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Old 01-16-2011, 08:50 AM   #41
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Aren't the original Grand Sports slightly smaller overall than a stock Sting Ray, perhaps for aerodynamic and weight reasons?

Or do stock C2 panels, though thicker, "match up"? A coupe door, for example, in the GS opening?
I've seen this in print a few times, but it just isn't true. The Grand Sports are the same size as their production counterparts.

That's not to say they are exactly the same shape. They aren't. Stock C2 panels won't "match up".

I suspect (but can not prove) the story about the reduced size started after Bob Paterson made some subtle alterations to the shape of #003 to get better aerodynamics. If you look at the car, you do perceive that it's smaller than a Sting Ray, but this is just an optical illusion created by Bob's modifications.

Jim
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:56 AM   #42
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Those door handles looks exactly like those on my 59 Chevy truck.
Could they be 60`s truck handles?
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:01 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by groovyjay View Post
Thanks Jim for the extra information, didn't know about the round corners on MAI cars as well.

So based on what we have learned above this is a MAI car?:




Another MAI car feature is the door handles, I don't know where they come from (what car?) but Mongoose seems to use stock Corvette handles.

Stock firewall and most of all it has the MAI style brakebooster/mc re-locator piece.

No question about it, yes, this is an MAI car.

I'm not following you regarding the door handles. All repop coupes use door handles from late '50s or maybe early '60s GM pickup trucks. These are the correct shape but heavier than those used on the original cars. The roadsters use stock door handles..... perhaps this is what you have seen?

Regarding the MAI brake booster mount.... that is a scary, dangerous piece.

It's flimsy, permitting the master cylinder and booster to jiggle up and down. The 90 degree bellcrank is also flimsy, and will flex if you really stand on the brake pedal. And if all that wasn't enough, the pivot bolt will rapidly wear the holes in the bracket to an egg shape.

All of this is fixable, and I'll be glad to help anyone with an MAI car modify their booster bracket to make it safer.

Jim
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:09 AM   #44
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Jay, I've seen pictures of this car before and it intrigues me. Do you know anything about it? I believe it is in Europe somewhere.

What I see tells me that it is a very early D&D. It's got the dropped nose and (from other photos I've seen) I know it also has the hard molded front brake vents..... not found on many D&D cars.

I'd love to know what serial number this one is. Do you know?

Jim
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:56 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by jim lockwood View Post
Jay, I've seen pictures of this car before and it intrigues me. Do you know anything about it? I believe it is in Europe somewhere.

What I see tells me that it is a very early D&D. It's got the dropped nose and (from other photos I've seen) I know it also has the hard molded front brake vents..... not found on many D&D cars.

I'd love to know what serial number this one is. Do you know?

Jim
I've seen that two times on the track in Germany, don't know that much more about it. I could ask the german corvetteforum if they'd know more about it.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:02 PM   #46
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I've seen that two times on the track in Germany, don't know that much more about it. I could ask the german corvetteforum if they'd know more about it.
Please do. Anything you could learn and share about that car would be appreciated. I'm curious also about what it uses for brakes and whether it still retains the stock but mangled C4 steering rack.

I just reviewed all my photos of early D&D cars. Besides our prototype, that one is the only other one I've seen that has the molded front brake scoops. Curious.

Jim
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:08 PM   #47
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The first visual clue is the vent windows - MAI cars usually have the production movable vent windows, and D&D/Mongoose/Sonny's cars have a fixed Plexiglas vent window (and Plexiglas side window).

D&D also had an optional front spoiler; I had one made for mine, but eventually opted not to install it, as the original cars didn't have it.

The coupe door handles are from a '51 Chevy pickup.

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Old 01-16-2011, 02:41 PM   #48
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The first visual clue is the vent windows - MAI cars usually have the production movable vent windows, and D&D/Mongoose/Sonny's cars have a fixed Plexiglas vent window (and Plexiglas side window).

D&D also had an optional front spoiler; I had one made for mine, but eventually opted not to install it, as the original cars didn't have it.

The coupe door handles are from a '51 Chevy pickup.

Thanks for that information. Man we are getting good at this. What's the story behind Sonny's cars?
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Old 01-16-2011, 02:54 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by jim lockwood View Post
Please do. Anything you could learn and share about that car would be appreciated. I'm curious also about what it uses for brakes and whether it still retains the stock but mangled C4 steering rack.

I just reviewed all my photos of early D&D cars. Besides our prototype, that one is the only other one I've seen that has the molded front brake scoops. Curious.

Jim
I posted the query on the German vette board. I'm sure someone will know something about that car.
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Old 01-16-2011, 03:21 PM   #50
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Another thing I noticed on the Nassau blue coupe with Webers is look at the grilles around the windshield wipers . Seperate pieces that screw on like the normal Corvette items. The D&D cars have molded in grilles. --------Ken
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Old 01-16-2011, 03:26 PM   #51
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Another thing I noticed on the Nassau blue coupe with Webers is look at the grilles around the windshield wipers . Seperate pieces that screw on like the normal Corvette items. The D&D cars have molded in grilles. --------Ken
Good eye Ken! As far as quality goes the MAI parts are a lot thinner than the Mongoose parts I'm using and the quality with the Mongoose stuff is much much better. I wish they would have been around when I ordered the fully assembled body kit from them, instead of patching up the MAI kit...
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Old 01-16-2011, 03:34 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by jim lockwood View Post
No question about it, yes, this is an MAI car.

