Frankie the Fink

I discovered that my '61 (although it rides and "sits" just fine) has nom-OEM leaf springs on it. They are 3-leaf springs (from God knows what) and one of the leaves on the passenger side is cracked. Sooooo I scored some original C1 springs from a forum member that he had removed and stored for 35+ years. Looks like just removing some light surface rust and rebuilding will do the trick on these items.

A few questions (and yes -- I did a forum search with few related results):

1) I think the springs are fine but how can I tell if they need re-arched ?
2) What treatment or paint color was done to the springs by the factory ?
3) Can anybody share a technique to "reband" the springs with hand tools ?

JohnZ

1. If you strike an imaginary line from the center of one eyehole to the other in the free state, the drop from that line to the top of the spring should be 5-1/2" to 5-3/4".

2. As delivered to St. Louis, the rear springs were completely assembled; the top leaf was painted silver, and the other three were painted semi-gloss black. The top leaf had a splotch of yellow on the outside of the silver top leaf forward eyehole, and the bands were stainless steel, with unpainted rubber gaskets. Most of the spring was covered with chassis blackout paint just prior to Body Drop, but not many owners choose to do that.

3. Signode makes the manual banding tool; some currently-available bands are more correct than others.

jimh_1962

Hey Frank,

Those are alot better than my extra set. The ones on my car... Beadblast powdercoated and rearched by a professional. Check your area and have someone re arch them for you. Also, I have an extra binding kit. Do not need it if you need a binding kit.

Not NCRS though look good.

Frankie the Fink

Thanks John & Jim...the free arch (which I just measured) is at 5-1/2" on each spring so looks like I got lucky on that score. Just now got the leaves separated and again only surface rust on the insides of the leaves. I think I can paint, rebush the springs, put new spacer material between the leaves, rebind them and I'm "good-to-go" !!

There is a spring shop not too far away in Tampa and I'll probably just hop over there and have them rebind them once I've done everything else...

If anybody has good advice on how to get that big "pin bolt" out of the front shackle I'm all ears...I have the nut and lock washer off but the bolt doesn't want to budge (its soaking in "Kroil" penetrating oil as I write)...

Frankie the Fink

Got the binding kit -- however if you (or ANYBODY) has an extra 3-4 of those little round metal "slugs" that go in the fiber padding material between the springs I'd love to get some. Seems a few of mine wandered off (24 required for a set of springs) and I was VERY careful during disassembly so I'm sure they just weren't there anymore !!

DZAUTO

Frank,
Just by observing the pictures, it would appear that your assessment is an excellent way to go. Obviously, if the springs have set with no weight/stress on them for 35yrs, then the likelyhood of them sagging when you install them should be minimal or non-existant.

Tom Parsons

Frankie the Fink

Thanks Tom - as always your advice and counsel is appreciated. I think I lucked out on this set of springs...little used, not pitted/corroded or cracked and the right part numbers to boot !
Pays to be patient (I've been on the prowl for a set of these for a year or so).

Now if I could just find the infamous "609" water pump for cheap?!

rich5962

Frank, I'm pretty sure I have a box with the original liners I saved from the '59 restoration. I'll check later and drop you a note if I find any.
Rich
p.s. Be careful you don't round off the serrated edges of the heads of the front spring bolts. They lock into the bracket, somewhat like a wheel stud in a hub. Also be careful if you use poly bushings. I used those and squeaked badly, even with extra silicone lube. I changed them back to rubber.

Plasticman

Note that the poly bushings from PST are graphite impregnated and do not squeak. Have been using them for 10 years.

http://www.p-s-t.com/

Note that they DO have them for the C1 rear leaf springs, but their online listing sucks......$49 for a set on page 5 of their Spring 2011 catalog. Best to just all them. 877-226-4101


Plasticman

Frankie the Fink

Rich - I had to beat those front mount "pin bolts" out of the bracket with a mallet...even hitting them with a nut on the end of the thread it tore them up pretty badly...I've ordered brand new ones and also a "rebuild kit" with liners, new bands (rebound clips), rear shackles, etc. so I'm good on that score. I hope the new liners have the small metal "slugs" or something equivalent else I'll have to fabricate a few...

And yes I already have new rubber bushings - didn't want any noise nor a harsher ride. I also think I'll need the extra flexibility of the rubber to get the bushings installed....there is some slight corrosion in the leaf eyes I've treated with Ospho but it'll be a battle to install the bushings I'm thinkin'.

Interesting way to hold up a rear axle in your pic BTW....

rich5962

Plasticman......Thanks for the lead about PST. I wish I got those at the time.

Frank, I found a bunch of those pieces if you need any. Yes I had trouble with the bolts too. Yours must have been rusted in pretty good.

....my axle hauler? yes it worked pretty good....... I just rolled it into position and used the lift on the frame to align everything for the spring hookup. Of course no rebound straps were in the way.

How are you doing all this with the body on the car? I had to use ratchet straps over the shock mount crossmember to compress the axle to get the front brackets lined up. When I changed back to rubber bushings everything was mounted, but the body was off.

Rich

Frankie the Fink

Let me see what comes in the rebuild kit and if I'm missing something I'll ping you to see if you have it. I intend to follow the procedure in an old NCRS Corvette "Restorer" article on removing/replacing the springs that a forum member was nice enough to provide...I'll have to get another pair of jackstands though (I only have two)...but I can use them anyway... My rebound straps look like new but I'm not going to trust them to hold the weight of the rear axle with me moving around under there - don't need the drama.

I noticed the note in the '61 AIM that says you only torque down the nut on that front bracket "pin bolt" after the weight of the car is on the wheels....hopefully that keeps that knurled portion from turning while you are tightening the nut.

jimgessner

Frank,
My research shows the alluminum bands in your photos were used in the GM Service replacements springs, so your set may be original 'cross the counter' service parts. Originals used a steel band clamp.

