Blowby question World Product Motor 415
04-05-2012, 07:53 AM
#41
Safety Car
By the time I opened this thread, someone had already suggested doing a leakdown test. No sense being an echo box.
Your quote:
"Yes he does I installed it PCV on one VC and a breather on other".
A "modern" PCV system uses manifold vacuum on one side of the crankcase and air inlet flow on the other along with a sealed crankcase. This setup creates a small vacuum (negative pressure) in the crankcase and is called a closed system.
The fact that you have an open breather on one valve cover means you will never draw a vacuum on the crankcase as your system is open. You have just a plain old crankcase vent no more effective than a road draft tube.
If you're really getting that much blowby past the rings that it pushes oil out the pan gaskets and past the rear main seal, that should be readily obvious by simply pulling the breather cap off and look for puffs of oil vapor (indicating 1 or a few cylinders) or a steady stream of vapor indicating all the cylinders are blowing by.
If you don't see the vapor coming out of the breather hole in the valve cover, try laying a flat piece of paper over the breather hole and see if your pcv vavle will pull the paper against the valve cover which would indicate little or no blowby. You have to have a sealed crankcase, including the dipstick for this to work.
I would do this last bit before I went to the trouble of doing a leakdown test because it's quick and easy.
Are you pushing oil out the valve cover gaskets or just on the lower end? Without seeing the engine, that's all I can come up with.
Your quote:
"Yes he does I installed it PCV on one VC and a breather on other".
A "modern" PCV system uses manifold vacuum on one side of the crankcase and air inlet flow on the other along with a sealed crankcase. This setup creates a small vacuum (negative pressure) in the crankcase and is called a closed system.
The fact that you have an open breather on one valve cover means you will never draw a vacuum on the crankcase as your system is open. You have just a plain old crankcase vent no more effective than a road draft tube.
If you're really getting that much blowby past the rings that it pushes oil out the pan gaskets and past the rear main seal, that should be readily obvious by simply pulling the breather cap off and look for puffs of oil vapor (indicating 1 or a few cylinders) or a steady stream of vapor indicating all the cylinders are blowing by.
If you don't see the vapor coming out of the breather hole in the valve cover, try laying a flat piece of paper over the breather hole and see if your pcv vavle will pull the paper against the valve cover which would indicate little or no blowby. You have to have a sealed crankcase, including the dipstick for this to work.
I would do this last bit before I went to the trouble of doing a leakdown test because it's quick and easy.
Are you pushing oil out the valve cover gaskets or just on the lower end? Without seeing the engine, that's all I can come up with.
His system is actually better than the older systems used in midyear Corvettes because it draws from one VC and supplies from the other. Early closed systems don't scavenge the rocker covers very well. As long as his breather has steel mesh and he keeps it clean, it is an excellent system.
Last edited by 65tripleblack; 04-05-2012 at 08:05 AM.
04-05-2012, 07:56 AM
#42
Safety Car
Mike you mentioned other leaks as well . Yes it has spit the bead of silicone out of the galley and intake once , VC gaskets and even the timing cover . My friend Mark the owner has had problems with this motor from the day it was installed 5 years ago I am the second guy who has been working on it . The first guy who installed it gave up on it long ago. Mark is a guy who will not tolerate bs very long he has the means to toss this motor with no regrets although I agree this motor can be fixed just not in the car 
Check your coolant for the presence of exhaust byproducts. If you don't have a test kit, then buy one. I have seen some cases where this test gave a negative result and it was found that there was indeed exhaust leaks within the engine. It works in most cases, however.
Last edited by 65tripleblack; 04-05-2012 at 08:03 AM.
04-05-2012, 08:40 AM
#43
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The only difference between his setup and an OEM system is that an OEM system replaces the breather with filtered air coming from the air cleaner housing. In both cases, the amount of manifold vacuum available for suction is regulated by the pintle in the PCV valve, which draws on the crankcase and almost always (except for backfire and certain periods during WOT running) creates negative pressure. In both cases, the inlet side of the system is at or very near atmospheric pressure.
His system is actually better than the older systems used in midyear Corvettes because it draws from one VC and supplies from the other. Early closed systems don't scavenge the rocker covers very well. As long as his breather has steel mesh and he keeps it clean, it is an excellent system.