I'm not following you regarding the door handles. All repop coupes use door handles from late '50s or maybe early '60s GM pickup trucks. These are the correct shape but heavier than those used on the original cars. The roadsters use stock door handles..... perhaps this is what you have seen?
I went back to look at some of my pics and it seems like you are right, those pick up truck door handles are only seen on coupes! And my roadster with the recessed door handles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim lockwood View Post
Regarding the MAI brake booster mount.... that is a scary, dangerous piece.

It's flimsy, permitting the master cylinder and booster to jiggle up and down. The 90 degree bellcrank is also flimsy, and will flex if you really stand on the brake pedal. And if all that wasn't enough, the pivot bolt will rapidly wear the holes in the bracket to an egg shape.

All of this is fixable, and I'll be glad to help anyone with an MAI car modify their booster bracket to make it safer.

Jim
I have one from Jeff, it is very poorly put together, the welds are just awful. It's welded off not true and it's very heavy. I got a new one made out of aluminum (billet) and it's a sturdy piece yet very light.
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Old 01-16-2011, 03:36 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by keystonefarm View Post
I'll be ordering my Mongoose GS in the next two weeks . I'll let you know. I believe all the Mongoose cars come from the molds with the cutoff flares. Not sure about the front spoiler. I know that Mongoose offers one. I will have one on mine as I noticed the difference years ago when I installed one on my 66 that I ran in SCCA. Makes a great place to pick up air for front brake cooling and helps keep the front end down over 150 mph. One thing I learned about the D&D cars is that Dean replicated the bump inside the rear compartment where the originals had the cooling duct for the rear brakes. I never noticed that before. ----------- Ken
You won't regret, I've dealt with the Mongoose guys during my build and bought a lot of stuff from them. Gary is great guy to deal with!
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Old 01-16-2011, 04:47 PM   #54
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One thing I learned about the D&D cars is that Dean replicated the bump inside the rear compartment where the originals had the cooling duct for the rear brakes. I never noticed that before. ----------- Ken
He did that right from the very beginning. I didn't understand what that interior feature was until I went crawling in and around #003 when it was apart for restoration a few years ago. That's when I had the light bulb moment.

Anyway, here it is in our prototype:




And this is inside #003:



I'll give Dean (and, I suppose, Dante) credit.... they did a darned good job of discovering and duplicating the details of the originals when they developed their first body molds. They could easily have omitted this detail, and few would have ever noticed, but instead they chose to include it.

Jim
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:37 AM   #55
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Is the GS kits using the same frame mounts as on a original frame?

Meaning can i put a Moongoose or MAI chassie on a 1965 original frame?

Also is there any birdcage or is it a roll cage?
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:35 PM   #56
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Jim, do you know what the origin of your front sway bars are on your D & D? Since our D & Ds have been narrowed 2 inch on each side the stock C4 bar I have is to wide for the mounting locations on the lower a frames and I don't know what bar to buy.

I have been wondering if a 1984-1988 front bars will work but I don't think they will work either.

Jeff
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:31 PM   #57
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Jim, do you know what the origin of your front sway bars are on your D & D?
Jeff,

Our D&D came to us assembled and running so I can't say with certainly what bar is on it. However, it's been my long-held understanding that front bars from '84 to '87 are shorter (narrower, if you will) than '88 and later bars.

A few years back I installed an early C4 bar on D&D #094 (which I believe has been narrowed) and had no trouble getting the end links to align with the mounting holes in the lower A-arms.

Jim
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:38 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by keystonefarm View Post
Another thing I noticed on the Nassau blue coupe with Webers is look at the grilles around the windshield wipers . Seperate pieces that screw on like the normal Corvette items. The D&D cars have molded in grilles. --------Ken
The D&D cars have separate screw-attached vent grilles (laser-cut from aluminum), surrounded on all four sides by the upper surround, like the original GS cars had. The front edge of the vent grilles on production cars are exposed, and form the rear edge of the hood opening. Don't know what Jeff does on the MAI cars.
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Old 01-17-2011, 04:45 PM   #59
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D&D GS #069 is for sale on ebay again. It is the one built for Tim "The Toolman" Allen. It has an all aluminum 377 with webers. Is this the car that was mentioned earlier in this thread about the front airducts?

Ed
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Old 01-17-2011, 05:06 PM   #60
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Is this the car that was mentioned earlier in this thread about the front airducts?

Ed
No it isn't.

Our prototype has the molded front brake ducts as does a similar looking car that is over in Europe, possibly Germany. The European car is the only other GS I've seen with these ducts and it is an early car also.

Jim
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