Frankie the Fink

I think the bands are probably replacements; the springs are original which is what I really care about...both sides sport the correct 3751438 GM part number.

rich5962

This is what my originals looked like. As John mentioned they were SS. The replacements I used were not exactly as original, but were close. I used a modified tool to attach them......was a PITA. More pics Here
Rich

Frankie the Fink

That's exactly what the clips looked like that I just removed from the original C1 springs I bought...these springs were in storage for well over three decades so I'm pretty sure all the stuff is right off the assembly line.

I looked at your pics of installing the clips...more fun than a sharp stick in the eye. If I can't get that Tampa shop to install my clips I may want to borrow that tool (and your brain) for a while...

Frankie the Fink

Well springs are painted and drying and I have all new hardware, clips and liners for installation. Zip has the best deal going with the spring liners....correct 'waxy' cardboard with the built up piece to go in the spring groove, center bolt hole is already punched, metal slugs are already installed. Each liner has correct metal tips and wrapped in muslin on the far ends. Nice pieces and one more thing I don't have to fabricate !

All new, graphite-impregnated, poly bushings are on order too...

Solid327

What is the purpose of the metal disks? I don't recall mine as having them but then again I delivered the springs still banded together to Eaton for reconditioning. As it turned out, mine didn't need re-arching but when I got the leaves back from Eaton, there were no discs returned. I have no way to know for certain if the springs had been relined previously but I doubt it given the miles, less than 100k, on the car. If the discs had been there, I'm sure Eaton would have included them when they returned the leaves.

I painted, and rebanded them myself, (sans the discs, of course) and I opted for all black, since the chassis black would be applied over the silver. My liners have the metal ends but they weren't muslim wrapped, (Paragon).

I'm not sure how the NCRS or BG judges them and I've seen them painted both ways and including the yellow splotch on the front of the eyehole, which it seems would be "blacked out" with the chassis black. Maybe John can elaborate further.

Did you check the dates for your springs? It would be interesting to know if you got lucky there too.

Frankie the Fink

Not quite so lucky on the dates and my car is a '61....the code stamped on the smallest leaf from each side is "339 E 7". So they were made by Eaton (hence the "E") on the 339th day of 1957...

But after looking for an original set for about 14 months I had to give in and snap these up since the price was so good and they had sat idle (off the car) for over 3 decades...hence they are in first rate shape (including the arch).

If I had to guess (I've seen nothing in print) I think the four steel 'slugs' around the center bolt hole of each spring are to prevent the 'stack' of springs from completely crushing the rather flimsy cardboard liners at the point where the center bolt is tightened down.

The NCRS Restorer article that I followed does indeed use the muslin at the end of the liners (which are boiled in paraffin apparently). BTW - the center hole in each cardboard liner is NOT equidistant from each end....soooo the long end of the cardboard liner should match the long end of its companion spring !

My car is VERY original and I work to keep it that way but is not an NCRS-judged car....and never will be while I own it... I have all the original parts stored but upgrade/modify things as I see fit for driveability and comfort.

mickatbp

This is from another post regarding spring rebanding and what I did that work really well (and some stuff about the banding tool):

I did a post on these about a month ago, bought an american copy (not Chinese) of the Original American tool for $10 US, the Original type cost about $300. Got it posted to Australia for $30 so $40 all up was a very good price. I banded my springs a little differently than every one else suggested and worked at real well. Email me if you want to know how I did it at michael.stumpf@bigpond.com . Basically I fitted the new spring liners (with some rubber grease on both side of each liner and then clamped the spring together then measured up the size of the rubber which goes under the band cut it to size and joined the ends together over the spring assembly with rubber 'O' ring super glue - so I didn't have to worry about trying to hold this while crimping. In fact I cut them maybe 1mm smaller so they were a nice fit around the springs - this stops them from gathering once the band has been crimped.

Next I measured the four sides of the springs with the rubber in place and bent the band in my vice with 4 nice 90 deg bends - do this with all bands. No the trick - unclamp the spring assy and remove the liners by sliding them out one end - hence the grease before(remember the rubber supports are now in place with the ends glued and can't be removed) then reclamp the spring assembly. Push the rubber supports as far as you can to the thinnest part of the spring area they are located in, put the crimp over one end of the band and gently ease the two straps over the rubber (the bands on the same end of the spring) and engage the crimp in the other end of the band - you may need a small clamp to keep the band correctly positioned as stretching it over the springs does deform the band a bit. Position the crimp centrally over the band and using a pencil mark a line on the spring on each side of the band to help centralise the crimping tool over the crimp. I also pushed a long piece of metal shim between the band and rubber otherwise the crimping to can bite the rubber and it looks s _ _ t. if you do this then put your pencil marks on the shim.

Once you begin crimping you will see that the tool pulls the band away from the spring during the crimping process and if you leave the liners in place then the crimped band is slack once the tool has been removed. I then pushed the liners back in past the now crimped bands, moved the clamp closer to where the remaining band need to be crimped to clamp this section of the spring - repeat steps to crimp this band and then remove clamp and GENTLY push the liners in place and insert the spring centre / clamping screw.

I know this sounds very complicated but the end result is absolutely perfect.

The ebay store I got the banding tool from is 'E_Liquidators' and the tool is listed as 5/8” MIP Crimping Tool Strap Sealer Banding Crimper.

I would also buy some extra strapping and have as many practice goes as you can until you are 100% happy with the band and crimp and if your old rubber banding support is okay then use this as part of your practice goes.

Best of luck with it once you get the hang of it it is quite easy