tyoneal

Hello Grand Sporters!

I've been emailing back and forth with BFGoodrich about seeing they would consider increasing their 15 inch diameter tire offerings.

=====================
For the Track these look to be some of the better ones. (Found these in my notes. Thanks to whom ever offered this information
=====================
Mickey Thompson S/R series 26x10RLT front and 26x12RLT rear or Avon 245/60VR15 front and 295/50VR15 rear

=====================
For the Street
=====================
I know that the BFG Drag Radial in 325/50/15 was looking good as a possible replacement for the BFG 305/50/15 that was discontinued.

I tried to get a hold of someone that could shed some light in the performance that could be expected out of these tires.

As much as I would like the letters to flow better, they are what they are.

Anyway here is what I have so far.

***The emails were cerated from bottom to top.***


Albin:

Thank you very much for returning my email and for sending the information you did. I think I may have miss-communicated some of the information I was trying to acquire. Please forgive this oversight, I would like to add to your letter below (IN RED) and have posted all our correspondence at the bottom of the page for your review.

Personally, I am looking for a tire supplier that can provide the proper size, and handling characteristics, combined with a high speed rating, so I can have confidence that when I go out to drive at high speed, I have 4 good safe tires underneath me.

First I will try to explain exactly what is needed and why, who is in the market, and which of your existing product lines that could help meet this demand. There are literally NO Good Choices Available Anywhere for this niche from any manufacturer.

Many enthusiast have to resort to going to large Diameter Wheels to get what they need. This sound like it would be a great idea, but these cars didn't come with these sizes of wheels and tires, and it takes away from the Character of the Car, the Visual Appeal, and the "Vintage" experience of this period in time. Further, in some events they are no allowed to be used.

Coker has tried to meet part of this segment of the industry with the reproduction for some of the older tires. This said, they offer virtually nothing in real high performance tires.
======================================== ==============
Below Please find a list of your products that would be reasonable candidates for the MANY older cars that are driven by Sport Car enthusiast.

Like there is a "Tuner" market, there is also a large "Vintage" car market also. The same tires could be used for both as long as the width of the tire for the rears fall into the (275 mm-325 mm) range, and the width of the Front Tires fall into the (235 mm-275 mm)range, are available in a 15 Inch Diameter Wheel. The 50 - 70 Profile height, and a speed Rating of at least an "H" plus, with a preference of the higher ratings such as, "V", "Z", "W", etc. would really give the buyers some great choices.

There are many events around the country that include, Rally Driving, "Track Days", Auto Cross, Drag Racing, and Road Race oriented activities. Many venues have multiple events that people can participate in. The problem is, there are very few tires for people to use during these gatherings where people can put on a great tire, drive to the event, compete with everyone, then drive home afterwards.

It is not at all uncommon that multiple sets of these tires a year would be required by each driver. The tires wear out quickly because of the "Spirited" driving that is a part of these gatherings.

Please take this into consideration. If you search on the internet at all, you will find that there are hundreds of these meets around the country each year, for a variety of older cars from the 1950's, through the 1970's.

I would be happy to make a list of organizations, meets, types of cars etc., that are typical in this growing market, if it would help further our conversations.
======================================== ==============
http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire-...orce-r1-tires?

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire-...e-sport-tires?

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire-...ort-a-s-tires?

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire-...a-s-h-v-tires?
(V-Rated for speed)

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire-...a-s-h-v-tires?
(V-Rated for Speed)

======================================== =======
Evidently not good for, "Oval/Road Race Track" work other than "Strip/Track" (Straight Ahead No Turning)
http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire-...-radial-tires?

(This is the ONLY tire with a decent choice of sizes in a 15 inch tires)
======================================== =======

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire-...t-a-kdw-tires?

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire-...-a-kdws-tires?

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire-...ial-t-a-tires?
(Would need at least a "H" Speed Rating or Higher (Preferred)

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire-...-a-spec-tires?
(Would need at least a "H" Speed Rating or Higher (Preferred)

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire-...ing-t-a-tires?
(V-Rated)

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire-...ion-t-a-tires?
(V-Rated)

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire-...-a-spec-tires?
(V-Rated)
======================================== ========
End of Candidate Tires
======================================== ========

On May 25, 2011, at 1:13 PM, BFGoodrich Consumer Care wrote:

May 25, 2011



Hello Ty,



Thank you for your email. We welcome the opportunity to serve you.



The BFGoodrich G-Force Radial is designed for track work and is DOT approved from the track to home. However in your email, you mentioned several questions of concern. 1: Fuel-2:handling-3:braking-4: comfort-5-wear

Performance Ratings: What's This?
Wear Life
2
Fuel Efficiency
1
Handling
4
Braking
5
Comfort
5


These were not areas of concern for me as such, as these were just lifted off the web page of the characteristics that BFGoodrich has chosen to use to describe their tires. I mentioned these because I didn't understand how this information was helping sell your tires to the public. I do understand that these attributes were a good thing for the customers to understand about your products however.
======================================== ========
As you mention in the "What's This?" part of the box.

"Performance Ratings:

Performance Ratings are calculated by BFGoodrich on a scale of 1 to 10 and are reflective of the various tire

lines' strengths within the overall BFGoodrich portfolio"
======================================== =========
This said, other attributes for this tire were listed as:
======================================== ==============
g-Force T/A™ Drag Radial
Tuner
Summer Tires

The original street-legal world record setter.


Proprietary drag-racing compound has devastating grip.

1) Grip off the line, stability through the trap.


Equal TEnsion Containment (ETEC) System™ resists centrifugal force to maintain a consistent footprint.

2) Radical appearance


Drag racing tread design

3) High-speed stability and control, plus more cornering performance for improved overallhandling and balance.


Special radial-carcass construction

4) Helps resist centrifugal force to promote the consistency of the footprint, which maintains tread contact area for maximized grip off the line.


Equal TEnsion Containment (ETEC) System™ resists centrifugal force to maintain a consistent footprint.

======================================== ========

Item: (IN RED) IMO this seems to be telling me that this product also focuses on "Cornering Performance", "Overall handling", and "Balance". This is what prompted the following questions:


What exactly does this mean?

What was being measured, and what was the standard these were being compared to?

What data is available explaining clearly how these tires perform?

Are these tire good for sustained speeds of 150 mph, for over an hour? If not, what speeds are these tires safe to and for how long?

On a 3000 pound car, what kind of lateral acceleration are these tires capable of?

Are they safe on a road race track in competition where street tires are mandatory?

Since you had the Negative characteristics apparently scientifically analyzed,

"Performance Ratings:

Performance Ratings are calculated by BFGoodrich on a scale of 1 to 10 and are reflective of the various tire

lines' strengths within the overall BFGoodrich portfolio"
I wanted to know, using a similar method, how the positive attributes stood up in a similar comparison. It is very difficult to understand what is trying to conveyed, if different methods of description are used. That is why I asked the questions.

I do appreciate the information you shared with me, and the clarity brought to all of my questions. I infer from this letter that these tires, at this point in time, would probably not be the best choice for my needs.

Let me know if this is wrong.

If you wouldn't mind, is there anyway I can help the marketing department acquire the needed information to decide if our Automotive needs is something that they would consider supplying?

I would be happy to work with them, or do what I can promote a dialog between them and the people whom they would consider their best source of information?

Please forward this to them, and if you wouldn't mind, copy me on the email. I would like to follow through with it to make sure that these issues get to the right people, and make sure that they are aware of this market need.

I sincerely look forward to working with you and BFGoodrich in anyway I can.

