Frankie the Fink

Well - I decided to sell my dual quad clones off the car at Lakeland and put my Bob Kunz restored 'real deal' 270hp carbs back on the car. These things had been stored away for 2-1/2 years and I guess that was a bad idea. They fired right up but hemorrhaged fuel out both carbs' primary squirters to the point it was running out the throttle shafts. Damn.

I guess the needle valves have crud on them or are deteriorated; I've ordered a Daytona Parts rebuild kit and will deal with that later. The clones are back on the car for now.

Lifting those 18lb carbs across that wide-@ss fender time and again has me on the hot pad tonight. Some days it just doesn't pay to mess with these cars

Bluestripe67

Smart of you too stand down on the leakers. Dennis

SDVette

Agreed. Any time you can dodge the Car-B-Que and fight another day is a victory!
If these things were easy maintain, everyone would have them :-)

Plasticman

Frank,

The Daytona Carb kits (at least for my AFBs) come with a new (at least new to me) "flat" needle and seat. The needle is not conical going to a point. It is flat faced (with an elastomer sealing surface), and seats against a raised flat seating hole edge.

I tried them a month ago, and they work well (so far).

John

Frankie the Fink

I know, that's actually the feature I like about them. Nice design.

Solid Axle Guy

What's the verdict on clones Frankie? Pros & Cons? BTW I love these muscle relaxers for my back: Carisoprodol (soma compound) 350MG tablets.

Frankie the Fink

Well done clones are every bit as nice running as the real thing. The dual quads on my '61 have served me faultlessly for 2-1/2 years and start right up, idle well and pull hard to the car's redline. Not sure how much more you can ask for. My rear clone is a Chrysler carb that's slightly bigger than the regular Corvette carb so it has a tad more punch. This particular setup has the same base, counterweights and flapper arms as the real 270hp versions and look very close to the real thing under an air cleaner.

I've been quite pleased with them. Never have been able to identify where the front carb on the pair was originally used.

babbah

"If it ain't broke........"

tbarb

Frank,

A few weeks ago I installed the 3810 Holley back on my 67 corvette and had the same problem. The carburetor was off the engine because I wanted to lean the idle circuit but I never touched the floats and needle/seats.

The fuel bowls sat exposed to the air for a few weeks and after installed and the engine started fuel dripped from the booster nozzles both primary and secondary. I removed the carburetor and sat it on the workbench, but could not understand why this problem.

After two days of thinking about it and doing some research over the internet I decided to reinstall the carburetor without touching anything and it ran fine without any float related issued.

Bottom line (FWIW) I think these rubber viton needle and seats dry and shrink just a bit when not exposed to liquid and swell back up in short order with fuel. Don't be discouraged, you may want to try them again, I just turned mine over and blew into the fuel inlet which convinced me to try again.

Frankie the Fink

Yeah - I called my guy Tim at Daytona Parts and he recommended this exact same thing. I'll try that after I get some time this weekend.

I'm a little gun shy as I had a carb fire once in the garage that was way too much excitement for an old fella.

Bill Pilon

Sent PM

AZDoug

The carb on my Harley does the same thing if not regularly used.

I just let it sit for a few hours, go out again, and fire it up and the leak has stopped.

I was going to tell you to just shake the carbs a bit after they sit with gas in them over night and reinstall, but others beat me to it..

Doug

Frankie the Fink

Let this be a lesson to those who get carbs restored and then set them on the shelf. My Bob Kunz restored originals sat up for 2 years and 9 months. Big mistake...those POS tan air cleaner gaskets cause "white rust" on the air horn, the zinc plating on the body turns a greenish-black, and, the needle valves deteriorate and leak. Soooo...I had to break them open and do a rebuild of the rebuild. Thought I'd share a few tips you don't see in the manuals.

First, cleanliness is next to Godliness! You'll note my $7.00 work stand I made out of a few bolts, nylon spacers and a Lowe's kitchen drawer front... This holds the carbs in the air nicely and keeps the throttle plates debris-free.

Next - those air horns have 18 screws of 3 different sizes - make yourself some cardboard templates to sort them out or face stripping body threads (upper left hand corner in picture).

Do not mix up the floats! Secondaries and primaries are different. I don't even like to mix up the metering rods for that matter. I keep the left and right the same going in as they came out.

