58 - Fouled spark plugs - running rough - see pics
11-10-2010, 04:03 PM
#21
Team Owner
Member Since: Mar 2003
Location: Greenville, Indiana
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Hey John....
Ok...ya lost me. What is the "throttle plate" and "transfer slots"?
And you are correct....I saw a some change when adjusting the screw on right (drivers side when facing the engine) and not much on the left. I could actually stall the car with the one on the right...not sure on the one on the left..I didn't play too much with either. However, with the car running like crap, it was hard just to get it to idle much less have time to really play with the settings.
I did notice this...with the engine off and looking down inside the carb...I pump the accelerator rod and only the right side squirts out gas and the left side only dribbles out. Another clue??
Ok...ya lost me. What is the "throttle plate" and "transfer slots"?
And you are correct....I saw a some change when adjusting the screw on right (drivers side when facing the engine) and not much on the left. I could actually stall the car with the one on the right...not sure on the one on the left..I didn't play too much with either. However, with the car running like crap, it was hard just to get it to idle much less have time to really play with the settings.
I did notice this...with the engine off and looking down inside the carb...I pump the accelerator rod and only the right side squirts out gas and the left side only dribbles out. Another clue??
11-10-2010, 05:35 PM
#22
Safety Car
I'm no expert on the Edelbrock (Carter) carb, but, is the car parked on level ground? If it is leaning sta'b'd or port it can upset the fuel flux parameter and cause gas dribbling unevenly problems like you explained.
I'd be interested to hear some more feedback on the oily wet threads. I assume that the OP has no external oil leaks flowing onto the spark plugs.
I'd be interested to hear some more feedback on the oily wet threads. I assume that the OP has no external oil leaks flowing onto the spark plugs.
Last edited by 65tripleblack; 11-11-2010 at 06:42 AM. Reason: added smiley.......last sentence
11-10-2010, 08:24 PM
#23
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Car is up on level ground.
11-11-2010, 07:03 AM
#25
Team Owner
Sounds like the OP has limited knowledge about carbs....he prob should have it professionally rebuilt by a Bob Kunz (bobkunz@att.net) or Chuck Smith or www.daytonaparts.com. The WCFBs aren't terribly complicated but there are LOTS of tiny parts and float level and position are hypercritical on these beasts as the float chambers are so small.
11-11-2010, 08:24 AM
#26
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Hi Frank....
I appreciate your expertise and contributions, but I think you may have over looked some of the facts in the conversation...as I stated, I personally rebuilt the carb and it ran great. Actually in the years I have had the car, I have rebuilt the carb 2 other times with no problems.
I may not know all the terminology used when referring to components in the carb, but as you stated, rebuilding them is fairly simple...especially when they provide instructions and templates used for feeler gauges.
My biggest concern was why the internal workings of the engine sounded so loud then a few times would go away. Another concern was if a plug is fouled, can it be recovered.
Once it was determined that the plug was fouled from gas and not oil, that was a relief and made me take a second look at the carb...and it was at this time I moved the accelerator rod and noticed that that only one of the injectors was squirting gas and the other was just a dribble...not a good sign. I really didn't think it was the carb because as I stated, I just rebuilt it and it ran great...and I had made no changes in that area.
I now think what happen was that when I ran out of gas, the fuel pump sucked in some crap from the bottom of the tank and gummed up the carb. Plus adding the 2-cycle gas didn't help.
I bought a rebuild kit last night and hopefully that will solve my problem.
I appreciate your expertise and contributions, but I think you may have over looked some of the facts in the conversation...as I stated, I personally rebuilt the carb and it ran great. Actually in the years I have had the car, I have rebuilt the carb 2 other times with no problems.
I may not know all the terminology used when referring to components in the carb, but as you stated, rebuilding them is fairly simple...especially when they provide instructions and templates used for feeler gauges.
My biggest concern was why the internal workings of the engine sounded so loud then a few times would go away. Another concern was if a plug is fouled, can it be recovered.
Once it was determined that the plug was fouled from gas and not oil, that was a relief and made me take a second look at the carb...and it was at this time I moved the accelerator rod and noticed that that only one of the injectors was squirting gas and the other was just a dribble...not a good sign. I really didn't think it was the carb because as I stated, I just rebuilt it and it ran great...and I had made no changes in that area.
I now think what happen was that when I ran out of gas, the fuel pump sucked in some crap from the bottom of the tank and gummed up the carb. Plus adding the 2-cycle gas didn't help.
I bought a rebuild kit last night and hopefully that will solve my problem.
11-11-2010, 11:24 AM
#28
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Yes..I agree...that was also a suggestion by another contributer.
11-11-2010, 04:36 PM
#29
Drifting
I just went through months of trying to track down gas in the crank case/fouling plug problem. My plugs would foul within 5 minutes of running the engine and then the crank case oil level would increase. I replaced everything from the fuel tank to the carb and had the carb rechecked and flow tested. My bottom line is that I believe when the carb was flow tested, it cleaned out the needles/seats and the car runs fine now. The old gas tank had developed what appeared to be a fine dusty type of sediment and played havoc with the carb.
