Frame bent - Shop says to leave it - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion


C1 & C2 Corvettes
General C1 Corvette & C2 Corvette Discussion, Technical Info, Performance Upgrades, Project Builds, Restorations

Frame bent - Shop says to leave it

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-24-2015, 01:31 PM   #1
jusplainwacky
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: Concord CA
Posts: 2,723
Thanked 38 Times in 30 Posts
Default Frame bent - Shop says to leave it

I'd like some input from people that have experience with C1 frames.

Mine is bent inward near the welded on clutch bracket assembly...about 3/8-1/2". This causes a tight fit of the clutch shaft on the ball joints to the point that the fiber washers don't fit and the clutch rod doesn't line up to the clutch bracket assembly. The shaft moves fine without the fiber washers...put them in and it binds up.

The painter has a frame machine and he said that although he could "pull" it out, he is afraid of screwing it more than what it is and it being noticeable....including putting a kink in the frame. He believes a better solution is to leave it and cut the clutch bracket and move it out.
When looking at the frame from the top and bottom, you cannot visually see that the frame is bent.
I don't know what the experience is of this paint shop when it comes to frames for these cars so I'm asking for some input.
Below is a picture of where the frame is bent. Sorry for the small size...just click on it and it will expand.

Name:  Bent frame area.jpg
Views: 1894
Size:  49.2 KB
jusplainwacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 02:14 PM   #2
appelen
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Feb 2009
Posts: 147
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Default

In my opinion you should do a cross measurement front to rear,and since the shop has a frame rack also check height of frame rails especially in front if that has not been done
appelen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 02:41 PM   #3
Nowhere Man
CF Senior Member
C2 of Month Finalist 2015
 
Nowhere Man's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2003
Location: Sitting in his Nowhere land Hanover Pa
Posts: 29,652
Thanked 835 Times in 792 Posts
Default

I would get a second opinion
Nowhere Man is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 02:57 PM   #4
jusplainwacky
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: Concord CA
Posts: 2,723
Thanked 38 Times in 30 Posts
Default

Appen....the area has been identified. The question is not how to find the dent, but if pulling this area out is fairly simple for a frame shop or should I leave it.
jusplainwacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 03:12 PM   #5
appelen
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Feb 2009
Posts: 147
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jusplainwacky View Post
Appen....the area has been identified. The question is not how to find the dent, but if pulling this area out is fairly simple for a frame shop or should I leave it.
If the frame measurements comes in to specs and you can live with it, leave it, but I also agree with Nowhereman a second opinion is always a good idea
appelen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 03:20 PM   #6
MikeM
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Mar 2003
Location: Greenville, Indiana
Posts: 20,060
Thanked 458 Times in 397 Posts
Default

If there are no other problems evident like dog tracking or tilted body, misaligned body mounts, shifter coming through the floor in the right place, etc., I'd follow the body guy's advice.

Or, you might just smack the clutch bracket with a hammer and make everything fit.
MikeM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 06:14 PM   #7
GCD1962
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Feb 2004
Location: CT
Posts: 12,646
Thanks: 0
Thanked 42 Times in 38 Posts
Default

Grind the back part of the bracket that attaches to the bellhousing. That will give a little more clearance. It's a fairly thick bracket, so I don't see a problem taking an 1/8" or so off the back to move it inward slightly
GCD1962 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 06:27 PM   #8
Solid Axle Guy
CF Senior Member
 
Solid Axle Guy's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2009
Location: Godfrey Illinois
Posts: 510
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
Default

I would only resort to using a hammer as a matter of VERY last resort.
Solid Axle Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 06:30 PM   #9
DansYellow66
CF Senior Member
 
