CP64365

Does anyone make good quality points anymore. I just ordered a set of Accel #8101 points and condenser. When it arrived I looked at the points and the contact radius was offset by at least 50%. I bought a set of Napa brand points about 1.5years ago and they did not mate up well either, but they were not off my 50%. I guess quality control for low volume car parts, does not exist anymore. Can anyone tell me which brand (part #) of points they buy. I have a 64 coupe with the L76 engine and solid lifters.

Before everyone starts suggesting to with an electronic ignition, which I am seroiusly thinking about, I would still want a good set of points as a backup even if I had the electronic ignition. Thanks.

MikeM

Go back to NAPA and get a set of Echlin points. They come in standard or heavy duty (spring tension).

GTOguy

Or get some NOS Delco points off of ebay or on-line. They do pop up. I've had good luck with them, as well as NOS condensors. The new stuff is generally poor quality.

vettsplit 63

Or as a last resort, you could change it over to a Per..... never mind

plaidside

I use in my cars Standard Ignition DR2371XP, which is a heavy duty version of their regular DR2270P set.
Joe

Donald #31176

An article from SWduke

Default NAPA Echlin ignition points (contact set)
Over the years there has been confusion over the various contact sets sold by NAPA under the Echlin brand. There are a total of six applicable to Delco single point distributors not including the "uniset" that combines the points and condenser in a single assembly. NAPA also sells a price leader line called Mileage Plus and a couple of other sets in different brands.

You can see them all at www.napaonline.com

TDB member and NAPA jobber Tim Schuetz of Waukesha, WI also wanted to get to the bottom of it, so Tim sent me four of the six part numbers for analysis in boxes marked CS86, CS89, CS786P, and CS7860.

Armed with a three-pound spring scale, mic, caliper, multimeter, and plain screw driver to partially disassemble the breaker arm leaf springs for measurement, I offer the following measured and visual observations. A summary of the measured data follows the discussion. All have screw type terminals rather than using the breaker arm spring to secure the wires like the old Delco D106P, a design I never cared for, but the old Delco D106PS has a screw terminal.

Achieving consistent breaker arm tension readings required a little practice, and I found than listening to Bach during the measurements improved consistency.

CS86: This set is listed on the Web site as "standard" and is equivalent to the OE points installed on single point Corvette distributors before '73 when the uniset became OE. The breaker arm tension is speced at 19-23 oz., and in addition to the main leaf spring, which is non-magetic or just slightly magnetic indicating stainless steel, there is a thin parallel leaf that appears to be copper and is likely there for conductivity. It is too thin to add breaker arm tension.

CS89: This set is listed on the Web site as "high performance" and appears identical to the CS86, but main breaker arm leaf is .002" thicker, which increases breaker arm tension to equal the 28-32 oz. of the long-discontinued Delco D112P.

CS786P: This set is listed on the Web site as "vented", but the set in the box was not vented and is most likely the CS786 discussed next. Other than the perforated contact pads, the CS786P is likely identical to the CS786. Vented points have been around for decades, and the theory is that they run cooler, which extends point life, but I have no personal experience and have never seen a scientifally conducted test.

CS786: This set is listed on the Web site as "heavy duty" and has larger contact pads, which increases contact area by about 43 percent. Also, the breaker arm is a different design - different geometry - which made measuring breaker arm tension difficult, but it's basically the same as the CS86.

CS7860: This set is also listed on the Web site as "high performance", and has the same spring thickness and breaker arm spring tension as the CS89, but it has some different construction details. The other three sets' breaker arm springs are retained to the breaker arm by a 90 degree tab that fits into a slot in the breaker arm. This set has no tab. Rather, the end mounted to the breaker arm is longer allowing it to be secured to the breaker arm with the rivet that retains the rubbing block. It does not have the thin copper parallel spring, but I could find no difference in resistance with my ohmeter that measures to about 0.1 ohm. All are essentially zero to 0.1 ohm resolution. The insulator is red rather than white on all the others, and the adjustment spring has blue Loctite.

This set also has another interesting feature. Packaged with the capsule of grease is a small felt pad with a slot. The slot fits over the rubbing block, and the instructions say to grease both the rubbing block and felt pad. This should help retain grease and should be included with the other sets in my opinion. Despite this extra feature and what appears to be somewhat more robust construction, this is the least expensive set of the six!

CS7860C: This set is listed on the Web site as "racing only", and I suspect it has higher than 32 oz. breaker arm tension. Since the 32 oz. sets will go to at least 7200 revs in a snug distributor, this set should not be necessary for any road-going Corvette with something close to an OE engine configuration.

Part.........Spring.....Spring.......... .Contact.. ...Web site..............Online
number.....tension,...thickness,......di ameter.... comment.............price
...............oz..........in........... ......in.