Best Regards,

Ty O'Neal
======================================== ====
First of all, the BFGoodrich G-Force T/A Drag Radial is designed for straight line track use where as comfort, braking, wet traction and wear would not be as an important aspect for a drag racing tire as oppose to a regular street tire that would offer the comfort for round town driving or the wet braking; including wear etc. When you purchase a drag radial tire, like the BFGoodrich T/A Drag Radial, it is a racing tire that would not perform in the above aspects as well, including fuel efficiency but will perform for you at high-speed stability and control in straight line drag racing.


Unfortunately, we do not have any data to share with you on our BFGoodrich T/A Drag Radial for track use performance at this time.

The BFGoodrich G-Force T/A Drag Radial does not have a max speed limit use and is only designed for straight line racing. Using this design off track where it could come contact with water is not recommended.

You mentioned in your email about lateral force for the BFGoodrich G-Force T/A Drag Radial. Unfortunately, we do not have any numbers to assist you with lateral acceleration. However, we do recommend that when you are in a wet box, the normal heat cycle is around 3 seconds. Yet, acceleration and lateral force will depend on vehicle mechanics and other tools.

Depending on what other sizes that consumers are looking for, all we have available today is what is on our web-page. However, we would be more than happy to forward any additional sizes to our Marketing Department for future consideration.

We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing BFGoodrich.

It is our goal to ensure that your issue has been resolved or your question answered to your satisfaction. If we can assist you further, please respond to this email or call us at 1-877-788-8899 (toll free) between 8:00AM and 8:00PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday or between 8:30AM and 4:30PM Eastern Time on Saturday.

Sincerely,

Alvin
Consumer Care Department
Certified BFGoodrich Product Expert

PS: It's important that you get all the safety-related materials that come with the purchase of new BFGoodrich passenger and light truck tires. If you did not receive a warranty book, you can download one atwww.bfgoodrichtires.com/bfg/tireWarranty.do. If you did not register your tires, please take a moment to do so at www.bfgoodrichtires.com. Registering your tires is easy and takes just a minute.

Participate in the following survey for a chance to win a BFGoodrich ball cap. A random drawing will take place at the end of each month. The winner will be contacted via e-mail to verify the shipping address.

Paste the line below into your browser:


Privacy Policy - http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/bfgap...ps/privacy.jsp
(Please include the line below if you reply to this email.)
Case number: 2870199


======================================== ===============
Dear Colesta:

Thanks for returning my email.

I have a few other questions I need some answer to.

The Chart

Performance Ratings: What's This?
Wear Life
2
Fuel Efficiency
1
Handling
4
Braking
5
Comfort
5

Shows that these tires perform highest in braking and comfort (5 Rating) followed by Handling (4 Rating), Wear Life (2 Rating) and lastly )Fuel efficiency with a 1 rating.

These scored are based on a scale from 1 (Being the Lowest Possible) to 10 (being the Highest Possible) Looking at this it seems to be telling me that these tires do not perform very well on anything.

Can you shed some light on why this is posted supposedly to impress possible buyers?

When it is mentioned that:

"High-speed stability and control, plus more cornering performance for improved overallhandling and balance."

What exactly does this mean?

What was being measured, and what was the standard these were being compared to?

What data is available explaining clearly how these tires perform?

Are these tire good for sustained speeds of 150 mph, for over an hour? If not, what speeds are these tires safe to and for how long?

On a 3000 pound car, what kind of lateral acceleration are these tires capable of?

Are they safe on a road race track in competition where street tires are mandatory?

Is there any way of getting some addition sizes made for more options to choose from. There are many people in the Vintage Street Car Performance/Racing market that NEED more 15 inch tire choices that are performance oriented.

Please provide me with some extra information regarding these issues.

Thanks,

Ty O'Neal

======================================== =======


On May 24, 2011, at 2:16 PM, BFGoodrich Consumer Care wrote:

May 23, 2011

Hello Ty,

Thank you for your email. We welcome the opportunity to serve you.

We are sorry that you are having a problem navigating on our website.

The BFGoodrich g-Force T/A Drag Radial comes in two different tread designs. Some people refer to the NT (new tread) as the g-Force T/A Drag Radial2.