DansYellow66's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2003
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 9,424
Thanked 409 Times in 372 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
Or, you might just smack the clutch bracket with a hammer and make everything fit.
I love it - probably straight from the GM assembly line. "Hey Joe - where's that 5-lb hammer?"
DansYellow66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 06:57 PM   #10
MikeM
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Mar 2003
Location: Greenville, Indiana
Posts: 20,060
Thanked 458 Times in 397 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DansYellow66 View Post
I love it - probably straight from the GM assembly line. "Hey Joe - where's that 5-lb hammer?"
You'd have to love it if you were there. In the 60's, a necessary assembly tool on the frame line was a hammer and a drift pin to get these things to go together. If your repairman lost his hammer/drift pin you either couldn't build or just shut the line off and you know you didn't do that. Guess what? The hammer and drift pin weren't mentioned ANYHERE in the assembly tools required.
MikeM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 07:04 PM   #11
Frankie the Fink
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Frankie the Fink's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2007
Location: Orlando Metro Area Florida
Posts: 37,730
Thanked 1,716 Times in 1,433 Posts
Default

I think the paint shop IS the second opinion since I'm pretty sure that rich5962 pointed up your bent frame issue several weeks back...

If you can jigger the clutch ball stud bracket to get it functioning acceptably then that's what I would do....nobody will ever know it was done but you unless they use lasers....

There are prob dozens of C1s roaming the streets with similar issues and nobody is the wiser...
Frankie the Fink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 07:34 PM   #12
jusplainwacky
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: Concord CA
Posts: 2,723
Thanked 38 Times in 30 Posts
Default

Quote:
I think the paint shop IS the second opinion since I'm pretty sure that rich5962 pointed up your bent frame issue several weeks back...
I knew the frame was bent and so did Rich, and the decision was to take it to a frame shop to have them physically take a look at it. I was really hoping for someone that has a frame shop to give me their 2-cents on if it was possible to pull this section outward or is there a good chance of crippling the frame even more.

I'm incline to just cut the bracket off and move it, which isn't a big deal, but again, if a pro said, it shouldn't be any big deal to pull out, then I would get a second opinion.
jusplainwacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 04:04 AM   #13
tgtexas02
CF Senior Member
 
tgtexas02's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2004
Location: Galveston & Belton Texas
Posts: 356
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Totally unqualified to offer expert advice but since the clutch cross shaft works without a felt washer then I wouldn't think pulling on the frame just a tiny bit would hurt anything. To me, you wouldn't have to cut and weld things. Sounds to me that if it moved 1/8" the clutch problem is solved? However, I would think the diagonal measurements would be what would concern me the most. Nothing worse than watching a bad tracking vehicle. Especially an old corvette!

You can fix anything correctly if you are willing to spend enough money. Interested to hear what you do and if you satisfactorily solve issue. Good.
tgtexas02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 10:36 AM   #14
Plasticman
CF Senior Member
 
Plasticman's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2000
Location: Beverly Hills (Pine Ridge) Florida
Posts: 9,219
Thanked 99 Times in 93 Posts
Default

You can do the "2nd opinion" to death.
If the 2nd opinion conflicts with the 1st, then you need a tie breaker........

Just cut and weld the bracket back into the correct position.

Plasticman
Plasticman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 11:37 AM   #15
jusplainwacky
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: Concord CA
Posts: 2,723
Thanked 38 Times in 30 Posts
Default

I would think that you could pull the frame out slowly and see if it starts to kink....but then again, I'm not a frame expert and because of this, I'm incline to just cut the bracket and weld on an extension.
It tracked fine and could be aligned....it's just that the clutch rod and cross shaft are off.
jusplainwacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 01:14 PM   #16
AZDoug
CF Senior Member
C1 of the Month Finalist 2017
 
AZDoug's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: Camp Verde AZ
Posts: 9,187
Thanked 189 Times in 144 Posts
Default

I can't believe nobody though of the easiest way out of this:

Take the Z bar to a welding shop, have them cut the necessary amount out of the middle of the bar,a nd weld it back together in its shortened position. A piece of steel drilled through the middle, and the inside diameter of the bar, inserted into the middle of the bar would provide straightness and strength to the weld.

A long score mark, scored into the length of the bar bar before cutting, would allow precise realignment of the two halves.

Much easier to cut and weld outside the car, than to try to move a bracket with the body on.

A little heat applied to each tab (can't think of a better name), and slightly bend each tab out a bit to the original distance for linkage connection,and I doubt any judge would notice it was modified.

No frame work involved at all.

