500hp 2 x 4 WCFB ! (well almost)
05-20-2010, 01:30 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
500hp 2 x 4 WCFB ! (well almost)
13MAR15 UPDATE
It has been 5 years since we did this thread about my stealth 495 hp 270/283 2x4WCFB 61 Corvette. Since many were interested in the project, I thought that I owed you an update and maybe give some ideas to new readers.
I have not done more to the car but drive it. I have driven it 5,000 miles on week-end trips and rat racing around the local area. I would have driven it more but I bought an Avanti for the A/C and it steals some of the Corvette's drive time.
I drive the 61 every where. Even with all the hp, it is most streetable and cruises down the highway at 80 mph with my C6 (and now C7) buddies. It runs at 170 F temps with water and 10% glycol in Houston's 100+ temps/humidity using the original 1961 stock radiator. It starts easily like it had EFI cold or hot (the 1/4 oak plywood spacers under the WCFBs is the secret).
I have adjusted (really just checked) the solid roller valves a couple of times before going to drag strip. At the strip, it runs 12.9s and 108 mph; it could get 12.5s but I am rated for only 12.9s. I did put on P235/60R15 tires which fit in the wheel wells with the stock rear suspension.
When you want to 'freshen-up' your C1/C2 power train, this DART 400 set-up is a viable option. I helped over ten of our Corvette group install 383 strokers, etc. in their older Corvettes, I sleep better with the more robust DART 400 bottom-end and 480 ft/lb of torque.
Also, when you 'freshen-up', do not forget the 5 speed tranny.
Joe
Nov 8, 2011: Updated with experience of a longer road trip. Engine runs cool all summer in Houston 100-105F temps and too cold in 50F temps.
Jim's (427 Hotrod) article, or should we call it technical paper, is published
http://editions.amospublishing.com/K...&pagenum=62&f=
The magazine article (part I) is in the March Auto Enthusiast
The magazine article (part II) is in April Auto Enthusiast
Joe
Several of you have asked to have an update on my 'new 270hp/283' build. I did dyno on Monday here in Houston at the School of Automotive Machinists (SAM). There is a Corvette Enthusiast magazine article involved so I can not steal all the thunder now, but here is a summary:
1.I used all the same components I have run on the car for 42 years except a new DART 400 cu in SHP block with DART package internals, DART PRO 1 Platinum 200 cc heads, and a used oil pan.
2.I did carve aluminum out of the old 3739653 aluminum 2 x 4 intake runners and did open up the plenum (throats) under the two WCFB carbs. Did by hand with my air drill and rotary wood rasp and small sanding tips in air drill
3.Nothing, repeat nothing, went to a machine shop. We just got the DART block and heads from DART a few days before dyno. It was a bolt together.
4.Used a 248/248 COMP custom grind cam using a std. intake lobe used in small carb. oval track racing, used both as intake and exhaust lobe. Solid roller
5.Results were better than expected:
Team G single plane intake/Holley 750 double pumper (out of box)
520 ft lb @ 5,100 rpm 554 hp @ 6,300 rpm
Original 2 x 4 manifold (runners enlarged)/original WCFB dual carbs
475 ft lb @ 4,800 rpm 495 hp @ 6,000 rpm.
Almost 500 hp with 50 year old components on a new block and heads, but the Houston humidity got the last 5 hp.
Much more in later Corvette Enthusiast magazine article.
Joe
It has been 5 years since we did this thread about my stealth 495 hp 270/283 2x4WCFB 61 Corvette. Since many were interested in the project, I thought that I owed you an update and maybe give some ideas to new readers.
I have not done more to the car but drive it. I have driven it 5,000 miles on week-end trips and rat racing around the local area. I would have driven it more but I bought an Avanti for the A/C and it steals some of the Corvette's drive time.
I drive the 61 every where. Even with all the hp, it is most streetable and cruises down the highway at 80 mph with my C6 (and now C7) buddies. It runs at 170 F temps with water and 10% glycol in Houston's 100+ temps/humidity using the original 1961 stock radiator. It starts easily like it had EFI cold or hot (the 1/4 oak plywood spacers under the WCFBs is the secret).
I have adjusted (really just checked) the solid roller valves a couple of times before going to drag strip. At the strip, it runs 12.9s and 108 mph; it could get 12.5s but I am rated for only 12.9s. I did put on P235/60R15 tires which fit in the wheel wells with the stock rear suspension.
When you want to 'freshen-up' your C1/C2 power train, this DART 400 set-up is a viable option. I helped over ten of our Corvette group install 383 strokers, etc. in their older Corvettes, I sleep better with the more robust DART 400 bottom-end and 480 ft/lb of torque.
Also, when you 'freshen-up', do not forget the 5 speed tranny.
Joe
Nov 8, 2011: Updated with experience of a longer road trip. Engine runs cool all summer in Houston 100-105F temps and too cold in 50F temps.
Jim's (427 Hotrod) article, or should we call it technical paper, is published
http://editions.amospublishing.com/K...&pagenum=62&f=
The magazine article (part I) is in the March Auto Enthusiast
The magazine article (part II) is in April Auto Enthusiast
Joe
Several of you have asked to have an update on my 'new 270hp/283' build. I did dyno on Monday here in Houston at the School of Automotive Machinists (SAM). There is a Corvette Enthusiast magazine article involved so I can not steal all the thunder now, but here is a summary:
1.I used all the same components I have run on the car for 42 years except a new DART 400 cu in SHP block with DART package internals, DART PRO 1 Platinum 200 cc heads, and a used oil pan.
2.I did carve aluminum out of the old 3739653 aluminum 2 x 4 intake runners and did open up the plenum (throats) under the two WCFB carbs. Did by hand with my air drill and rotary wood rasp and small sanding tips in air drill
3.Nothing, repeat nothing, went to a machine shop. We just got the DART block and heads from DART a few days before dyno. It was a bolt together.
4.Used a 248/248 COMP custom grind cam using a std. intake lobe used in small carb. oval track racing, used both as intake and exhaust lobe. Solid roller
5.Results were better than expected:
Team G single plane intake/Holley 750 double pumper (out of box)
520 ft lb @ 5,100 rpm 554 hp @ 6,300 rpm
Original 2 x 4 manifold (runners enlarged)/original WCFB dual carbs
475 ft lb @ 4,800 rpm 495 hp @ 6,000 rpm.
Almost 500 hp with 50 year old components on a new block and heads, but the Houston humidity got the last 5 hp.
Much more in later Corvette Enthusiast magazine article.
Joe
Last edited by devildog; 03-13-2015 at 03:33 PM.
05-20-2010, 01:57 AM
#2
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Sweet! What magazine are you writing the article for?
I've been drooling over the Dart 427 short block on ebay...
How did you make the power pack casting marks on your heads?
DT
I've been drooling over the Dart 427 short block on ebay...
How did you make the power pack casting marks on your heads?
DT
Last edited by NOM61; 05-20-2010 at 02:22 AM.
05-20-2010, 08:05 AM
#5
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Corvette Enthusiast, Andy Bolig (Editor) is coming next week to ride on a trip, no plan when it will be in magazine.
Joe
Joe
05-20-2010, 09:07 AM
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Joe,
Very nice! Hot summer with a hot old Vette! Will be waiting for the article.
Can you post the 2 curves (with the Team G and with the dual quads)? Be interesting to see if the dual quads fell off at the top end, or if they were lower further on down.
John
Very nice! Hot summer with a hot old Vette! Will be waiting for the article.
Can you post the 2 curves (with the Team G and with the dual quads)? Be interesting to see if the dual quads fell off at the top end, or if they were lower further on down.
John
Last edited by Plasticman; 05-20-2010 at 09:10 AM.
05-20-2010, 10:27 AM
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Joe,
I second all of the above.
I NO LONGER subscribe to ANY automotive publications, thus, the ONLY way that I will see the information is right here. But actually, NONE of your comments surprise me at all--------------it's pretty much what I would have expected.
The SB400 (70 4bolt stock block) with cleaned up 66 2.02 heads, .500 lift flat tappet cam and a modified Rochester FI unit (those air meters only flow about 600cfm and original 2x4 WCFBs flow about 770cfm total) in my 56 is an outstanding performer. So, it would only be expected that with the DART "good" stuff and a roller, the numbers should be higher! Many of you are aware of the "cheater" stuff that I've done to the 66 heads on my 400 (only to create an appearance of 57 539 heads), which of course are still not as good as modern technology aftermarket heads.
WAY TO GO!!!
(Actually, I'm kind of surprised that more owners of these early Vettes are not running big cube SBs, ie 383-427ci. But then, I guess I'm still much more of a hotrodder than I am a NCRSer
. Frequently. when I visit the NCRS site, I read things that just make me hang my head and roll my eyes. For me personally, some of that stuff just takes the fun out of driving/owning one of these early pieces of Americana!)
Tom Parsons
I second all of the above.
I NO LONGER subscribe to ANY automotive publications, thus, the ONLY way that I will see the information is right here. But actually, NONE of your comments surprise me at all--------------it's pretty much what I would have expected.
The SB400 (70 4bolt stock block) with cleaned up 66 2.02 heads, .500 lift flat tappet cam and a modified Rochester FI unit (those air meters only flow about 600cfm and original 2x4 WCFBs flow about 770cfm total) in my 56 is an outstanding performer. So, it would only be expected that with the DART "good" stuff and a roller, the numbers should be higher! Many of you are aware of the "cheater" stuff that I've done to the 66 heads on my 400 (only to create an appearance of 57 539 heads), which of course are still not as good as modern technology aftermarket heads.
WAY TO GO!!!
(Actually, I'm kind of surprised that more owners of these early Vettes are not running big cube SBs, ie 383-427ci. But then, I guess I'm still much more of a hotrodder than I am a NCRSer
. Frequently. when I visit the NCRS site, I read things that just make me hang my head and roll my eyes. For me personally, some of that stuff just takes the fun out of driving/owning one of these early pieces of Americana!)Tom Parsons
Last edited by DZAUTO; 05-20-2010 at 10:37 AM.
05-20-2010, 12:21 PM
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As Joe said..this is a sweet *little* engine. It has the *look* but people kept telling us the cover was blown as soon as we hit the start button! It sounds incredible!
Once we get finished with the road trip we will have lots more info to share and I'll get the article all put together for Corvette Enthusiast. It's got a lot of cool details that will help make your choice a LOT easier on what to stick under your hood!
In the meantime you could call Dart and ask them for the same package that was used for the Corvette Enthusiast buildup!
Then we can help you out with cam choices for your needs.
JIM
Once we get finished with the road trip we will have lots more info to share and I'll get the article all put together for Corvette Enthusiast. It's got a lot of cool details that will help make your choice a LOT easier on what to stick under your hood!
In the meantime you could call Dart and ask them for the same package that was used for the Corvette Enthusiast buildup!
Then we can help you out with cam choices for your needs.
JIM
05-20-2010, 12:41 PM
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DT
05-20-2010, 03:10 PM
#11
Racer
You just did that in order to kick my butt if I made it to Cruise-In, didn't you??? I am going to be in Owensboro all next week. You guys going to be in the parking lot in BG on Fri night? I may drive over in my old 'cough-cough' FORD to see you guys. I can't make it to Waynesville. Bert.
05-20-2010, 03:15 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
No Bert, we have to by-pass BG this year and go straight to NC, some of us work for living and are not 'professional' pilots.
Joe
Joe
You just did that in order to kick my butt if I made it to Cruise-In, didn't you??? I am going to be in Owensboro all next week. You guys going to be in the parking lot in BG on Fri night? I may drive over in my old 'cough-cough' FORD to see you guys. I can't make it to Waynesville. Bert.
05-20-2010, 03:19 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
We just did Jim's (427HotRod) Merlin which is now a 550. He will have all sorts of stuff to report in a sister article about several cam evaluations, heads, and even a spiffy EFI
But with this DART 400 set-up, do you need a big block?
joe
But with this DART 400 set-up, do you need a big block?
joe
05-20-2010, 03:25 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Tom, I am just honored to be in your 400 club and stand in your shadow. It ain't "cheater" stuff, we call that stealthy enhancements.
I bet Zora smiles from heaven every time you put your 56 on the road !
Joe
I bet Zora smiles from heaven every time you put your 56 on the road !
Joe
I second all of the above.
I NO LONGER subscribe to ANY automotive publications, thus, the ONLY way that I will see the information is right here. But actually, NONE of your comments surprise me at all--------------it's pretty much what I would have expected.
The SB400 (70 4bolt stock block) with cleaned up 66 2.02 heads, .500 lift flat tappet cam and a modified Rochester FI unit (those air meters only flow about 600cfm and original 2x4 WCFBs flow about 770cfm total) in my 56 is an outstanding performer. So, it would only be expected that with the DART "good" stuff and a roller, the numbers should be higher! Many of you are aware of the "cheater" stuff that I've done to the 66 heads on my 400 (only to create an appearance of 57 539 heads), which of course are still not as good as modern technology aftermarket heads.