CS86........24..........0.018/.006.....0.152".......standard.......... ....$16.49
CS89........32..........0.020/.006.....0.152".......high performance...$21.49
CS786......24...........0.018/.006.....0.185".......heavy duty..........$15.69
CS786P....---...........----/-----......------......vented................$16.49
CS7860.....32..........0.020/---.......0.152........high performance...$14.99
CS7860C...---.........-----/---........-----........racing only...........$16.49

My basic usage recommendations are as follows:

1. Engines with redlines up to 5500 and the 1.8 ohm ballast - CS86.

2. Engines with redlines up to 5500 and the 0.3 ohm ballast - CS786. The additional contact area might reduce the tendency to burn up points, which is not uncommon on systems with the 0.3 ohm ballast, especially in cold weather. Ballast resistance decreases with decreasing operating temperature and vice versa.

3. Engines with redlines over 5500 - CS7860. This set is less expensive than the CS89 and has some better features.

Proper distributor operation is necessary for peak engine performance - everything from idle quality to making it to the redline with no spark scatter or ignition breakup. It's possible that if you have a freshly blueprinted distributor, a standard tension set will make it to 6500 in a mechanical lifter engine, but in my experience, maximum high rev performance in mechanical lifter engines requires a 32 oz. set. As with many tuning parameters, what works in your distributor for you boils down to the condition of your distributor, your driving habits, and maybe some experimentation. My bet is that a majority of single point distributors out there are in need of a blueprint overhall, which has been discussed on the TDB many times. If the ignition system doesn't deliver a properly timed spark of sufficient energy for all engine operating conditions, the engine will never achieve peak performance and fuel economy. It's that simple!

Nominal point life is about 30K miles, but can vary widely depending on ignition system configuration and condition. Since most of our cars have low annual mileage accumulation, it's a good idea to check that there is still some lubrication for the rubbing block at least every couple of years, and while you're at it, check point resistance and dwell angle. Dwell angle changes will effect initial timing, so checking initial timing is also a good idea after you have you checked and, if necessary, adjusted the points. Throw in the idle speed/mixture adjustment procedure and you've done a "minor tuneup" in less time than a wash job.

A hearty thanks to Tim Schuetz who said he doesn't want the test samples back. My plan is to auction off the CS86 and CS786 at our So. Cal. Chapter meeting next month and donate the proceeds to the chapter, but for the time being, I'm going to hang on to the CS89 and CS7860.

Duke

MikeM

I remember when he wrote that. I wouldn't disagree with any of it.

I believe Standard Parts bought Echlin and the Standard Parts point set Plaidside is probably identical to one of the Echlin parts.

Powershift

Go to Ebay and buy a set of Delco-Remy D112P. Good for 6000+ RPM. They normally have a least one person selling them every time I check.

I have run these points in my cars for over 40 years, with no issues yet. Don't expect any in the near future either.

Larry

MikeM

They are good points if you can find them.

GTOguy

I still have a few sets of D112P's socked away.....been running them in my GTO's since the late '70's. Never a problem. I have had problems with customers cars in the past with unisets....the condensor likes to back off, giving problems. I never run unisets in any of my GM cars.

Powershift

I also ran the Accel points during the early years when they were top quality.

I currently have 2X lifetimes of D112P points sitting in the garage on the shelf, so I should never need to buy another set. However for the OP, http://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-67-68-69-70-Chevy-Corvette-High-performance-Points-1966294-D112P-/231468014721?hash=item35e4919c81&vxp=mtr
Current price is higher than I like to see/pay, but they should last for many (many) years or many (many) thousands of miles in these seldom driven cars.

Larry

Donald #31176

Another good point set are BW 112HP

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BWD-A112HP-Ignition-Breaker-Points/380334724986?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D4f4995c79c864a5da74fc4c3b10a3ba3%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D380334724986

MikeM

That reminded me to put back a couple of sets of points so I bought a couple. Price was okay.

vettsplit 63

This thread got me to thinking- back in the day, I had put in a set of D106HP points in my 375-396 Chevelle. It was a few days in between installation and the first time I went out to do some street racing. At 5800 rpm's it was like you turned the key off! We chased that round and round, putting valve springs in the car, checking fuel pressure, float levels, etc. Finally had a guy with a Sun machine check the car out. He said 'It's fine". Then I revved it up past where he was checking it, at about 5500, and it fell on it's face. Evidently those points have a low tension spring, even though they had a ventilated contact point. Threw them as far as I could, and put back in a set of D106PS and it would wind as far as I felt safe with the motor- close to 7400 with the 1st design L88 cam.

Powershift

I have never seen D106PS go to that RPM, but I know there D112P will take it there.

Larry