street which was one way. One evening I was with some guys and this new Corvette Bronze 68 Z/28 flies by to a signal light. I look over and guess what, it was Dave driving the Z/28. Pretty sure it must have just came in and he was taking it for a spin as it quickly turned into one celebrated super stocker which Jerry MacNeish owns today. He (Dave) sure could pound a gear

GCD1962

Lots of stories Jim - I hung around with Dick and his brothers all through the 60s. First met him when I became friends with his brother Doug. A few of the more memorable stories

1) The time at Connecticut Dragway around 1965. It was a points meet. For some reason the car was always hard to get running good at CT. We arrived a little late at the track (standard for Dick, he was not an early riser) and wanted to get in as many runs as possible before eliminations. We took the car off the trailer and because we knew it was almost out of gas, Dick grabbed a 5 gallon can and put it in the tank. Fired the car up, let is run for a few minutes to warm it up, started to go and the engine died. WTF !!!!! (Dick had a temper at times). He kept cranking the engine and it wouldn't fire. While he cranked I looked down into the carbs and noticed the drops of gas were just sitting there. I told Dick at which point he got out of the car and looked at the 5 gallon can - Yup he poured 5 gallons of water in the tank ! Two cans that were identical and not marked. Got the water out and ran fine after that.

2) This relates to your photo which shows a crossed out class. In running for points, points were given for each time a record (e.t. or MPH) was set. At the time the D/MSP record was in the low 13s. Dick figured he could run well below this. Instead of changing engines or building a new motor, what we did was to add nearly 450lbs of lead to the car. We got around the rules buy fitting a bunch of lead bars into a steel box which was attached to the rear crossmember - legal as it stengthened the frame. For most of the year Dick ran in D/MSP and was carefull each time to only lower the record a little bit. I think it was towards the end of the year (maybe even this is where your photo was taken) there was a national meet at Englishtown (year I think was 1967, not sure). What Dick wanted to do was to set four records in one day, the e.t. & MPH record for both D/MSP and C/MP. After setting both ends of the D/MSP record we put the car back on the hauler and torched off the lead box (it crashed down hard on the hauler with no chance of moving it), and he went back out, reclassed the car and then set both ends of the C/MP record. By the end of the day the e.t record was set lower by Ross Gilbert of Lancaster, Pa in his C/MP Chev, but, nevertheless, for a brief time Dick set and held four records in one day.

3) After Dick left Stahl (leaving in the middle of the night with help by a friend) he opened up shop in a 1,500 sq ft store in Greenwich, Ct. I had just finished basic training for Navy Reserves and worked the "night shift" at the store. I was the first employee for Moroso Performance. Around this time Dick knew there was a market to mail order performance parts so he created the first catalog. I remember when it came back from the printer as we lined up all the pages (around 16 I think), assembled them and stapled them. That first catalog raised a few eyebrows as Dick used a model that was a friend of a guy named Seymour Balz. His real name was Pat Cunningham. Pat and Phil Engledrum put out a car magazine named something like Super Stock Illustrated and other car mags. Seymour got this bimbo to pose for the catalog and in one of the photos , the girl is clearly pointed at the oil pan with her middle finger which many people quickly noticed. with a number of "moms" objecting. The magazines published by Phil and Pat also were very suggestive at the time (today would be nothing), and when a mother would complain of her son reading such "trash" Seymour and Phil would resond by sending a photo copy of a hand with the middle finger well extended !

Yes, they were fun time. I spent as many hours away from the cars and racing in the 60s hanging around with Dick, his brother, and other friends, going to the local water holes, going to parties, playing football, etc.

1-2-b-67L89

Yes Bert that was Woodstock of drag racing. I can still see the people (never saw so many crammed into a small area) getting closer and closer to the cars and raceway and they would stop the racing and get everybody pushed back and then everyone started to creep forward each run. It was wild. Seemed like all the greats of that time era were in one place that Saturday night in August, 1965. And at the time I thought all dragstrips had to stop racing to let a plane take off or land.

I do not know if and where the SS Nationals were in 66 but in 67 it was at Cecil County, MD. I was at that one and it was a wild event. I still have a picture I took of Dyno Don's Comet when it blew a blower and the rear window pexiglass was blown out on the right and left side. The center section was where his head would be located at. Trying to remember the 19 yr. old young gun who won Super Stock in the Camaro there?????
Chick

Dan Hampton

I believe that Ed Hedrick was also part of the Moroso Group before it split up. Ed raced on the "dark side", piloting the former Costilow/Larson Cobra DragonSnake. That car, between Larson and Hedrick, set four separate records in four separate classes. Ed went on to drive for Grump in Pro Stock in 1970. He is one hell of a nice guy.

Dan Hampton

The Hedrick Cobra in Costilow/Larson livery. This car so upstaged the Factory entrant that Shelby supposedly cut off parts delivery to Larson. This car sold for around $1.4 million in 2006. I met Bruce Larson at a Dana Mecum auction a few year ago and I did a subsequent article on the DragonSnake marque for Sports Car Market. Bruce has some great stories. The car was actually financed by Costilow's aunt who ran a successful truck stop diner in PA. He related a story when they decided to run 48 DCOE Webers. Costilow went to his aunt on a Saturday afternoon and she pulled $1,200 out of her safe at the diner so they could make the purchase. Who said that behind every great race car stands a woman?