His system is actually better than the older systems used in midyear Corvettes because it draws from one VC and supplies from the other. Early closed systems don't scavenge the rocker covers very well. As long as his breather has steel mesh and he keeps it clean, it is an excellent system.
I disagree that his system is better than OEM as he doesn't hold vacuum on the crankcase at all due to the fact that manifold pressure is almost always less that atmosphere. Evidently, the OEM's agree with my opinion.
I also disagree that the early systems don't scavenge the rocker covers well. Any engines I opened up with many miles on them don't bear that statement to be true if not exaggerated.
In any case, the crankcase vent system is not the culprit here.
04-05-2012, 10:17 AM
#44
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '12
Mike you mentioned other leaks as well . Yes it has spit the bead of silicone out of the galley and intake once , VC gaskets and even the timing cover . My friend Mark the owner has had problems with this motor from the day it was installed 5 years ago I am the second guy who has been working on it . The first guy who installed it gave up on it long ago. Mark is a guy who will not tolerate bs very long he has the means to toss this motor with no regrets although I agree this motor can be fixed just not in the car
04-05-2012, 11:39 AM
#45
Le Mans Master
Sixty4, I just re read this posting and I am curious, when this was new how did it run?
How was the power and did it have pinging/detonation issues.
9.5 to one should run just fine but if the timing was too aggressive, either too much too soon or total timing a few degree's high you may have fractured rings, detonation can break rings in seconds, it can be very violent.
Some of the tamer cams build pressure at lower RPM's and are far more able to detonate.
Fracturing the Compression Ring, Top Rings may not affect oil control which is performed by the Second Ring, the scraper ring and the Third ring your oil control ring.
I have seen fractured rings in Truck engines that run 8:1 compression and never rev over 4,000 RPM. It may be the engine is great and just needs rings. If your build sheet gives part numbers we can tell you what type ring was used. Most builders still use cast iron rings with Moly or Chrome faces. Performance engines need a Ductile Iron top ring to resist detonation damage with Moly face of course.
As Blockman pointed out there is a top and bottom to these rings, proper installation affects performance.
Since you have had failed, Timing Cover, Rear Main Seals, Pan Gasket and Intake I think it is clear you are pressurizing the block. Keep us posted, this one is a problem child that need to be corrected.
How was the power and did it have pinging/detonation issues.
9.5 to one should run just fine but if the timing was too aggressive, either too much too soon or total timing a few degree's high you may have fractured rings, detonation can break rings in seconds, it can be very violent.
Some of the tamer cams build pressure at lower RPM's and are far more able to detonate.
Fracturing the Compression Ring, Top Rings may not affect oil control which is performed by the Second Ring, the scraper ring and the Third ring your oil control ring.
I have seen fractured rings in Truck engines that run 8:1 compression and never rev over 4,000 RPM. It may be the engine is great and just needs rings. If your build sheet gives part numbers we can tell you what type ring was used. Most builders still use cast iron rings with Moly or Chrome faces. Performance engines need a Ductile Iron top ring to resist detonation damage with Moly face of course.
As Blockman pointed out there is a top and bottom to these rings, proper installation affects performance.
Since you have had failed, Timing Cover, Rear Main Seals, Pan Gasket and Intake I think it is clear you are pressurizing the block. Keep us posted, this one is a problem child that need to be corrected.
04-06-2012, 06:32 AM
#46
Safety Car
Continued bickering as well as open criticism of modertaion is just not the way to handle things.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/foru...conflicts.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/foru...conflicts.html
Last edited by vettebuyer6369; 04-06-2012 at 07:18 PM. Reason: online conflict, criticism of moderation
04-06-2012, 08:29 AM
#47
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '12
Continued online personal argument as well as reposting material that has already been deleted will not end well. Also, a post does not need "obscenity" to be deleted.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/foru...conflicts.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/foru...conflicts.html
Last edited by vettebuyer6369; 04-06-2012 at 07:14 PM. Reason: online conflict
04-06-2012, 03:41 PM
#49
Dr. Detroit
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I work at World products for six months back in 04'
The crate motor were built from blem blocks.
They dyno'd every one of them to break in the cam.
But that does not mean anything now.
Have you leaked it down yet?
The 415 use to use SRP pistons then they went to Mahle later on...and
went with a hastings moly ring set.
The parts in the motor are formidable enough.....but they were assembled by people barely making $13 an hour.
