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Frame bent - Shop says to leave it

Old 01-24-2015, 01:31 PM
  #1  
jusplainwacky
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Default Frame bent - Shop says to leave it

I'd like some input from people that have experience with C1 frames.

Mine is bent inward near the welded on clutch bracket assembly...about 3/8-1/2". This causes a tight fit of the clutch shaft on the ball joints to the point that the fiber washers don't fit and the clutch rod doesn't line up to the clutch bracket assembly. The shaft moves fine without the fiber washers...put them in and it binds up.

The painter has a frame machine and he said that although he could "pull" it out, he is afraid of screwing it more than what it is and it being noticeable....including putting a kink in the frame. He believes a better solution is to leave it and cut the clutch bracket and move it out.
When looking at the frame from the top and bottom, you cannot visually see that the frame is bent.
I don't know what the experience is of this paint shop when it comes to frames for these cars so I'm asking for some input.
Below is a picture of where the frame is bent. Sorry for the small size...just click on it and it will expand.

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Old 01-24-2015, 02:14 PM
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appelen
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In my opinion you should do a cross measurement front to rear,and since the shop has a frame rack also check height of frame rails especially in front if that has not been done
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Old 01-24-2015, 02:41 PM
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I would get a second opinion
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Old 01-24-2015, 02:57 PM
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jusplainwacky
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Appen....the area has been identified. The question is not how to find the dent, but if pulling this area out is fairly simple for a frame shop or should I leave it.
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Old 01-24-2015, 03:12 PM
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appelen
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Originally Posted by jusplainwacky View Post
Appen....the area has been identified. The question is not how to find the dent, but if pulling this area out is fairly simple for a frame shop or should I leave it.
If the frame measurements comes in to specs and you can live with it, leave it, but I also agree with Nowhereman a second opinion is always a good idea
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Old 01-24-2015, 03:20 PM
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MikeM
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If there are no other problems evident like dog tracking or tilted body, misaligned body mounts, shifter coming through the floor in the right place, etc., I'd follow the body guy's advice.

Or, you might just smack the clutch bracket with a hammer and make everything fit.
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Old 01-24-2015, 06:14 PM
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GCD1962
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Grind the back part of the bracket that attaches to the bellhousing. That will give a little more clearance. It's a fairly thick bracket, so I don't see a problem taking an 1/8" or so off the back to move it inward slightly
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Old 01-24-2015, 06:27 PM
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I would only resort to using a hammer as a matter of VERY last resort.
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Old 01-24-2015, 06:30 PM
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DansYellow66
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Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
Or, you might just smack the clutch bracket with a hammer and make everything fit.
I love it - probably straight from the GM assembly line. "Hey Joe - where's that 5-lb hammer?"
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Old 01-24-2015, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DansYellow66 View Post
I love it - probably straight from the GM assembly line. "Hey Joe - where's that 5-lb hammer?"
You'd have to love it if you were there. In the 60's, a necessary assembly tool on the frame line was a hammer and a drift pin to get these things to go together. If your repairman lost his hammer/drift pin you either couldn't build or just shut the line off and you know you didn't do that. Guess what? The hammer and drift pin weren't mentioned ANYHERE in the assembly tools required.
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Old 01-24-2015, 07:04 PM
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I think the paint shop IS the second opinion since I'm pretty sure that rich5962 pointed up your bent frame issue several weeks back...

If you can jigger the clutch ball stud bracket to get it functioning acceptably then that's what I would do....nobody will ever know it was done but you unless they use lasers....

There are prob dozens of C1s roaming the streets with similar issues and nobody is the wiser...
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Old 01-24-2015, 07:34 PM
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jusplainwacky
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I think the paint shop IS the second opinion since I'm pretty sure that rich5962 pointed up your bent frame issue several weeks back...
I knew the frame was bent and so did Rich, and the decision was to take it to a frame shop to have them physically take a look at it. I was really hoping for someone that has a frame shop to give me their 2-cents on if it was possible to pull this section outward or is there a good chance of crippling the frame even more.

I'm incline to just cut the bracket off and move it, which isn't a big deal, but again, if a pro said, it shouldn't be any big deal to pull out, then I would get a second opinion.
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Old 01-25-2015, 04:04 AM
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Totally unqualified to offer expert advice but since the clutch cross shaft works without a felt washer then I wouldn't think pulling on the frame just a tiny bit would hurt anything. To me, you wouldn't have to cut and weld things. Sounds to me that if it moved 1/8" the clutch problem is solved? However, I would think the diagonal measurements would be what would concern me the most. Nothing worse than watching a bad tracking vehicle. Especially an old corvette!