My suggestion is to see what you can do to run clean gas through a clean filter to a clean carb. That may solve your problem.
My suggestion is to see what you can do to run clean gas through a clean filter to a clean carb. That may solve your problem.
11-11-2010, 06:26 PM
#30
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Good suggestion! I think the first step will be to remove the carb, and look to see if there are any sediments in it.
11-11-2010, 08:50 PM
#31
Team Owner
Hi Frank....
I appreciate your expertise and contributions, but I think you may have over looked some of the facts in the conversation...as I stated, I personally rebuilt the carb and it ran great. Actually in the years I have had the car, I have rebuilt the carb 2 other times with no problems.
I may not know all the terminology used when referring to components in the carb, but as you stated, rebuilding them is fairly simple...especially when they provide instructions and templates used for feeler gauges.
My biggest concern was why the internal workings of the engine sounded so loud then a few times would go away. Another concern was if a plug is fouled, can it be recovered.
Once it was determined that the plug was fouled from gas and not oil, that was a relief and made me take a second look at the carb...and it was at this time I moved the accelerator rod and noticed that that only one of the injectors was squirting gas and the other was just a dribble...not a good sign. I really didn't think it was the carb because as I stated, I just rebuilt it and it ran great...and I had made no changes in that area.
I now think what happen was that when I ran out of gas, the fuel pump sucked in some crap from the bottom of the tank and gummed up the carb. Plus adding the 2-cycle gas didn't help.
I bought a rebuild kit last night and hopefully that will solve my problem.
I appreciate your expertise and contributions, but I think you may have over looked some of the facts in the conversation...as I stated, I personally rebuilt the carb and it ran great. Actually in the years I have had the car, I have rebuilt the carb 2 other times with no problems.
I may not know all the terminology used when referring to components in the carb, but as you stated, rebuilding them is fairly simple...especially when they provide instructions and templates used for feeler gauges.
My biggest concern was why the internal workings of the engine sounded so loud then a few times would go away. Another concern was if a plug is fouled, can it be recovered.
Once it was determined that the plug was fouled from gas and not oil, that was a relief and made me take a second look at the carb...and it was at this time I moved the accelerator rod and noticed that that only one of the injectors was squirting gas and the other was just a dribble...not a good sign. I really didn't think it was the carb because as I stated, I just rebuilt it and it ran great...and I had made no changes in that area.
I now think what happen was that when I ran out of gas, the fuel pump sucked in some crap from the bottom of the tank and gummed up the carb. Plus adding the 2-cycle gas didn't help.
I bought a rebuild kit last night and hopefully that will solve my problem.
BTW - if you had enough gas thinning out your oil to the point your engine parts were clattering then your dipstick level should have read noticeably higher and smell like gas.
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; 11-11-2010 at 08:54 PM.
11-11-2010, 09:16 PM
#32
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Hey Frank...I was thinking the same thing because that would be an easy thing to do. The other thing I was thinking is putting some in the glass bowl..and while I had it off, squirt some carb cleaner in the inlet and using some compressed air to shoot it though.
Then maybe test the injectors to see if they are squirting...if not, then its time to split the halves and take a look.
As always...you are always full of good ideas!
Then maybe test the injectors to see if they are squirting...if not, then its time to split the halves and take a look.
As always...you are always full of good ideas!
11-11-2010, 09:20 PM
#33
Team Owner
11-11-2010, 10:52 PM
#34
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Haaa!! You know one of the greatest things in life is helping others and expecting nothing in return.
11-21-2010, 05:37 PM
#35
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Ok...here is an update...
I rebuilt the carb...now the gas flows out both injectors and it idles fine...HOWEVER, I'm still having a problem.
When I first start the car up, it idles really rough..in fact if you don't give it some gas, it will die. It's also mis-firing, and blowing out smoke (mostly out of the passenger side exhaust. It also makes this sound that I can't identify.
Once it runs for a while and gets warmed up...the noise calms down, it idles better, and there is no smoke. However when I rev the engine up, I still can hear this noise. It almost sounds like a rattle. I hear it all over, but I think I mostly hear it from the intake manifold...its hard to tell.
Here is a video of the engine and the noise...you have to listen carefully. It happens when the engine rev's up..but then will go away. The noise seems to happen as some kind of "frequency" and not at other times.
If you have a counter when watching the video...you can start to hear it more so, after half way though. The times are 2, 5, 9, 17, 21, 28...but those are all the times of reving up the engine.
The video is 4MB...so might take a while to download.
View My Video
I'm going to start another thread on just this noise because I don't know how many people are still following this thread.
Thanks!
I rebuilt the carb...now the gas flows out both injectors and it idles fine...HOWEVER, I'm still having a problem.
When I first start the car up, it idles really rough..in fact if you don't give it some gas, it will die. It's also mis-firing, and blowing out smoke (mostly out of the passenger side exhaust. It also makes this sound that I can't identify.
Once it runs for a while and gets warmed up...the noise calms down, it idles better, and there is no smoke. However when I rev the engine up, I still can hear this noise. It almost sounds like a rattle. I hear it all over, but I think I mostly hear it from the intake manifold...its hard to tell.