My best educated guess from having worked there is that the top ring(s)are in upside down.
This would seal for a spell....then just blow away...as the taper would be facing the wrong way.
Either way....you have to make a decision.
I say jerk the motor.......measure everything....and run a ball hone through it or take it and have the bore "kissed" a thou.
You could get out of this for nothing more than labor, gaskets, and ring set.
It is possible to fix this motor for as little as $250.
All Motown engines used Fel Pro head gaskets......they are not reusable unless they break free clean which never happens in a "cycled" engine.
This is my $.02....feel free to comment!
I am sorry for your misfortune....but I believe it may be time to punt.
Jebby
EDIT: All motown block are honed in a Rottler digital load hone.....with torque plates.
I know this because I bet I honed over 75 of them in a 6 month period.
I was actually one of their machinists. Just FYI.
The crate motor were built from blem blocks.
They dyno'd every one of them to break in the cam.
But that does not mean anything now.
Have you leaked it down yet?
The 415 use to use SRP pistons then they went to Mahle later on...and
went with a hastings moly ring set.
The parts in the motor are formidable enough.....but they were assembled by people barely making $13 an hour.
My best educated guess from having worked there is that the top ring(s)are in upside down.
This would seal for a spell....then just blow away...as the taper would be facing the wrong way.
Either way....you have to make a decision.
I say jerk the motor.......measure everything....and run a ball hone through it or take it and have the bore "kissed" a thou.
You could get out of this for nothing more than labor, gaskets, and ring set.
It is possible to fix this motor for as little as $250.
All Motown engines used Fel Pro head gaskets......they are not reusable unless they break free clean which never happens in a "cycled" engine.
This is my $.02....feel free to comment!
I am sorry for your misfortune....but I believe it may be time to punt.
Jebby
EDIT: All motown block are honed in a Rottler digital load hone.....with torque plates.
I know this because I bet I honed over 75 of them in a 6 month period.
I was actually one of their machinists. Just FYI.
Last edited by Jebbysan; 04-06-2012 at 04:24 PM.
04-06-2012, 04:24 PM
#50
Le Mans Master
I work at World products for six months back in 04'
The crate motor were built from blem blocks.
They dyno'd every one of them to break in the cam.
But that does not mean anything now.
Have you leaked it down yet?
The 415 use to use SRP pistons then they went to Mahle later on...and
went with a hastings moly ring set.
The parts in the motor are formidable enough.....but they were assembled by people barely making $13 an hour.
My best educated guess from having worked there is that the top ring(s)are in upside down.
This would seal for a spell....then just blow away...as the taper would be facing the wrong way.
Either way....you have to make a decision.
I say jerk the motor.......measure everything....and run a ball hone through it or take it and have the bore "kissed" a thou.
You could get out of this for nothing more than labor, gaskets, and ring set.
It is possible to fix this motor for as little as $250.
All Motown engines used Fel Pro head gaskets......they are not reusable unless they break free clean which never happens in a "cycled" engine.
This is my $.02....feel free to comment!
I am sorry for your misfortune....but I believe it may be time to punt.
Jebby
The crate motor were built from blem blocks.
They dyno'd every one of them to break in the cam.
But that does not mean anything now.
Have you leaked it down yet?
The 415 use to use SRP pistons then they went to Mahle later on...and
went with a hastings moly ring set.
The parts in the motor are formidable enough.....but they were assembled by people barely making $13 an hour.
My best educated guess from having worked there is that the top ring(s)are in upside down.
This would seal for a spell....then just blow away...as the taper would be facing the wrong way.
Either way....you have to make a decision.
I say jerk the motor.......measure everything....and run a ball hone through it or take it and have the bore "kissed" a thou.
You could get out of this for nothing more than labor, gaskets, and ring set.
It is possible to fix this motor for as little as $250.
All Motown engines used Fel Pro head gaskets......they are not reusable unless they break free clean which never happens in a "cycled" engine.
This is my $.02....feel free to comment!
I am sorry for your misfortune....but I believe it may be time to punt.
Jebby
I want to share what the Sealed Power Engineering staff says about ball hones, these are the guys that advise GM, Ford, Chrysler, and nearly every manufacturer how to prepare cylinders for good oil control including one guy that is known in the industry as the Lord of the Rings.
They advise to use ball hones for Mixing Paint and never in a cylinder.
They can show you Micro blow ups of cylinder finish and show you Ring Rotation and sealing patterns to back up what they say. The only people pushing ball hones are those that manufacture ball hones.
If the cylinder is not damaged and has good crosshatch modern rings will seal beautifully on the old cylinder. Again proven in testing and recommended by GM and other manufacturers. Old engines with old technology cast rings put a ton of wear on cylinders making rebuilds and new hones necessary for those old cast rings to seat.
Modern rings were introduced to OEM's in the early 80's pretty much eliminating the cylinder wear and taper we used to see.
In the aftermarket we still see low priced rebuilt engines sold with old technology Cast rings to save money, in these we still see wear and taper in 80,000 mile blocks.
If you want OEM type ring seal and life when you bore a block the block needs to be prepped by a quality honing machine. Sunnen and other companies make some high tech toys that do this but even with the best machines the operator is still the key to a great hone job.
A 25 year old Sunnen CK10 with a good operator that uses the correct stones can lay down a perfect hone with a 45 degree cross hatch.
The newer machines are more automated and the odds are even better to get a perfect cylinder.
Sorry for so many words but it seemed important.
04-06-2012, 04:47 PM
#51
Dr. Detroit
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Jebby, welcome aboard, pretty cool direct experience with World.
I want to share what the Sealed Power Engineering staff says about ball hones, these are the guys that advise GM, Ford, Chrysler, and nearly every manufacturer how to prepare cylinders for good oil control including one guy that is known in the industry as the Lord of the Rings.
They advise to use ball hones for Mixing Paint and never in a cylinder.
They can show you Micro blow ups of cylinder finish and show you Ring Rotation and sealing patterns to back up what they say. The only people pushing ball hones are those that manufacture ball hones.
If the cylinder is not damaged and has good crosshatch modern rings will seal beautifully on the old cylinder. Again proven in testing and recommended by GM and other manufacturers. Old engines with old technology cast rings put a ton of wear on cylinders making rebuilds and new hones necessary for those old cast rings to seat.
Modern rings were introduced to OEM's in the early 80's pretty much eliminating the cylinder wear and taper we used to see.
In the aftermarket we still see low priced rebuilt engines sold with old technology Cast rings to save money, in these we still see wear and taper in 80,000 mile blocks.
If you want OEM type ring seal and life when you bore a block the block needs to be prepped by a quality honing machine. Sunnen and other companies make some high tech toys that do this but even with the best machines the operator is still the key to a great hone job.
A 25 year old Sunnen CK10 with a good operator that uses the correct stones can lay down a perfect hone with a 45 degree cross hatch.
The newer machines are more automated and the odds are even better to get a perfect cylinder.
Sorry for so many words but it seemed important.
I want to share what the Sealed Power Engineering staff says about ball hones, these are the guys that advise GM, Ford, Chrysler, and nearly every manufacturer how to prepare cylinders for good oil control including one guy that is known in the industry as the Lord of the Rings.
They advise to use ball hones for Mixing Paint and never in a cylinder.
They can show you Micro blow ups of cylinder finish and show you Ring Rotation and sealing patterns to back up what they say. The only people pushing ball hones are those that manufacture ball hones.
If the cylinder is not damaged and has good crosshatch modern rings will seal beautifully on the old cylinder. Again proven in testing and recommended by GM and other manufacturers. Old engines with old technology cast rings put a ton of wear on cylinders making rebuilds and new hones necessary for those old cast rings to seat.
Modern rings were introduced to OEM's in the early 80's pretty much eliminating the cylinder wear and taper we used to see.
In the aftermarket we still see low priced rebuilt engines sold with old technology Cast rings to save money, in these we still see wear and taper in 80,000 mile blocks.
If you want OEM type ring seal and life when you bore a block the block needs to be prepped by a quality honing machine. Sunnen and other companies make some high tech toys that do this but even with the best machines the operator is still the key to a great hone job.
A 25 year old Sunnen CK10 with a good operator that uses the correct stones can lay down a perfect hone with a 45 degree cross hatch.
The newer machines are more automated and the odds are even better to get a perfect cylinder.
Sorry for so many words but it seemed important.
You also trumped me a bit in saying the ball hone is bad.....well....it is on a Motown...as it has quite a higher nickel content than a OEM block.
I will go further to say that if a pro machined OEM block is good for taper a ball hone work as good as the fella that is using it. It is a pain....but I once sealed a 400 Pontiac with such a tool....but the trick is the moly top ring.....the moly is just a coating....it seats quick.
But...there is no substitute for a Sunnen or Rottler......
And contrary to popular belief....running the fresh rings under the highest load possible is key for quick ring seal as well. The combustion gasses "press" the back of the ring under load to scrub and seat the assembly.
Ball hone is down and dirty....but if the bore is straight....it can work.
I recommend Total Seal for top rings as they make their own.....
Speed Pro is not bad either....I have used them in many race engines.
The 415 is 4.125 bore.....I believe you can find a pre-gap set....1/16,1/16,3/16
The nice thing about pre-gap is that you are not grinding .020 to get what you need....
more like .005 to .008.
Maybe this is TMI.....but I hope you find it useful.
Jebby
04-06-2012, 04:49 PM
#52
Banned Scam/Spammer
Thread Starter
I work at World products for six months back in 04'
The crate motor were built from blem blocks.
They dyno'd every one of them to break in the cam.
But that does not mean anything now.
Have you leaked it down yet?
The 415 use to use SRP pistons then they went to Mahle later on...and
went with a hastings moly ring set.
The parts in the motor are formidable enough.....but they were assembled by people barely making $13 an hour.
My best educated guess from having worked there is that the top ring(s)are in upside down.
This would seal for a spell....then just blow away...as the taper would be facing the wrong way.
Either way....you have to make a decision.
I say jerk the motor.......measure everything....and run a ball hone through it or take it and have the bore "kissed" a thou.
You could get out of this for nothing more than labor, gaskets, and ring set.
It is possible to fix this motor for as little as $250.
All Motown engines used Fel Pro head gaskets......they are not reusable unless they break free clean which never happens in a "cycled" engine.
This is my $.02....feel free to comment!
I am sorry for your misfortune....but I believe it may be time to punt.
Jebby
EDIT: All motown block are honed in a Rottler digital load hone.....with torque plates.
I know this because I bet I honed over 75 of them in a 6 month period.
I was actually one of their machinists. Just FYI.
The crate motor were built from blem blocks.
They dyno'd every one of them to break in the cam.
But that does not mean anything now.
Have you leaked it down yet?
The 415 use to use SRP pistons then they went to Mahle later on...and
went with a hastings moly ring set.
The parts in the motor are formidable enough.....but they were assembled by people barely making $13 an hour.
My best educated guess from having worked there is that the top ring(s)are in upside down.
This would seal for a spell....then just blow away...as the taper would be facing the wrong way.
Either way....you have to make a decision.
I say jerk the motor.......measure everything....and run a ball hone through it or take it and have the bore "kissed" a thou.
You could get out of this for nothing more than labor, gaskets, and ring set.
It is possible to fix this motor for as little as $250.
All Motown engines used Fel Pro head gaskets......they are not reusable unless they break free clean which never happens in a "cycled" engine.
This is my $.02....feel free to comment!
I am sorry for your misfortune....but I believe it may be time to punt.
Jebby
EDIT: All motown block are honed in a Rottler digital load hone.....with torque plates.
I know this because I bet I honed over 75 of them in a 6 month period.
I was actually one of their machinists. Just FYI.
! When I first got the motor they advertised how streetable these things were. They are probably great for track use but horrible for street use. This motor always had oil leaking issues (even blew it out from under the distributor. Just way over cammed and over carbed and from what you tell me assembled by kids! Looks like we will pull it and thinking about a 383 fast burn with the MSD atomic efi. I guess you live and learn? Thanks again!! I appreciate EVERYONES input on this.....
04-06-2012, 05:02 PM
#53
Dr. Detroit
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Thanks Jebby WoW ! When I first got the motor they advertised how streetable these things were. They are probably great for track use but horrible for street use. This motor always had oil leaking issues (even blew it out from under the distributor. Just way over cammed and over carbed and from what you tell me assembled by kids! Looks like we will pull it and thinking about a 383 fast burn with the MSD atomic efi. I guess you live and learn? Thanks again!! I appreciate EVERYONES input on this.....
! When I first got the motor they advertised how streetable these things were. They are probably great for track use but horrible for street use. This motor always had oil leaking issues (even blew it out from under the distributor. Just way over cammed and over carbed and from what you tell me assembled by kids! Looks like we will pull it and thinking about a 383 fast burn with the MSD atomic efi. I guess you live and learn? Thanks again!! I appreciate EVERYONES input on this.....The crank and rods should be Eagle....4340 stuff.
They ran shelf Howard flat tappets in these as well....you could go "up the page" in the catalog.
Take the block and have it honed.....run premium rings...and have someone knowledgable (not saying you are not) assemble it.
I get $600 to assemble a motor....some folks are higher or lower...but if the heads are done.....short block assembly is much less (try $350)
The 3.875 stroke crank in the 415 make killer torque....pull back on the cam...install your EFI and live happily ever after.
BTW....They were not kids...Long Island is just a tough place to live.
Jebby
04-06-2012, 06:19 PM
#54
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Last edited by vettebuyer6369; 04-06-2012 at 07:21 PM. Reason: argumentative
04-06-2012, 06:20 PM
#55
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I would fix the 415 my friend.....it is a stout unit.....you would be hard pressed to break anything.
The crank and rods should be Eagle....4340 stuff.
They ran shelf Howard flat tappets in these as well....you could go "up the page" in the catalog.
Take the block and have it honed.....run premium rings...and have someone knowledgable (not saying you are not) assemble it.
I get $600 to assemble a motor....some folks are higher or lower...but if the heads are done.....short block assembly is much less (try $350)
The 3.875 stroke crank in the 415 make killer torque....pull back on the cam...install your EFI and live happily ever after.
BTW....They were not kids...Long Island is just a tough place to live.
Jebby
The crank and rods should be Eagle....4340 stuff.
They ran shelf Howard flat tappets in these as well....you could go "up the page" in the catalog.
Take the block and have it honed.....run premium rings...and have someone knowledgable (not saying you are not) assemble it.
I get $600 to assemble a motor....some folks are higher or lower...but if the heads are done.....short block assembly is much less (try $350)
The 3.875 stroke crank in the 415 make killer torque....pull back on the cam...install your EFI and live happily ever after.
BTW....They were not kids...Long Island is just a tough place to live.
Jebby
I know nothing of the World Products blocks but that sounds like excellent advice!
04-06-2012, 06:25 PM
#56
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04-06-2012, 06:26 PM
#57
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Mike you mentioned other leaks as well . Yes it has spit the bead of silicone out of the galley and intake once , VC gaskets and even the timing cover . My friend Mark the owner has had problems with this motor from the day it was installed 5 years ago I am the second guy who has been working on it . The first guy who installed it gave up on it long ago. Mark is a guy who will not tolerate bs very long he has the means to toss this motor with no regrets although I agree this motor can be fixed just not in the car
Please toss it my way. I will pay freight and probably more!
04-06-2012, 06:35 PM
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Last edited by vettebuyer6369; 04-06-2012 at 07:20 PM. Reason: argumentative
04-06-2012, 06:36 PM
#59
Dr. Detroit
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The hardest part about removing the engine from one of these is removing the goddamn hood without scratching it...
After the hood is off....with a buddy....I can have one out in three hours.....the engine setback is a bit of a bitch too.....don't use the cheap Harbor Freight engine lift.....ask me how I know this.
Chain fall is best if you have the beam....
But I have picked them from the side with a roll around.....make sure you have the swivel hook
Jebby
After the hood is off....with a buddy....I can have one out in three hours.....the engine setback is a bit of a bitch too.....don't use the cheap Harbor Freight engine lift.....ask me how I know this.
Chain fall is best if you have the beam....
But I have picked them from the side with a roll around.....make sure you have the swivel hook
Jebby
04-06-2012, 06:47 PM
#60
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The hardest part about removing the engine from one of these is removing the goddamn hood without scratching it...
After the hood is off....with a buddy....I can have one out in three hours.....the engine setback is a bit of a bitch too.....don't use the cheap Harbor Freight engine lift.....ask me how I know this.
Chain fall is best if you have the beam....
But I have picked them from the side with a roll around.....make sure you have the swivel hook
Jebby
After the hood is off....with a buddy....I can have one out in three hours.....the engine setback is a bit of a bitch too.....don't use the cheap Harbor Freight engine lift.....ask me how I know this.
Chain fall is best if you have the beam....
But I have picked them from the side with a roll around.....make sure you have the swivel hook
Jebby