Tire sizes P275/50R15 and P325/50R15 is only available in the (TT) traditional tread design. The tread design showing on our website is the NT (new tread).

Please click on the link below for more information on the BFGoodrich g-Force T/A Drag Radial tires.

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire-...-radial-tires?

We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing BFGoodrich.

It is our goal to ensure that your issue has been resolved or your question answered to your satisfaction. If we can assist you further, please respond to this email or call us at 1-877-788-8899 (toll free) between 8:00AM and 8:00PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday or between 8:30AM and 4:30PM Eastern Time on Saturday.

Sincerely,

Colesta Carr
Consumer Care Department
Certified BFGoodrich Product Expert

PS: It's important that you get all the safety-related materials that come with the purchase of new BFGoodrich passenger and light truck tires. If you did not receive a warranty book, you can download one at www.bfgoodrichtires.com/bfg/tireWarranty.do. If you did not register your tires, please take a moment to do so at www.bfgoodrichtires.com. Registering your tires is easy and takes just a minute.


(Please include the line below if you reply to this email.)
Case number: 2870199
==================================

If you have any thoughts, comments, or suggestions, please speak your mind and I'll include it with my next email. It's too bad the formatting didn't transfer over. If you have a hard time reading this I'll try and get it corrected for you.

Thanks,

Ty

jim lockwood

Ty,

I can't think of any event for which your GS would be eligible that mandates street tires.

If you are thinking of non-competitive open track events (AKA "lapping days", "track days"), these are 100% run-whacha-brung events. Show up, go driving. Nothing more. You want to run street tires? Well, OK, but you are going to be pretty slooooowwwww. You want to run full-on racing slicks? Knock yourself out.

At vintage events, at least the ones for which historic accuracy is emphasized (like left coast HMSA events, for example), there are strict tire rules that specify you must use racing tires..... Hoosier TD, Avon, or Goodyear vintage tires. Street tires aren't permitted.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by your comment. Taking it at face value, though, what I wrote applies.

Jim

keystonefarm

Ty you probably got the Avon and Mickey Thompson info from Me. Just like Jim said . Running a track day can be done with street tires but don't expect to keep up with those with race tires. If you want your GS to be able to do vintage racing and street duty then two sets of tires will be the only choice. I came up with the street 15'' tire versions from talking with people with Cobra's !!! There are many, many more of them than GS's out there but a large number of them use almost the same size tires as we do. Some put thousands of miles per year on their cars so wear, wet and dry traction are more easily measured by them. Cars are about the same weight and hp in most cases.
A number of those guys run Goodyear Billboards on the street and they are race tires. Race tires have very thin sidewalls and not much rubber thickness on the tread area so while they can be run on the street they can also go flat in a hurry and do not get caught in the rain with them !!! Using rain type race tires has also been tried but they usually have a very soft rubber in their makeup so wear in the dry becomes the problem.
It's my opinion that BFG , Goodyear and others are abandoning the 15'' market as it is shrinking. Newer brakes require larger diameter wheels 17'' and up. All the new cars have 17'' or larger diameter wheels and thats the big market. The market for 15'' high speed rating performance tires is just not big enough anymore .
Mongoose will be building a new GS for me this summer. I am still bouncing back and forth between the vintage look with 15'' rubber which requires for me a narrowed suspension front and rear . Or the 17'' rubber which allows a brake upgrade and much improved handling BUT looses the vintage look. I'm even considering a narrowed suspension 17'' wheel version !!! The 17'' tire would look better if a 45 series were still available. Almost all are now 40 series which give the band aid look.
Too many choices !!!!! ------------------- Ken McCorry

Mr. Wizzard

I ran across these guys (http://www.etwheels.com/index.html) about a week ago. This weekend, I'm going to do some measuring and have them make a set for me with the offest i need to keep the rubber under the fenders. If they work, I may not do all the suspension work quite yet.
I've had one conversation with them, and you basically fill out their information sheet and they build the wheels to order. They said 2-3-weeks on delivery, so I'll probably order some next week and I'll let you guys know how they work out.