Here is a video of the engine and the noise...you have to listen carefully. It happens when the engine rev's up..but then will go away. The noise seems to happen as some kind of "frequency" and not at other times.
If you have a counter when watching the video...you can start to hear it more so, after half way though. The times are 2, 5, 9, 17, 21, 28...but those are all the times of reving up the engine.
The video is 4MB...so might take a while to download.
View My Video
I'm going to start another thread on just this noise because I don't know how many people are still following this thread.
Thanks!
11-21-2010, 06:13 PM
#36
Safety Car
Ok...here is an update...
I rebuilt the carb...now the gas flows out both injectors and it idles fine...HOWEVER, I'm still having a problem.
When I first start the car up, it idles really rough..in fact if you don't give it some gas, it will die. It's also mis-firing, and blowing out smoke (mostly out of the passenger side exhaust. It also makes this sound that I can't identify.
Once it runs for a while and gets warmed up...the noise calms down, it idles better, and there is no smoke. However when I rev the engine up, I still can hear this noise. It almost sounds like a rattle. I hear it all over, but I think I mostly hear it from the intake manifold...its hard to tell.
Here is a video of the engine and the noise...you have to listen carefully. It happens when the engine rev's up..but then will go away. The noise seems to happen as some kind of "frequency" and not at other times.
If you have a counter when watching the video...you can start to hear it more so, after half way though. The times are 2, 5, 9, 17, 21, 28...but those are all the times of reving up the engine.
The video is 4MB...so might take a while to download.
View My Video
I'm going to start another thread on just this noise because I don't know how many people are still following this thread.
Thanks!
I rebuilt the carb...now the gas flows out both injectors and it idles fine...HOWEVER, I'm still having a problem.
When I first start the car up, it idles really rough..in fact if you don't give it some gas, it will die. It's also mis-firing, and blowing out smoke (mostly out of the passenger side exhaust. It also makes this sound that I can't identify.
Once it runs for a while and gets warmed up...the noise calms down, it idles better, and there is no smoke. However when I rev the engine up, I still can hear this noise. It almost sounds like a rattle. I hear it all over, but I think I mostly hear it from the intake manifold...its hard to tell.
Here is a video of the engine and the noise...you have to listen carefully. It happens when the engine rev's up..but then will go away. The noise seems to happen as some kind of "frequency" and not at other times.
If you have a counter when watching the video...you can start to hear it more so, after half way though. The times are 2, 5, 9, 17, 21, 28...but those are all the times of reving up the engine.
The video is 4MB...so might take a while to download.
View My Video
I'm going to start another thread on just this noise because I don't know how many people are still following this thread.
Thanks!
The cold misfire and rough running can be either of 2 things:
First- if you have to pump it to keep it running, then the choke is too lean
Second- if you open the throttle and the fast idle smooths out, then your fast idle speed setting is too low. Increase your fast idle speed.
Last edited by 65tripleblack; 11-21-2010 at 06:21 PM.
11-21-2010, 07:02 PM
#37
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
The sound I am hearing is more like a rattle. I don't hear a "snap".
I have tried adjust the choke manually by moving it with my hand to see if it smooths out. That's not it...cause if I move it to any other position, it runs worse or dies. It likes where its at.
Secondly, after it is warmed up, it runs fine..its not misfiring. Its like I have to clean out the cobwebs before it will run right.
I have tried adjust the choke manually by moving it with my hand to see if it smooths out. That's not it...cause if I move it to any other position, it runs worse or dies. It likes where its at.
Secondly, after it is warmed up, it runs fine..its not misfiring. Its like I have to clean out the cobwebs before it will run right.
11-21-2010, 07:26 PM
#38
It's always a problem starting a car up after a considerable amount of time. Couple things to consider. 1) You will have zero oil pressure if you crank it up without first priming the oil pump. I always took the distributor out and turned the pump with an extension I made for my drill. Having no oil pressure while running will do severe damage to your motor. The first to go is your rods. 2) The next problem is fauled/stale fuel in your tank. This stuff will raise havoc with your carb or fuel injection system, causing the engine to run, if at all, real rich. I'd drain the tank, rebuild your carb or FI system, and check your rod and main bearing clearances.
Last edited by bdhulderman; 11-21-2010 at 07:40 PM.
11-21-2010, 07:42 PM
#39
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I rebuilt the carb - it did have crap in the bowl. Also didn't help that the fuel filter wasn't fully seated so it let stuff go into the carb. The carb now is working great.
Did the same thing with a drill on the oil pump
Haven't checked the rods/bearings....I'm still in the gathering info stage.
Car seems to run fine once its REALLY warmed up.
Did the same thing with a drill on the oil pump
Haven't checked the rods/bearings....I'm still in the gathering info stage.
Car seems to run fine once its REALLY warmed up.
11-21-2010, 08:03 PM
#40
Team Owner
Member Since: Mar 2003
Location: Greenville, Indiana
Posts: 26,118
Received 1,843 Likes
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I wouldn't bet the carb is now working great. It may still have some junk in one of the passages. Just because the accelerator squirters are working on both sides doesn't mean the idle circuit or cruise circuit is clear.
