eyedocs96

Thanks , double checked and throw out bearing is correct.
Thanks Brian

Mike67nv

I agree, you should not have to force the transmission to seat it. If it doesn't seat, something is misaligned or not fitting properly. Many old Muncie’s have had ears broken off forcing them to seat.

Did you try fitting the clutch disk on the transmission input shaft when you had it apart? If it fit OK, I suspect your alignment tool may have too much play. If you can get an old input shaft, nothing works better.

69ttop502

Don't know if you did anything to the tranny but I once had this problem and it was one of the bolts on the front bearing retainer was not indexed correctly and it was hitting the bellhousing bore. If you are an inch out, I don't think you are even into the bushing.

Bill

GUSTO14

Brian, if you do decide to use this technique to get it in, be very careful. As you may already have surmised others that have used this technique have in fact broken the ears off of more than a few transmissions. I would run the bolts in such that each is in equally and the transmission is being held as square to the bell housing as possible. (I would use nothing more than a regular length 3/8" ratchet to do this, to ensure you don't pull it in too hard and minimize the risk of breaking one of the ears off.)

Once the bolts are equally snug (but not real tight!), grab the tail shaft and gently move it about to see if you can slip the input shaft into the pilot bearing by using the bolts as leverage. After you do this a bit, check the tension on the bolts. You will likely find that they are now loose. If this is the case, tighten them again equally to take out the slop and once again gently move the tail shaft about. If everything is moving in you should be able to ease the transmission in all the way or find that using the 3/8 ratchet you can now comfortably pull it in all the way.

Once you're convince that it is in fact well into the pilot shaft you should be able to safely switch to a 1/2" ratchet to finish the job.

I have personally used the old trick about depressing the clutch to get one to slip in in the past when I found one that just didn't want to slide in.

Good luck and do let us know how you finally get it in there. You've certainly tried about everything else I would have suggested.

GUSTO

DansYellow66

I would look for something to apply to the end of the thowout fork to gvie some leverage so that the clutch can be disengaged slightly while you try to wiggle it home (riding on the alignment dowels). Maybe a short piece of pipe or large set of vice grips. If you're working alone you can snug up the bolts with a little tension - disengage the clutch - and then snug the bolts a little again. If they loosened up then you're on your way - just keep doing cycles of this. Just snug all the bolts up evenly and don't put very much force on them - as others have pointed out, the Muncie ears just can't take much tension. And use those dowels - you don't want to leave the transmission hanging on the clutch plate.

1snake

Install the Z bar and use a pipe on the lever that the pedal push rod attaches to. Have someone push forward to dis-engage the clutch and it should slide together easily. If not, something is wrong. DO NOT pull the trans. into place with the bolts and also, don't ever let the weight of the trans. dangle loose while engaged with the disc. If you do, you're going to have a chatter problem from a bent hub. The whole assembly should go together easily when all things are right.
The last thing you want to do is force it, screw it up and not discover it until the body is back on. You think it's a b!tch now, try replacing it with the body on.

Jim

eyedocs96

Thanks for everyones help and advice. I quit for the night. I am still stumped. I still suspect that the end of the shaft isn't into the bushing. I have about a pinky width between the tranny and bell housing. I didn't do anything to the tranny. I haven't tried to pull it in with the bolts. I'm too afraid to break something. Experience has taught me to be patient and when it is correct it should slide together. I don't have an old shaft to try that for an alignment tool. I have used the two that I have. I'll keep at it and keep everyone updated.
Thanks Brian

Mr D.

I know this sounds strange but given everything you have tried, pull thr clutch out and reinstall bell housing and see if trans slides in.

Dan Hampton

Use studs in the bellhousing instead of using the bolts and see if you still have an alignment problem. You can easily remove the studs and replace them with the bolts if you get it lined up.

eyedocs96

I think I will try removing the clutch and hook up the bell housing and see if that works. I'll also compare the old and new clutch again.
Thanks Brian

Powershift

Is it possible that the bellhousing has some mis-alignment and may need off-set dowels?? Is the bellhousing new, or is the transmission new?? Have the engine and bellhousing and transmission been run together before??

I would remove the clutch and pressure plate and TO bearing, replace the bellhousing, and then see if the transmission will slide all the way in hanging on the alignment dowels/studs. If it slides in okay, then the problem is with the components that were removed. If it doesn't slide in, then you have a bellhousing alignment issue.

You can also use a dial indicator to sweep the bellhousing and check out alignment if you have this tool. If not, the above test with only the transmission and bellhousing should probably tell if the alignment is okay.

I was under the impression that the enigine and bellhousing and transmission had been run together previously and were fine, but you just needed to replace the clutch/pressure plate/TO bearing//pilot bushing. If this is a new installation that hasn't been run together before, than you will need to make additional checks.

Larry

eyedocs96

That's my next plan. The engine, tranny and bell housing have been run together and were fine. Will remove clutch again and hook tranny up to bell housing and check alignment.
Thanks Brian

larrywalk

As others have noted, the plastic alignment tool is a bit too small to get a good alignment of the clutch disk to the center of the pilot bearing. If you don't have an old input gear to use, re-align with the plastic tool, but before you snug the first pressure plate bolt, jiggle or oscillate the tool in a circular motion to feel how much the clutch disk can be moved, and then try to get it in the center of the motion when you start to tighten the bolts.

It is important to consider that the weight of the disk will pull the disk downward against the tool and result is a downward misalignment, so you need to hold it up a bit when gradually tightening the bolts until the PP can hold the weight of the disk.

When you get it properly aligned, the trans can be easily inserted all the way in by hand. Good luck!

Roger K. Fain

Brian,
Some Muncies have an heavy duty front bearing cover that the throwout bearing slides on, which is almost 3/8" thick. Make sure that the four bolts that are securing the cover to the case have the "flats" aligned with the curvature of the cover. No points of the bolt should be protruding, which would preclude the mating of the trans, to the bellhousing. Good luck, Roger

eyedocs96

Update. I finally got the transmission in today. I took off the bell housing and tried to put the transmission in and it wouldn't go in. I noticed the alignment tool was a little snug. I loosened the pressure plate and lifted up a little on the alignment tool and wiggled it around until the tool was very loose. I tightened the pressure plate and rechecked the alignment tool. It was very loose so I finished torquing the bolts and put put on the bell housing. The transmission went in easily. My suggestions to anyone doing this is to lift up on the alignment tool a little and tighten the pressure plate and recheck so the tool goes in and out without any drag. Then assemble.
Thanks for everyones help and suggestions. You all helped me get it in today.
Brian

Powershift

Glad you finally achieved success. This just further reinforces the need to use an old transmission shaft to do the initial setup/alignment....especially if working by yourself.

If a person has a helper available, then they can use the plastic alignment tool and then have the helper depress the clutch pedal (or z-bar if pedal not attached) to free up the clutch disc during installation so everything fits.

Thanks for the update.

Larry