WAY TO GO!!!
(Actually, I'm kind of surprised that more owners of these early Vettes are not running big cube SBs, ie 383-427ci. But then, I guess I'm still much more of a hotrodder than I am a NCRSer . Frequently. when I visit the NCRS site, I read things that just make me hang my head and roll my eyes. For me personally, some of that stuff just takes the fun out of driving/owning one of these early pieces of Americana!)
Tom Parsons
I NO LONGER subscribe to ANY automotive publications, thus, the ONLY way that I will see the information is right here. But actually, NONE of your comments surprise me at all--------------it's pretty much what I would have expected.
The SB400 (70 4bolt stock block) with cleaned up 66 2.02 heads, .500 lift flat tappet cam and a modified Rochester FI unit (those air meters only flow about 600cfm and original 2x4 WCFBs flow about 770cfm total) in my 56 is an outstanding performer. So, it would only be expected that with the DART "good" stuff and a roller, the numbers should be higher! Many of you are aware of the "cheater" stuff that I've done to the 66 heads on my 400 (only to create an appearance of 57 539 heads), which of course are still not as good as modern technology aftermarket heads.
WAY TO GO!!!
(Actually, I'm kind of surprised that more owners of these early Vettes are not running big cube SBs, ie 383-427ci. But then, I guess I'm still much more of a hotrodder than I am a NCRSer
. Frequently. when I visit the NCRS site, I read things that just make me hang my head and roll my eyes. For me personally, some of that stuff just takes the fun out of driving/owning one of these early pieces of Americana!)Tom Parsons
Last edited by devildog; 05-20-2010 at 04:31 PM.
05-20-2010, 03:35 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
John, yes we will post, Jim (427HotRod) is to drop the data this afternoon. We also had a DART double plane intake with the 750 DP which fell in between the WCFB's and the single plane Team G.
The WCFB's had 453 tq @3,000, peaked 476 @4700. The Hp peaked 495 @6000 but still had 490 hp @6300 end of pull
Joe
The WCFB's had 453 tq @3,000, peaked 476 @4700. The Hp peaked 495 @6000 but still had 490 hp @6300 end of pull
Joe
05-20-2010, 03:39 PM
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05-20-2010, 03:51 PM
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John, yes we will post, Jim (427HotRod) is to drop the data this afternoon. We also had a DART double plane intake with the 750 DP which fell in between the WCFB's and the single plane Team G.
The WCFB's had 453 tq @3,000, peaked 476 @4700. The Hp peaked 495 @6000 but still had 490 hp @6300 end of pull
Joe
The WCFB's had 453 tq @3,000, peaked 476 @4700. The Hp peaked 495 @6000 but still had 490 hp @6300 end of pull
Joe
Great results! 453 tq @ 3,000! Time for a "new" rear end (or I hope you have slippery rear tires)!
Thanks,
John
05-20-2010, 04:29 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
John, they are not slick now, but since they are 205 Goodyears, they soon will be slippery or at least smooth. I figure that is my torque fuseble link...tires spin before I tear-up too much.
05-20-2010, 05:30 PM
#19
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I think we'll call it the *Sneak-in-ator*!
It sneeks in and eats you up!!
JIM
It sneeks in and eats you up!!
JIM
05-20-2010, 06:06 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Tom, The NCRS is a great organization and many enjoy the activity of making a high point count car. I never thought about it before, but I bet Zora would rather be in your shop or with the young men that helped do the dyno work on my engine Monday. Hanging their butts over the line looking for another ft lb or a few more hp's...pushing the envelope at risk of breaking something.
Joe,
I second all of the above.
(Actually, I'm kind of surprised that more owners of these early Vettes are not running big cube SBs, ie 383-427ci. But then, I guess I'm still much more of a hotrodder than I am a NCRSer . Frequently. when I visit the NCRS site, I read things that just make me hang my head and roll my eyes. For me personally, some of that stuff just takes the fun out of driving/owning one of these early pieces of Americana!)
Tom Parsons
I second all of the above.
(Actually, I'm kind of surprised that more owners of these early Vettes are not running big cube SBs, ie 383-427ci. But then, I guess I'm still much more of a hotrodder than I am a NCRSer
. Frequently. when I visit the NCRS site, I read things that just make me hang my head and roll my eyes. For me personally, some of that stuff just takes the fun out of driving/owning one of these early pieces of Americana!)Tom Parsons