You can fix anything correctly if you are willing to spend enough money. Interested to hear what you do and if you satisfactorily solve issue. Good.
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Old 01-25-2015, 10:36 AM
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You can do the "2nd opinion" to death.
If the 2nd opinion conflicts with the 1st, then you need a tie breaker........

Just cut and weld the bracket back into the correct position.

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Old 01-25-2015, 11:37 AM
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jusplainwacky
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I would think that you could pull the frame out slowly and see if it starts to kink....but then again, I'm not a frame expert and because of this, I'm incline to just cut the bracket and weld on an extension.
It tracked fine and could be aligned....it's just that the clutch rod and cross shaft are off.
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Old 01-25-2015, 01:14 PM
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I can't believe nobody though of the easiest way out of this:

Take the Z bar to a welding shop, have them cut the necessary amount out of the middle of the bar,a nd weld it back together in its shortened position. A piece of steel drilled through the middle, and the inside diameter of the bar, inserted into the middle of the bar would provide straightness and strength to the weld.

A long score mark, scored into the length of the bar bar before cutting, would allow precise realignment of the two halves.

Much easier to cut and weld outside the car, than to try to move a bracket with the body on.

A little heat applied to each tab (can't think of a better name), and slightly bend each tab out a bit to the original distance for linkage connection,and I doubt any judge would notice it was modified.

No frame work involved at all.

Doug

Last edited by AZDoug; 01-25-2015 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 01-25-2015, 01:15 PM
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GCD1962
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Don't mess with the bracket on the frame. You don't have to cut and weld the bracket from the bellhousing, just slot (elongate) the hole to move it slightly forward or backward
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Old 01-25-2015, 02:18 PM
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jusplainwacky
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Hey Doug....

Take the Z bar to a welding shop, have them cut the necessary amount out of the middle of the bar and weld it back together
.
A little heat applied to each tab (can't think of a better name), and slightly bend each tab out
I actually talked about this with Rich and I personally think it would require more work and a lot more heat in/around the frame then just moving the bracket and using the wire-feeder. To bend those "tabs" you refer to would require a lot of heat (gas) and I really don't want to be throwing a flame down in there if I can avoid it. I have welding equipment (gas and wire-feeder...sold my stick) and could easily move the bracket and I was planning to do this, but thought before I did, I'd check with any frame experts on here. Like I said above, if some frame guy said "it would be an easy pull" then I think I'd talk to the shop and perhaps try to bend it out...SLOWLY.

I think the consensus is to leave the frame as it is.

Last edited by jusplainwacky; 01-25-2015 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 01-25-2015, 02:45 PM
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All this is on the Z bar , NOT the frame. The cutting, welding, bending. Doing al this in a bench vise, seems a lot easier than moving brackets welded to the frame.

I think you misunderstand, though i am not sure what to call those tabs (edit: lever arms) on the Z bar the clutch fork rod, and clutch pedal rod , attach to.

You are modifying the Z bar to fit your frame, not the other way around.

Doug



Originally Posted by jusplainwacky View Post
Hey Doug....

.


I actually talked about this with Rich and I personally think it would require more work and a lot more heat in/around the frame then just moving the bracket and using the wire-feeder. To bend those "tabs" you refer to would require a lot of heat (gas) and I really don't want to be throwing a flame down in there if I can avoid it. I have welding equipment (gas and wire-feeder...sold my stick) and could easily move the bracket and I was planning to do this, but thought before I did, I'd check with any frame experts on here. Like I said above, if some frame guy said "it would be an easy pull" then I think I'd talk to the shop and perhaps try to bend it out...SLOWLY.

I think the consensus is to leave the frame as it is.

Last edited by AZDoug; 01-25-2015 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 01-25-2015, 03:12 PM
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jusplainwacky
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Ahh...I did misunderstand you....thanks for clarifying.

There are 2 problems....one is the distance between the ball joints...it's too small and your solution would fix the problem.; The other problem is....the clutch rod is about 1/2 inch away from the bracket. Moving the bracket fixes both.
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