When is a Super Weatherstrip Adhesive not so super?
04-15-2012, 07:48 PM
#21
Race Director
This was scary reading......Sorry for the trouble you had. Frustrating.
I looked at the MSDS for the 3M 08008 W/S adhesive and the Dynatex 49429 products. see below.....Dynatex has 4 ingredients, 3M has 18. I'm not a chemist, just reading the MSDS's, but these are very different recipes IMO.
Dynatex uses 18% Acetone. 3M does not list Acetone as an ingredient. However, 3M uses a "trade secret" item for a similar percentage in theirs.
Acetone will remove paint. IMO the acetone evaporated before it could hurt anything when first applied. When the 1st coat was reactivated with the new bead that was put on, that's probably what took the paint off.
I've recently installed w/s using the 3M 08008 black adhesive. One coat on each side, then a reactivate coat on the rubber piece. No problems. This was on BC/CC. Brent, What type of paint on yours?
from: http://www.accumetricinc.com/dynatex/msds.asp
Dynatex 49429
Ingredient C.A.S. No. % by Wt
TOLUENE 108-88-3 20.1%
METHYL ETHYL KETONE 78-93-3 18.62%
ACETONE 67-64-1 18.25%
n-HEXANE 110-54-3 14.24%
from: 3m.com
3M 08008
SECTION 2: INGREDIENTS
Ingredient C.A.S. No. % by Wt
POLYCHLOROPRENE 9010-98-4 10 - 30
PHENOLIC POLYMER, NJ TRADE SECRET REGISTRY # 04499600-6305 Trade Secret 10 - 30
METHYL ETHYL KETONE 78-93-3 10 - 30
HEXANE 110-54-3 4 - 15
TOLUENE 108-88-3 5 - 10
MAGNESIUM OXIDE 1309-48-4 3 - 7
HEPTANE 142-82-5 1 - 7
METHYLCYCLOPENTANE 96-37-7 1 - 7
2-METHYLPENTANE 107-83-5 1 - 5
3-METHYLPENTANE 96-14-0 1 - 5
XYLENE 1330-20-7 1 - 5
CYCLOHEXANE 110-82-7 0.1 - 2
ETHYLBENZENE 100-41-4 0.1 - 1.0
ZINC OXIDE 1314-13-2 0.1 - 1.0
STYRENATED PHENOL 61788-44-1 0.1 - 1.0
ROSIN 8050-09-7 0.1 - 1.0
NEOHEXANE 75-83-2 < 1.0
BENZENE 71-43-2 < 0.05
===
I looked at the MSDS for the 3M 08008 W/S adhesive and the Dynatex 49429 products. see below.....Dynatex has 4 ingredients, 3M has 18. I'm not a chemist, just reading the MSDS's, but these are very different recipes IMO.
Dynatex uses 18% Acetone. 3M does not list Acetone as an ingredient. However, 3M uses a "trade secret" item for a similar percentage in theirs.
Acetone will remove paint. IMO the acetone evaporated before it could hurt anything when first applied. When the 1st coat was reactivated with the new bead that was put on, that's probably what took the paint off.
I've recently installed w/s using the 3M 08008 black adhesive. One coat on each side, then a reactivate coat on the rubber piece. No problems. This was on BC/CC. Brent, What type of paint on yours?
from: http://www.accumetricinc.com/dynatex/msds.asp
Dynatex 49429
Ingredient C.A.S. No. % by Wt
TOLUENE 108-88-3 20.1%
METHYL ETHYL KETONE 78-93-3 18.62%
ACETONE 67-64-1 18.25%
n-HEXANE 110-54-3 14.24%
from: 3m.com
3M 08008
SECTION 2: INGREDIENTS
Ingredient C.A.S. No. % by Wt
POLYCHLOROPRENE 9010-98-4 10 - 30
PHENOLIC POLYMER, NJ TRADE SECRET REGISTRY # 04499600-6305 Trade Secret 10 - 30
METHYL ETHYL KETONE 78-93-3 10 - 30
HEXANE 110-54-3 4 - 15
TOLUENE 108-88-3 5 - 10
MAGNESIUM OXIDE 1309-48-4 3 - 7
HEPTANE 142-82-5 1 - 7
METHYLCYCLOPENTANE 96-37-7 1 - 7
2-METHYLPENTANE 107-83-5 1 - 5
3-METHYLPENTANE 96-14-0 1 - 5
XYLENE 1330-20-7 1 - 5
CYCLOHEXANE 110-82-7 0.1 - 2
ETHYLBENZENE 100-41-4 0.1 - 1.0
ZINC OXIDE 1314-13-2 0.1 - 1.0
STYRENATED PHENOL 61788-44-1 0.1 - 1.0
ROSIN 8050-09-7 0.1 - 1.0
NEOHEXANE 75-83-2 < 1.0
BENZENE 71-43-2 < 0.05
===
Seems like both products contain some or most of these chemicals. It may be that the percentages are different between the two brands.....also some of the other adhesive components. The ones 3M calls "trade secret"
Applying either of these to fresh acrylic lacquer is a recipe for problems. Original GM lacquer was factory baked or reflowed. This helped to cure it and make it more resistant to solvents. Aged acrylic lacquer will probably take more kindly to use of these adhesives.
Larry
Last edited by Powershift; 04-15-2012 at 07:54 PM.
04-15-2012, 07:59 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
My car's paint is base coat/clear coat. More specifically the base coat is Dupont's waterborne Cromax Pro and the clear coat was solvent based. The area that experienced paint lift was a metal portion of the door frame that had been primed in solvent based zinc chromate primer (below the BC/CC).
As for testing the Dynatex adhesive in an inconspicuous location, that's exactly what i did, and had no problem. The problem only arose when I applied the second application of adhesive to bond the weatherstripping to the door.
@rich5962: Thanks! Those chemical composition breakdowns are quite interesting and shows just how different these two products are chemical wise and hopefully performance wise.
As for testing the Dynatex adhesive in an inconspicuous location, that's exactly what i did, and had no problem. The problem only arose when I applied the second application of adhesive to bond the weatherstripping to the door.
@rich5962: Thanks! Those chemical composition breakdowns are quite interesting and shows just how different these two products are chemical wise and hopefully performance wise.
04-15-2012, 08:10 PM
#23
Race Director
The 3M MSDS is much more complete, and what you would expect a major chemical company and industry leader to report.
Both contain the same or similar SOLVENTS. 3M may of found a way to buffer or modify some of the agressive solvent properties through other additves.
Larry
04-15-2012, 08:14 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Good point. Not being a chemist, even I was wondering where the "body" of the Dynatex product was coming from when comparing the two compositions.
The Dynatex disclosure reads like a Goldman Sachs prospectus for some mortgage backed securities derivative. 80% secret ingredients. Buyer beware!
04-16-2012, 08:27 AM
#25
Le Mans Master
Thanks guys.
I am going to the auto supply tomorrow to pick up some 3M in black. Any specific product number that you could cite for the actual product you used, so I get the right one.
Based on my research 3M have quite the variety of weatherstrip adhesives with product numbers:
80001
80119 (black)
08001 (yellow)
08011 (black)
08008 (black)
What's the product number of the 3M adhesive you had success with?
Thanks
I am going to the auto supply tomorrow to pick up some 3M in black. Any specific product number that you could cite for the actual product you used, so I get the right one.
Based on my research 3M have quite the variety of weatherstrip adhesives with product numbers:
80001
80119 (black)
08001 (yellow)
08011 (black)
08008 (black)
What's the product number of the 3M adhesive you had success with?
Thanks
04-16-2012, 09:43 AM
#26
Le Mans Master
My car's paint is base coat/clear coat. More specifically the base coat is Dupont's waterborne Cromax Pro and the clear coat was solvent based. The area that experienced paint lift was a metal portion of the door frame that had been primed in solvent based zinc chromate primer (below the BC/CC).
As for testing the Dynatex adhesive in an inconspicuous location, that's exactly what i did, and had no problem. The problem only arose when I applied the second application of adhesive to bond the weatherstripping to the door.
@rich5962: Thanks! Those chemical composition breakdowns are quite interesting and shows just how different these two products are chemical wise and hopefully performance wise.
As for testing the Dynatex adhesive in an inconspicuous location, that's exactly what i did, and had no problem. The problem only arose when I applied the second application of adhesive to bond the weatherstripping to the door.
@rich5962: Thanks! Those chemical composition breakdowns are quite interesting and shows just how different these two products are chemical wise and hopefully performance wise.
04-16-2012, 10:01 AM
#27
Team Owner
well if nothing else this thread has been informative.
04-16-2012, 06:49 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Today on the way to pick up my son at university in London Ontario, I picked up the following 3m adhesive (that just happens to be made in London):
I will wait 3 to 4 weeks before I apply this adhesive to ensure the paint had cured, even though the product has no such warnings (or blanket disclaimers like Dynatex). I have the door sitting in my furnace room, which is the warmest room in our house.
@wombvette: As for the paint appearing "flat", that's just the picture, The paint is actually quite glossy after two coats of clear coat.
I will wait 3 to 4 weeks before I apply this adhesive to ensure the paint had cured, even though the product has no such warnings (or blanket disclaimers like Dynatex). I have the door sitting in my furnace room, which is the warmest room in our house.
@wombvette: As for the paint appearing "flat", that's just the picture, The paint is actually quite glossy after two coats of clear coat.
04-16-2012, 07:22 PM
#29
Race Director
I have sold and used 3-M 8001.....and I believe its used or was as a OE sealer and adhesive...3-M has in recent time gone to the 5 digit number replacing the 4 digit that I was use to....interesting information that they now eat paint!