Mr. Wizzard

I believe the blue/white car on this web site has the Team III wheels on it.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/315623...rolet-corvette

Bill GS

Ty I bought the MT tires of the size you mention and found the rear did not fit the car - too small. I now have Mickey Thompson Sportsman S/R 25x10.00 R 15/ LT front and 28x12.00 R 15 LT Sportsman S/R rear.

tyoneal

=========================
Ken:

Thanks for the Information.

I will wind up with two myself after looking at everything. I have dome thing with my Camaro as well. The race rubber would be a blast, but I don't want them on my car at all for the street. Heaven forbid someone runs into me, and the cops see I have illegal tires on the car.

No Thanks!

The Rain won't be an issue one way or the other as I doubt I will be driving it in the rain unless I'm caught out somewhere like the Hot Rod Power Tour of something like that.

It looks like for not the 305/50/15's id a no go. BFG just isn't going to do them anytime soon.

For a Vintage look on the street, I can always put the 235 F/275 R on the car, and 15 inch tires are easy enough to find. Then for the track just buy some good track tires.

Ty

tyoneal

=================================
Those wheels are bice.

I have always had a soft spot in my heart for Mini-Lites.

1965fuelie

Check out the Hoosier Pro Street tires.
I have them on my pickup truck after a pretty long search for the right sizes. I ended up with a set of Hoosier Pro Street
with 27x10.50R15 front and 29x12.50R15 rear. I guess these sizes would fit a Grand Sport very well.
Just the right fat look from back in the days

tyoneal

===========================
Thanks for bring them up:

I'll check them out and see what the specs look like.

Thanks a million.

Ty

n1kon

Ty, If money is no object the Avon cr6zz tires are the best DOT 15" tires you can buy. 245/60 and 295/50 are the right sizes.


That car is not running TeamIII wheels. It has PS Engineering 17" GT40 Bolt-on wheels found on many Mongoose cars.

You can see that car on RCSPEEDPAINT's site and they have a full gallery.

Mr. Wizzard

My eyes are getting old fast...
Here's some info on the TeamIII wheels for Factory Five's cars:
https://factoryfiveparts.com/product...age=1&featured

n1kon

Wizzard,
Both wheels look great but I feel I may like the TeamIII wheels better mainly because they have that neat lug nut cover to give the illusion of a true K.O. wheel. Also, removing the pin drive adapter from your hubs will probably bring yours in by about .25" or so. On a side note...do you plan on putting some decals and number roundels on your solid white car? I think I remember seeing your car with the #4 and some period decals and it made it really pop.

Mr. Wizzard

The knock-off adapters are .375" thick. I've calculated that with their 3.5" (front) offset, it'll move the front tires inboard 1.5", which will look good.
In the rear, I can't move anything further inboard with the Toyo Drag Radials. There's only about 1" clearance between the tire sidwall and the front pivot bolts for the trailing links. The only way I can fix that is with a tire that doesn't have a width of more than 12-13".... and in 17", there's nothing else available that has a diameter in the 27"-28" range.
Right now, I'm looking at the GoodYear vintage race tires, which are available in the widths and overall diameters I'm after. This will also allow me to go with 15" rubber too, so the overall look would be "right".

keystonefarm

I made the final !! decision last week and told Gary at Mongoose to build me a chassis with a narrowed F & R suspension. I'll also use 15'' wheels and tires to maintain the old era look. He has my D&D at his shop and is taking measurements off of it so he can dupicate it. if a 45 series 17'' rear tire were still available I might have gone that route but still with a narrowed suspension. The Tim Allen GS that was on Ebay a few months back had a narrowed suspension with 17'' wheels. The extra offset and 45 series tires made all the difference visually.
----------------------- Ken

tyoneal

I have to thank you guys for being trail blazers regarding the tires. I'm still pulling hind tit behind you, however I will catch up soon.