Doug

Last edited by AZDoug; 01-25-2015 at 01:17 PM.
AZDoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 01:15 PM   #17
GCD1962
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Feb 2004
Location: CT
Posts: 12,646
Thanks: 0
Thanked 42 Times in 38 Posts
Default

Don't mess with the bracket on the frame. You don't have to cut and weld the bracket from the bellhousing, just slot (elongate) the hole to move it slightly forward or backward
GCD1962 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 02:18 PM   #18
jusplainwacky
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: Concord CA
Posts: 2,723
Thanked 38 Times in 30 Posts
Default

Hey Doug....

Quote:
Take the Z bar to a welding shop, have them cut the necessary amount out of the middle of the bar and weld it back together
.
Quote:
A little heat applied to each tab (can't think of a better name), and slightly bend each tab out
I actually talked about this with Rich and I personally think it would require more work and a lot more heat in/around the frame then just moving the bracket and using the wire-feeder. To bend those "tabs" you refer to would require a lot of heat (gas) and I really don't want to be throwing a flame down in there if I can avoid it. I have welding equipment (gas and wire-feeder...sold my stick) and could easily move the bracket and I was planning to do this, but thought before I did, I'd check with any frame experts on here. Like I said above, if some frame guy said "it would be an easy pull" then I think I'd talk to the shop and perhaps try to bend it out...SLOWLY.

I think the consensus is to leave the frame as it is.

Last edited by jusplainwacky; 01-25-2015 at 02:21 PM.
jusplainwacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 02:45 PM   #19
AZDoug
CF Senior Member
C1 of the Month Finalist 2017
 
AZDoug's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: Camp Verde AZ
Posts: 9,187
Thanked 189 Times in 144 Posts
Default

All this is on the Z bar , NOT the frame. The cutting, welding, bending. Doing al this in a bench vise, seems a lot easier than moving brackets welded to the frame.

I think you misunderstand, though i am not sure what to call those tabs (edit: lever arms) on the Z bar the clutch fork rod, and clutch pedal rod , attach to.

You are modifying the Z bar to fit your frame, not the other way around.

Doug



Quote:
Originally Posted by jusplainwacky View Post
Hey Doug....

.


I actually talked about this with Rich and I personally think it would require more work and a lot more heat in/around the frame then just moving the bracket and using the wire-feeder. To bend those "tabs" you refer to would require a lot of heat (gas) and I really don't want to be throwing a flame down in there if I can avoid it. I have welding equipment (gas and wire-feeder...sold my stick) and could easily move the bracket and I was planning to do this, but thought before I did, I'd check with any frame experts on here. Like I said above, if some frame guy said "it would be an easy pull" then I think I'd talk to the shop and perhaps try to bend it out...SLOWLY.

I think the consensus is to leave the frame as it is.

Last edited by AZDoug; 01-25-2015 at 02:47 PM.
AZDoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 03:12 PM   #20
jusplainwacky
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: Concord CA
Posts: 2,723
Thanked 38 Times in 30 Posts
Default

Ahh...I did misunderstand you....thanks for clarifying.

There are 2 problems....one is the distance between the ball joints...it's too small and your solution would fix the problem.; The other problem is....the clutch rod is about 1/2 inch away from the bracket. Moving the bracket fixes both.
jusplainwacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Go Back   CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion >
Reload this Page
  • Frame bent - Shop says to leave it
  •  
     
    Reply

    Related Topics
    Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
    Ram Dual Disc & Flywheel Conversion KJL C4 ZR-1 Discussion 25 09-19-2017 10:07 PM
    Extremely Long with Pics: 00 FRC Corvette Clutch & Shock Replacement FormerBiker C5 Tech 33 10-09-2016 04:26 PM
    My Differential Rebuild Paper stinger12 C3 Tech/Performance 85 06-10-2016 11:05 PM
    Has Anyone Used An OFFSET Upper Control Arm Shaft ph31mwl C1 & C2 Corvettes 5 01-26-2015 10:33 PM


    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Click for Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off

    Forum Jump

    Sponsored Ads
    Vendor Directory

    All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:23 PM.


    We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
     
    • Ask a Question
      Get answers from community experts
    Question Title:
    Description:
    Your question will be posted in: