VIN 194377S103954 "Documented" 67/435hp Possible FAKE
05-23-2013, 08:25 PM
#81
Burning Brakes
[QUOTE=Buttonhead;1583971175]This is so entertaining
First, Al Grenning will give his expert opinion but will not put it in writing that your engine is original. Only if you bought the car new can that claim be made.
Al Grenning will sell his opinion in writing and you do not need to be the origonal owner . You must be the CURRENT owner . You get a certificate and a letter of explanation . He did my 66 L36 for me and I surely am not the origonal buyer . I was 12 yrs old in 66 .
Bill
First, Al Grenning will give his expert opinion but will not put it in writing that your engine is original. Only if you bought the car new can that claim be made.
Al Grenning will sell his opinion in writing and you do not need to be the origonal owner . You must be the CURRENT owner . You get a certificate and a letter of explanation . He did my 66 L36 for me and I surely am not the origonal buyer . I was 12 yrs old in 66 .
Bill
05-24-2013, 10:50 AM
#82
Melting Slicks
[QUOTE=Buttonhead;1583971175]This is so entertaining
First, Al Grenning will give his expert opinion but will not put it in writing that your engine is original. Only if you bought the car new can that claim be made.
QUOTE]
So his "certification" of the engine pad says what then?
First, Al Grenning will give his expert opinion but will not put it in writing that your engine is original. Only if you bought the car new can that claim be made.
QUOTE]
So his "certification" of the engine pad says what then?
05-24-2013, 05:16 PM
#83
Heel & Toe
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OWNERSHIP HISTORY 194377S103954
July 7, 1976 Loyd Cotton Franklinton, LA purchased from Letsch Pontiac-Buick Covington LA (Have dealer invoice found in car) Loyd told me it was a 400 hp but it had a single 4 bbl when purchased from him. I researched engine code JC and knew it was a tri power with AC
.
May 1978 Gerard Hansen Arabi, LA (Have RO from Chevrolet Dealer with note 390hp plus lots of pictures) before I installed the tri power
December 1984 Ben Ledbetter Metairie, LA (Person who I sold car to)
April 24, 1985 Wayne McVicar Larose, LA (Have Louisiana title search August 1999) Talked to him and he told me he removed engine.
unknown period
June 8, 2006 Kent Wallace Dallas TX (Have Texas title search February 2010) Talked to him, told me car was in NJ and then CA
http://www.ronsusser.com/inventory.htm?id=859 (showed up as sold inventory, first time I saw it with JE code 435 and docs)
Sold to Frank Schilling in New Jersey
http://www.classiccarmarketing.net/1...GreenGreen.htm
Current Owner in Huntington Beach CA Talked with him. Said has owned for six years, had east coast expert do an inspection. Got OK to purchase. Has contacted expert to review findings.
July 7, 1976 Loyd Cotton Franklinton, LA purchased from Letsch Pontiac-Buick Covington LA (Have dealer invoice found in car) Loyd told me it was a 400 hp but it had a single 4 bbl when purchased from him. I researched engine code JC and knew it was a tri power with AC
.
May 1978 Gerard Hansen Arabi, LA (Have RO from Chevrolet Dealer with note 390hp plus lots of pictures) before I installed the tri power
December 1984 Ben Ledbetter Metairie, LA (Person who I sold car to)
April 24, 1985 Wayne McVicar Larose, LA (Have Louisiana title search August 1999) Talked to him and he told me he removed engine.
unknown period
June 8, 2006 Kent Wallace Dallas TX (Have Texas title search February 2010) Talked to him, told me car was in NJ and then CA
http://www.ronsusser.com/inventory.htm?id=859 (showed up as sold inventory, first time I saw it with JE code 435 and docs)
Sold to Frank Schilling in New Jersey
http://www.classiccarmarketing.net/1...GreenGreen.htm
Current Owner in Huntington Beach CA Talked with him. Said has owned for six years, had east coast expert do an inspection. Got OK to purchase. Has contacted expert to review findings.
Last edited by gerard.hansen; 05-24-2013 at 08:46 PM.
05-30-2013, 08:16 PM
#85
Heel & Toe
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04-09-2014, 07:26 AM
#88
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I guess the owners insurance will be paying him for the diminished value of he car. I spoke with an appraiser who looked at the car and it seems as if that will be the most likely outcome. The car is supposed to be offered for sale I would think as "tribute" or clone. Too bad they messed up my old air coupe. I think there were only 325 sold in 1967 with 400 hp AC.
04-09-2014, 07:43 AM
#89
Team Owner
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Wow, this is a wild thread and an example of a good cautionary tale.
I'm thinking that all the greed-induced "clones (aka forgeries) out there may deflate the upper dollar end of this craziness over time.
I'm thinking that all the greed-induced "clones (aka forgeries) out there may deflate the upper dollar end of this craziness over time.
04-09-2014, 08:31 AM
#90
Le Mans Master
As George Costanza so wonderfully noted: Jerry, it's not a lie unless you BELIEVE it's a lie.
04-09-2014, 09:04 AM
#91
Melting Slicks
It is good to have the real information as it makes those peddling fakes have to think twice. Thanks very much for providing it.
Once upon a time, it didn't matter. if you wanted an L88 or a 435 hp and you didn't have one, you built it and enjoyed it. You got to enjoy first hand what these cars were.
It only matters today because people put too much emphasis on pedigree. They were all built in a factory by a bunch of hourly workers feeding their families, not some mystic craftsmen in a hollow oak tree in an enchanted forest.
They aren't royal by birthright, anymore than another, as they are all sibling cars off the same line.
In some ways, I wish they were all fakes, and they would return to cars we simply drive, show, and enjoy.
Maybe after enough "investors" lose $50,000 or $100,000 on fakes, this will go away.
I've owned my 67 Coupe since 1972. Back in the day I enjoyed it so much more as a daily driver which was admired by people who liked cars. Today it sits on the Lift more than it should. Mostly stays home because of the way people drive here in NY. Al W.
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67L36Driver (12-14-2021)
07-06-2014, 02:07 AM
#92
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I got an e mail from the owner telling me he is going to court on Tuesday to hopefully settle with the sellers of 103954.
I wonder if charges could be filed aganst the sellers for fraud.
I wonder if charges could be filed aganst the sellers for fraud.
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scotty t (12-15-2021)
12-14-2021, 04:14 PM
#95
Instructor
Quick check on internet: Rebuilt 427's with your correct dates & stamps for $12,000 -$13,000 (including brouch marks). Rebuilt 4 speed muncie with your dates & numbers $2,500 - $3000. Good numbers matching skills that will pass are for sale on the open market. Best bet now is Paper documents until the fakers find a way to reproduce them. Matching numbers have never been more for sale than now. I wonder if my car has been faked or is real? Sad!
12-15-2021, 10:20 AM
#96
Team Owner
I was doing that rare car registry thread, but not for like L71 or other production rides. I haven't typed anymore of late, as been busy on other endeavors, researching other personal things to me, like my military career, what, where, when in a biography type of timeline, that includes News worthy World events.
I appreciate anyone maintaining a true registry, as many many many people are faking cars. It bothers me when some people try to fool me to get a car listed up on my little project I was sharing. I backed off sharing any more of my Z06 or L88 numbers, as I started sensing I am getting into phony cars. These guys constantly finding these claimed awesome optioned cars, many seem suspect to me. The crowd for the high cost cars, not my people. I tend to enjoy talking with a guy who has a driver level car, some mods, and stay away from the so called experts. I found in researching those 1963 Z06s as an example, the best of the experts I found shouldn't be trusted. They all had the early Z06s all jacked up! The organizations seem to assist all of those expert validate their phony cars, and they don't seem to be there for the common enthusiast. All of their precious. Accumulated data locked away from the commoners.
I appreciate anyone maintaining a true registry, as many many many people are faking cars. It bothers me when some people try to fool me to get a car listed up on my little project I was sharing. I backed off sharing any more of my Z06 or L88 numbers, as I started sensing I am getting into phony cars. These guys constantly finding these claimed awesome optioned cars, many seem suspect to me. The crowd for the high cost cars, not my people. I tend to enjoy talking with a guy who has a driver level car, some mods, and stay away from the so called experts. I found in researching those 1963 Z06s as an example, the best of the experts I found shouldn't be trusted. They all had the early Z06s all jacked up! The organizations seem to assist all of those expert validate their phony cars, and they don't seem to be there for the common enthusiast. All of their precious. Accumulated data locked away from the commoners.
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12-15-2021, 03:56 PM
#98
https://www.rkmotors.com/vehicles/41...rolet-corvette
priced below market for a real 435 car with so many options.
priced below market for a real 435 car with so many options.
12-15-2021, 04:34 PM
#99
Race Director
"Sale Pending"
However, it's not very possible the new owner did not Google '194377S103954'.
I just did, and this thread was the first to show up.
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ericisback (12-15-2021)
