james holley

the other night I was watching something about muscle cars on the speed channel. They were saying 69 & 70 cudas with 440 six pack or 426 hemis were the fastest of the fast muscle cars. I had a 67 427 vette back in those days that never ever lost a street race to no body at no time including the afore mentioned mopars. Sure it had a professionaly built engine, but on the streets all is fair in love and war. Question, in stock form, what kind of quarter mile times could we expect with a 4 speed 427,390 horse? Thanks :cool:

63Corvette

67 427/435, 3.70 with M21. 13.57 @ 109mph. Stock! In 1967 or 68.

Tom73

Car & Driver Yearbook 1967, '67 Vette 427/435 4-speed 3.36 rear, qtr mile 12.8 @ 112 mph, 0-60 in 5.4 sec.

Motor Trend April 1967, '67 Vette 427/435 4-speed 3.55 rear, qtr mile 13.8 @ 104 mph, 0-60 in 5.5 sec.

So a full second difference in ET but only .1 sec difference in 0-60. Looks like the C&D car was really coming on strong in the top end with it 3.36 rear running 8 mph faster.

tom...

KingRat

I believe it was the '66 425 horse car that ran the quarter in 12.8 @ 112 mph with 3.36 gears.

sixtyseven427

The Mopar 440 6-pack and 426/425 Hemi cars were consistently faster in a straight line than the Corvettes of that era in stock trim. The best speed bang for your buck in U.S. auto history was probably the 1969 1/2 Roadrunner 440ci/390hp 6-pack car which consistently ran in the high 12's with no modifications regular street tires and was pretty inexpensive ( I think about $3400). In addition to the widely distributed Cudas, SuperBees, Challengers, and RoadRunners Chrysler also produced a series of "for the street" Super Stock cars (via Hurst) that were not only faster than Vettes but were the fastest 1/4 mile cars in the country straight off the showroom floor. In particular the 1968 Hemi SS Darts and Barracudas were capable of low-mid 10's with no modifications and were completely legal for the street. They were tough to drive around town with their 13:1 compression but almost every one of these factory "race" cars was driven to the track, raced, and then driven home.

I definitely think the Vette was a much better car in terms of braking, handlng/cornering, and overall performance (not to mention MUCH better looks) but it seems like Chrysler was putting their engineering dollars into torque and straight line acceleration while Zora and the folks at GM were thinking about the overall driving experience and racing on the oval track.

A previous post mentioned that the 12.8 sec 1/4 mi time was for a 1966 425hp car , not a '67 435hp and that is correct. Car & Driver claims to have run a '66 427/425 at 12.8 in late November 1965 but my article claims that the trap speed was 112 mph.

396 RAT

Agree- the Hemi's were faster, when they were in tune
& running good. A combination not everyone could achieve.
So on the street it went either way, depending on the particular car.
Another fast car on the Street/ track was the 68 1/2, 69 -70
Mustang 428 Cobra Jet & SCJ. About the only car I probably shouldn't
have sold (4 spd, shaker, locker). Smoked quite a few Dodges in that car. But again, it all depends
on the specific example. Magizine numbers are not gospel, but does make for some fun bench racing. Old orig write ups can have results that differ up to a second or more on the same year, model, optioned car? Modern tires alone
change the equation. This is bench racing at its finest! This is "Global"
Bench racing! Who would have thunk it! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


[Modified by 396 RAT, 7:10 AM 5/15/2002]

Tom73

I took those times from the CorvetteArchive, http://www.corvettearchive.com

That time was for a 67, not a 66. Now they may have previously tested a 66 which ran the same time, but what I quoted (12.8@112) was for a '67 from their 67 Yearbook.

tom...

396 RAT

http://www.cccvette.com/1965musclecars.htm

Check out this bench racing link.
(works for me!:lol: )

This link sums up the whole bench racing question.
Who do you believe? Were the cars provided to the mags
really stock production cars? Check around this site a bit
& tell us what you think?

StrayDog

My 1966 , 427 turned 13.7 et @ 102 MPH last year at oldies day at the drags....308 rear, street tires, 2.6 60 foot time , 9.5 compression ratio & 390 HP , L36 cam..............wieght 3080 LBS, without me in it & 1/2 tank of gas...........this winter A CAM will be installed as winter project...XE262, OR High Energy 268 , want a cam with good tourque, kepping 308 rear gears, @ a 6000 redline. :yesnod:

Mike66

Here's a good link with times for lots of different cars:
http://www.motortrend.com/sept99/mem...morable_f.html

[shameless Buick plug] Compare your favorite car from the 60's & 70's to the '70 Buick GS... :eek: [/shameless Buick plug]

Mike

Rair67

How about the Buick GN? didn't that car pull off some 10-11 sec times??

Mike66

Not quite, but to see how a lightly modded Turbo Regal fared against some pretty heavy hitters...
http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/...708AUTKAP.html

Mike

KingRat

Actually- Muscle Car Review listed the top 50 fastest muscle cars as posted in car magazines in the 60's. They listed the 427 Cobra at 12.2 @ 118 mph (time was supplied to Car & Driver by Shelby) as the fastest with the afforementioned '66 vette as second. They did miss several quarter mile times like the '67 L89 that went 12.9 @ 110 in Car & Driver.

