WWII Mosquito flys again.......!
12-29-2012, 11:00 AM
#41
Team Owner
The 262s had lots of problems - engines being a significant one.
I think the V-2 rockets were more of a threat. The precursor to the modern ICBM missile.
If there had been enough of them introduced earlier in the war...a lot of us would be speaking German now.
I think the V-2 rockets were more of a threat. The precursor to the modern ICBM missile.
If there had been enough of them introduced earlier in the war...a lot of us would be speaking German now.
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; 12-29-2012 at 11:03 AM.
12-29-2012, 11:05 AM
#42
I wonder how the air war would have been if the Luftwaffe had got their will and used the ME262 as a fighter plane and not as a fast speed bomber
I suppose the ME262 could have prolonged the war?
Remember that the ME262 was flying well in 1942 and still could have been produced in much more numbers
I suppose the ME262 could have prolonged the war?
Remember that the ME262 was flying well in 1942 and still could have been produced in much more numbers
You have to also keep in mind that the US had a squadron of P80s in Europe, but never used them because there was no need. The US had plans to produce thousands of P80s to counter the ME262 if it came to that – and the P80 was a FAR superior plane than the Me262.
12-29-2012, 11:48 AM
#43
Le Mans Master
Click on the link below and read more about the ME 262
http://vho.org/tr/2003/1/Chelain69-71.html
http://vho.org/tr/2003/1/Chelain69-71.html
I really wonder how these myths get started. The ME262 would have had even less effect as a fighter since it had such poor maneuverability. But the big issue, which the Germans NEVER fixed, was the durability and reliability of their engines. It was the engines which delayed the ME262 from Combat until 1944 – not the airframe or what Hitler wanted to do with it. Even when production started, the engine was entirely unreliable – general only lasting a few hours of flight time. This is largely due to the lack of nickel steel at the design level.
You have to also keep in mind that the US had a squadron of P80s in Europe, but never used them because there was no need. The US had plans to produce thousands of P80s to counter the ME262 if it came to that – and the P80 was a FAR superior plane than the Me262.
You have to also keep in mind that the US had a squadron of P80s in Europe, but never used them because there was no need. The US had plans to produce thousands of P80s to counter the ME262 if it came to that – and the P80 was a FAR superior plane than the Me262.
12-29-2012, 12:11 PM
#44
Safety Car
Well....
Some of that doesn't make sense. "We had them, but didn't use them, cause we didn't need to"
Really?
Wiki aint the best source for info... but its a source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockhee..._Shooting_Star
and
When you say, "A squadron of P-80s in Europe"... That is VERY misleading. But I guess 4 prototypes could be construed as a squadron
I'll will agree that the P-80 would become a better plane
than the ME262, but it should have. It was developed in RESPONSE to the 262, and had the benefit of England's jet development and their engines. But thats kind of like saying the MiG 17 was a better plane than the P-80.
From Stanford University site
and
Remember, there were teams of Brits, Russians, and Americans whose sole job in 44/45 was to Capture German weapons and platforms to aid in development.
Fact is, despite its faults, the Me262 was the best Jet of WW2.
Lets look at the competition though... just for kicks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...f_World_War_II
The only other Allied planes that were COMBAT operational during WW2 was the British Gloucester Metor (and it downed a V1) and the... well, you know what, that is it.
On the German side, DESPITE its faults and shortcoming for what ever reason had
at least 3 Jets Operational
Messerschmitt Me 262 - first operational jet-powered fighter.
Heinkel He 162 - Second jet engined fighter to serve with the Luftwaffe.
Arado Ar 234 - first jet-powered bomber and reconnaissance aircraft.
You have to be a serious homer not to appreciate the technology and design invovled with the German Jet Development. And too, not one single bomb fell on the Kelley Johnson's skunk works while P-80s were being developed.
As stated above, MOST of the time, when a 262 was shot down, it occured during take off or landing otherwise...
Some of that doesn't make sense. "We had them, but didn't use them, cause we didn't need to"
Really?
Wiki aint the best source for info... but its a source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockhee..._Shooting_Star
Designed and built by Lockheed in 1943 and delivered in just 143 days from the start of the design process, production models were flying but not ready for service by the end of World War II. Designed with straight wings, the type saw extensive combat in Korea with the United States Air Force (USAF) as the F-80.
The impetus for development of the P-80 was the discovery by Allied intelligence of the Me 262 in spring 1943, which had only made test flights of production prototypes at that time. After receiving documents and blueprints comprising years of British jet aircraft research, the commanding General of the Army Air Forces, Henry H. Arnold, believed an airframe could be developed to accept the British-made jet engine, and the Materiel Command's Wright Field research and development division tasked Lockheed to design the aircraft. With the Germans and British clearly far ahead in development, Lockheed was pressed to develop a comparable jet in as short a time as possible.
The Shooting Star began to enter service in late 1944 with 12 pre-production YP-80As one of which was destroyed in the accident in which Burcham was killed. A 13th YP-80A was modified to the sole F-14 photo reconnaissance model and lost in a December crash. Four were sent to Europe for operational testing (two to England and two to the 1st Fighter Group at Lesina Airfield, Italy) but when test pilot Major Frederic Borsodi was killed in a crash caused by an engine fire on 28 January 1945, demonstrating YP-80A 44-83026 at RAF Burtonwood, the YP-80A was temporarily grounded.[6] Some early production series P-80s had been sent to Europe (two stationed in England and two in Italy) for demonstration and familiarization flights, but because of the delay, the Shooting Star saw no combat in World War II.[7]
than the ME262, but it should have. It was developed in RESPONSE to the 262, and had the benefit of England's jet development and their engines. But thats kind of like saying the MiG 17 was a better plane than the P-80.
From Stanford University site
The British shared Whittle's technology with the U.S., allowing General Electric (GE) to build jet engines for America's first jet fighter, the Bell XP-59.
The 1945 surrender of Germany revealed substantial wartime discoveries and inventions. General Electric and Pratt & Whitney, another American engine-builder, added German lessons to those of Whittle and other British designers.
Fact is, despite its faults, the Me262 was the best Jet of WW2.
Lets look at the competition though... just for kicks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...f_World_War_II
The only other Allied planes that were COMBAT operational during WW2 was the British Gloucester Metor (and it downed a V1) and the... well, you know what, that is it.
On the German side, DESPITE its faults and shortcoming for what ever reason had
at least 3 Jets Operational
Messerschmitt Me 262 - first operational jet-powered fighter.
Heinkel He 162 - Second jet engined fighter to serve with the Luftwaffe.
Arado Ar 234 - first jet-powered bomber and reconnaissance aircraft.
You have to be a serious homer not to appreciate the technology and design invovled with the German Jet Development. And too, not one single bomb fell on the Kelley Johnson's skunk works while P-80s were being developed.
As stated above, MOST of the time, when a 262 was shot down, it occured during take off or landing otherwise...
Luftwaffe pilots eventually learned how to handle the Me 262's higher speed, and the Me 262 soon proved a formidable air superiority fighter, with pilots such as Franz Schall managing to shoot down 12 enemy fighters in the Me 262, 10 of them American P-51 Mustangs. Other notable Me 262 aces included Georg-Peter Eder, also with 12 enemy fighters to his credit (including 9 P-51s), Walther Dahl with 11 (including three La-7s and six P-51s) and Heinz-Helmut Baudach with 6 (including 1 Spitfire and 2 P-51s) amongst many others.
06-24-2013, 10:30 PM
#46
Melting Slicks
(I know this is an old thread that is being revived, but this seemed pertinent)
This is the guy who owns the Mosquito...those in the area should move quickly if you want to see this collection of aircraft.
http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/va-b...ane-collection
This is the guy who owns the Mosquito...those in the area should move quickly if you want to see this collection of aircraft.
The owner of a popular aviation museum that features one of the world’s largest collections of World War I and II-era planes is selling off his aircraft and said he may close the museum.
Gerald Yagen, owner of the Military Aviation Museum near Pungo, said on Monday he no longer has the money to keep the collection.
“I’m subsidizing it heavily every year and my business no longer allows me to do that financially, and therefore I don’t have a solution for it,” he said.
Yagen said nine groups visited the museum last week to look over his collection. So far, he said he’s sold two planes, a Boeing B-17, a heavy American bomber, and a Focke-Wulf 190, a single seat German plane. Both were used during World War II.
Yagen said he doesn’t know how many planes he owns. He said he has planes in Virginia Beach nobody has ever seen and planes around the world that will now never come to Virginia Beach.
Yagen said the four vocational trade schools he owns, including the Aviation Institute of Maintenance in Chesapeake, have been acquired.
Gerald Yagen, owner of the Military Aviation Museum near Pungo, said on Monday he no longer has the money to keep the collection.
“I’m subsidizing it heavily every year and my business no longer allows me to do that financially, and therefore I don’t have a solution for it,” he said.
Yagen said nine groups visited the museum last week to look over his collection. So far, he said he’s sold two planes, a Boeing B-17, a heavy American bomber, and a Focke-Wulf 190, a single seat German plane. Both were used during World War II.
Yagen said he doesn’t know how many planes he owns. He said he has planes in Virginia Beach nobody has ever seen and planes around the world that will now never come to Virginia Beach.
Yagen said the four vocational trade schools he owns, including the Aviation Institute of Maintenance in Chesapeake, have been acquired.
06-25-2013, 07:22 AM
#47
Team Owner
Damn shame. I lived in Pungo for a while (back when it was nothing but strawberry and soybean fields). Va Beach should try to salvage this; no more expensive than the tons of taxpayer dollars they spend pumping sand onto the ocean front to keep the motel owners happy each year. There used to be some weird stuff in the backroads of rural Tidewater back then. Fentress Field was a carrier landing training site with a runway marked off like an aircraft carrier deck. We used to sneak out there and run our cars down the 'deck' in the 60s to see if we could reach takeoff speed. Got chased off by the military on a few dark nights. Lots of fun...prob a felony now.
06-25-2013, 08:26 AM
#49
Le Mans Master
Here are some photos I took several weeks ago of the 262 and the first public flight of the Mosquito at the War Bird Museum at Virgnia Beach...
Needed to post this:
Hope you enjoyed these photos....
Needed to post this:
Hope you enjoyed these photos....
06-25-2013, 12:30 PM
#51
Race Director
Clark Gable and a camera man flew in five actual combat missions over Europe to document the role of gunners in B17s. He made the film "Combat America" which was shown in American movie theaters back then and can be found on YouTube. At one point Gable had the heel of a boot blown off by a 20mm shell from a German fighter, so he was definitely on combat missions.
06-26-2013, 02:02 PM
#52
Le Mans Master
That ME 262 is looking great 
I suppose that the ME262 is one of the replica planes where they built 2 single seaters and a 2 seater?
http://www.stormbirds.com/project/index.html
I suppose that the ME262 is one of the replica planes where they built 2 single seaters and a 2 seater?
http://www.stormbirds.com/project/index.html