There are two holes in the accelerator pump actuator arm - take a picture so you know which one to use - make sure the little "U" rod that connects the pump to arm is inserted from the inboard side.

When R&Ring metering rods...release the hair spring CAREFULLY. Turn the hooked end of the rod sideways behind the T-shaped "hanger" while pushing down about 1/2 way on the hanger and then carefully withdraw the metering rod. Remove the driver's side rod FIRST then the passenger side rod. Reassemble by doing the passenger side first - trust me it makes getting the hairspring installed much easier due to the configuration of the spring's hooks. Also note the position of the horiontal "tab" at the top of the "T" hanger (seen in the third picture just below the blue tape)...that faces the carb's rear; put the hanger in backwards and you'll have a fit getting things working.

Some carbs will have extremely small flat washers around the metering rods down where they enter the air horn. Do NOT lose those !! They are a very special size and the dickens to replace....

Put tape on the spring in the metering rod hanger; if you lose that spring you may as well stop right there and commit seppuku.

Its a good idea to install the "left turn, anti-stall fix" (4th picture) if you are this far into it. I can provide specs on what's needed - available at Ace Hardware - a no brainer upgrade. I put this fix in both carbs on a dual quad setup...

I really like the Daytona Parts needle valves over the traditional design...they make float drop less critical and provide a more even fuel flow and cutoff...that's their silver-looking, flat version shown beside the traditonal 'tapered tip' version. You also don't have to deal with those hairpin needle valve "hangers". The DP upgraded needle valve seats require 3 of the supplied round gaskets under them to get the float height adjusted properly.

ALL '58-'61 dual quads work well with the primary float height at 1/8" and secondary at 1/4" with the air horn gasket REMOVED. Drill bits work really well for measuring the height! Push them along between the float and naked air horn and adjust the floats until the drill bits make a "*****" sound when run under the floats but the floats don't actually move. That's perfection.

Frankie the Fink

The carbs are on the car now and run like fiends flat out...
My idle sucks though and I've isolated it to my Bubba RPO-242 road draft-to-PCV conversion.
Vacuum leak somewhere - I'll work on that next.

Several have asked but my clones are promised to a forum member if he meets my price; if not I'll go by the order in which I've received the PMs to be fair...

AZDoug

A thin film of wheel bearing grease applied to both sides of the gasket stops that in its tracks.

Your welcome.

Doug

tbarb

Is the idle to high where you can't close the throttle blades any more?

FWIW, the PCV is a calibrated vacuum leak and those carbs may not be calibrated for a PCV valve. You may want to try a PCV for a six or even a four cylinder engine because the flow may be less. Does the engine use a vacuum advance?

Pilot Dan

Frank, was just curious if you talked to Bob Kunz about the problem and what his response was. Normally when he sends out a carb, I would think he would wrap them in plastic to prevent this from happening. As you know I have rebuilt a bunch of these (some over 5 years ago) and I carefully wrap them in plastic to make sure they are air tight, that is VERY important especially in a damp environment like FL. I have never had a problem with any doing it that way. Glad you got them back together, can't believe you had to go to all that trouble though. Pilot Dan

Frankie the Fink

Bob Kunz had wrapped them in something akin to butcher paper and really padded the box well....I'm sure if I had told him I was going to store the carbs for nearly 3 years he would have wrapped them differently -- thats what Daytona Parts did for my '63 WCFB (shrink wrapped it in plastic) and exactly one year later it went on the car just fine and played nice.

I had intended to stick the dual quads back on the car as soon as I received them but the clones just ran so damn fine I got lazy and left well enough alone.

tbarb: I dumped the PCV for now and just have the hose below the car like a Bubba road draft tube - I'll decide what to do later. FYI though. RPO-242 in '61 had a PCV for California cars. The car idles down now just fine....yes the car has had a vacuum advance since 2007 !

I got the carbs kinda dialed in now and they pull 17" of vacuum at a 800RPM idle. I'll drive 'em a few hundred miles and recheck everything and it should be fine hopefully.

Part of my issue is that the lil ole 250hp 327 in the '63 is such a pussycat that I have to get re-introduced to the lumpy idle of the 270hp 283 with the Duntov cam and solid lifters...I sorta lost my 'ear' temporarily for telling when the car is running right...