Does anyone know when the Euro BFG 305/50/15 was discontinued? The nice thing about the tire is that their are so many many people who liked it, and the replica Cobra market continues, even in this screwed up economic time.

I would gather that there will always be a need for these sizes. I don't think it is out of the question that some of the smaller manufacturers could potentially pick up that size. The volume while low for BFG, would be pretty big big for a small company.

I should be receiving some new pictures anytime for my chassis. As soon as I receive them, I'll get them posted.

Anyway, thanks again for taking the lead.

Ty

FastEddy

Not a GS, but almost became one.

Heres the fattest street radial set up I was able to come up with for 15" wheels and a narrowed C-4 suspension. Took the one piece AR TT 10" wheels and widened them to 12" in rear, and 11" in front. Got lucky enough to find a set of four 275/50/15's to use for fronts, and use the widest thing still made for rears - 295/50/15's. Stretching the tires over these width rims removes all the lateral sidewall play in the tires, but also makes them ride like a low profile tire - stiffer. I love the grandsport look, but figured it would be too hard to fill the large flare openings with the small diameter tires available today, so I came up with these flares. I drive a lot of miles, so drag radials, and race tires were out of the question.

The Euro TA 305's (Comp TA's)were discontinued around 8 or 10 years ago. The 275/50's I run on front were discontinued around then too I think, and the cobra guys have grabbed up all the leftovers... The guys with the "Factory Five" cars that use the solid rear axle from mustangs need 'em - it's what fits the rear the best. A few co's make 265/50's, but they are a little bit short in my opinion....

keystonefarm

Fast Eddie, how much did you narrow the C4 suspension ? Also do you have coil overs or a narrowed transverse rear spring ? -------------Ken

FastEddy

Two inches - had each halfshaft shortened one inch. If I remember correctly, the jamison frame is setup to give you the same track as a stock c-2 with discs, so original wheels could be used with a stock body, although it seems most of them are built with modern style wheels and LS engines. I seem to remember a track of 59" front and rear.... but it was years ago that I checked those measurements. Custom backspaced 10" wheels would have been easier with these size tires, but I would have lost some depth in the look of the wheels, ending up with what would look like the 8.5" TT's - plus the one piece wheels look more like old school racing rims, and the two piece TT 2's look more like show car rims to me, with their polished rims, and smooth painted centers, instead of a machine finish rim, and rough finish center - plus when you are constantly washing off brake dust, the rougher finishes hide water spots better, and don't beg to be polished constantly

I have coilovers - non-adjustable - at the time Jamison had two choices for spring recommendations that they used - touring, and track. I chose the touring as a starting point because I was pretty happy with the orig stock spring rates (after cutting 1" off front springs) with 1.25" and .875" swaybars for the street/backroads running I do - too stiff in a convertible just twists the body around too much - and this frame is probably not as stiff as a GS frame. I still have to find out from Jamison what the spring rates actually are, even though I think they may be ok, but I definitely need to be able to adjust the dampening for my taste. I think the choppy ride complaint I hear about coilovers must come from guys running springs that are too stiff? I still remember the fist C-2 I drove that had a fiberglass rear spring, and the ride was terrible - way too choppy - figured he must have gone with a track type spring rate, which is miserable on the street, and won't make you any faster on backroads that are not smooth like race tracks.... can't hold your line if a tire is leaving the pavement..

I am also using the early style C-4 rear camber bars because I actually need to retain that increase in camber they provide as the wheels head towards the fenders, to keep the tires from hitting the flares - something I imagine a GS body would not need with this wheel tire setup.

sub006

I feel the pain. I run 255/70 X 15 T/A's on 8" Rallys for my Suburban, good handling and ride plus 60-70,000 mile life. And I'm worried they might be discontinued. I do have some 16" Ronal rims, but not many sizes available in base T/A's for 16". Maybe the discontinued 15" sizes will migrate "upstream".

Ricers might be of assistance, if they start putting WIDE 15" rims on the littlest import sedans and coupes.