Classicvette63

I wonder how much of the diparity in times for a particular car between different mags has to do with oneupsmanship. One mag trying to beat another to sell more copies.

Also, the cars they test aren't "exactly" like the ones you and I can buy. I remember reading an article about a hemi that a mag tested. I didn't perform as well as they had expected. Mopar flew a tech from Detroit out to look at the car. The guy(I think his name was Kirchner) did a tune up on it in the parking lot of the hotel. He knocked something like a full second off the 1/4mi. time. That car was tuned better than you or I could dream about. Still makes for good reading, though. Besides, what would we have to talk about if everything was cast in stone and there was no doubt about which car is fastest? :) Classic

Mike66

The best example of this is the article that argueably started the whole muscle car thing... where Car and Driver (I think) compared the '64 Pontiac GTO to the Ferrari GTO and the Pontiac whomped it. Turns out the Pontiac was little more than a factory built race car. C&D ran the story anyway and the rest is history.

Mike

396 RAT

Thats what I was saying in my above post "with the link".
It shows a 65 L78 going 4.8 0-60, with a 12.9 qtr.
Can the car do it? Yes. Can it do it as it came off the
show room floor? Thats the debate.
Have also seen the same car tested in the high 13's.
Some items that do not get mentioned too much
are Rear end gears, tires,exhaust & "tuning".
Hence, the issue of Global bench racing.
Only one way to find out who is faster.
Got to run 'em!
But it is good for the soul to trash talk
who's car is faster, reminds me of High school! :lol: :lol:
Then the race, end of debate.
This thread is really taking me back! :D
Used to get smoked by a V8 Vega wagon with a 327 and a powerglide.
(in the 70's)
Still burns me up! :mad :lol: :lol: :lol:

Blkblt

Fun stuff, guys!! :yesnod:

Anyone read the recent Motor Trend write-up on the new Lingenfelter (?) 427 C5???? :eek: :eek: Yours for only about $170k, it'll run on the street, do 0-60 in less than 2 seconds, 9.5+/150+ quarter (street slicks), burn street tires through 100 mph, beats an F-18 through 150 mph, and gets about 25 mpg..............

I'll take two; in silver please........ :cheers:

******************

******************
Jeff
Ô66. Modified L72
0-60 in more than 2 seconds.....
Keep on :cheers: :seeya :seeya

63Corvette

I've already "replied" once, and I hate to re-reply, but I'd like to weigh in with my (somewhat suspect) memories of 1967. I am demonstratably NOT a drag racer, never owned slicks, however, If I remember correctly, racing Mopars went like this:
1) If a Hemi shows up on a trailer, don't even think aobut it. He's going to win. By miles.
2) If a Hemi shows up dirven to the track, I'M going to win. Period.

I raced some on the street. Not much. but one memory is of a 70 Hemi challanger with 4.10 gears and headers on
Westheimer road, in Houston. I thought he had a plug wire off. He jumped on it, and went right through a light because he couldn't stop. But he waited for me on the other side. We ran on a side street from Westheimer over to San Filipe. We ran three times. Each time, he took me off the line. I caught him in second, pulled even in third, and passed him in fourth. When we stopped in a church parking lot to talk, his passenger had wet himself. He kept saying; "we were doing over 140mph...on the city street!" The driver showed me his car, It was stick, and it was a HEMI! It did have headers, with a blown out gasket.
440 Six Paks were another story. They never got out of tune. I never beat them until I started running my L88 on the street. It had headers.

427435

All this bench racing reminds me of the old western saying----"There's never been a horse that couldn't be rode or a rider that couldn't be throwed!!" Same thing applies to drag races.

With most street drags (real drags too), getting a good launch is all important.
All the big blocks made enough power to smoke tires for quite a stretch if one was so inclined. The vette's of the '60's had one big advantage over the muscle cars of that era. Even with a 427, only 52% of the car's weight was on the front wheels leaving 48% for traction on the rear (plus of course, any weight transfer). The muscle cars were lucky to have 42-44% of their weight on their rears.

Of course now we get to suspension set-up. Can a car with 42-44% on the rear wheels be set-up to get enough weight transfer and traction to beat a "stock" vette of the '60's? Of course it could, but---given similar amounts of engine prep and suspension prep---I'd put my money on the vette because it started a much better weight distribution.

I mean there's a reason all the muscle car drivers like to boast they could beat a vette---that's because the 427 vette's of the '60's were the king of the jungle (and don't talk to me about Cobra's---I've never seen a real one in the 100,000+ miles I've driven my vette or the 1,000,000+ miles I've driven overall).

james holley

the 67 427 vette i had was a monster. the engine was professionall built by tom striplin of fresno. this thing would fly. i never raced anyone,including 426 hemi, or 440 mopar 6, pack that was even close. in those days the kawasaki 900 was the fastest bike in the world. my vette never lost to one. i sold that vette to a vette collector in san diego. he had about 30 vettes, all kinds. he said mine was the fastest car he had ever ridden in. im sure there was a true street car out there somewhere that could beat it but i never saw it. :cool: