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First mystery motor in C2 not Impala-latest issue of Hot Rod
Picked up the latest issue of Hot Rod to read on a plane ride to Chicago. Article says Duntov and Yunick raced the first 427 in a 63 SW. Interesting read.
Agreed a great article. They were two Mickey Thompson 63 Z06's with the new Mark 2 427's built and installed by Smokey Yunick. Smokey gave them the NASCAR set up to be raced at Daytona's American Challenge Cup the week before the Mark 2 Mystery Motors made their debut in the Impala at the 1963 Daytona 500.
Interesting in the picture of the number 3 car above it has Junior Johnson as the driver. According to the article Junior backed out before the race since the car was so evil handling. Bill Krause took over the driving of the number 3 car.
Paul Goldsmith's Super Duty 421 Tempest shown in your picture won the American Challenge Cup race. A J Foyt came in second is a small block 63 Z06. Krause finished third in the number 3 427 powered Z06.
I am not a racer, but I notice something in the picture that is interesting to me. One car looks to have the hood open and the other has headlights partially open. Think that is coincidence or are they trying to take some air off the front end.
Thanks for posting! I wouldn't have noticed the article if you hadn't mentioned it. I do remember reading a lot of this in Smoky Yunick's 3 volume bio 12 years or so ago.
I personally think this car is one of the 327 cars, because where is the hood!
The Krause 327 Mickey Thompson car! Sorry prove me wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When this car was found, they decided to go hunt down a 427 and it did not have the modified hood which was done special on the two actual 427 cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I posted this up last year in the L88 thread and more somewhere else in the past!
I am real big on dates/time periods when I research, but alot of guys forget their importance.
There is a thread on the Mystery motors that I almost jumped into, commented but didn't.
OK Mystery Motor basics 101
Engineering began summer 1962 by Dick Keineth
Fall 62 Tested in a stock car racer at Indianapolis raceway Park
1st appeared at practice Jan 1963 for the Daytona 500 engines given to 5 teams
Junior Johnson/Ray Fox
G. Spencer/Ray Fox
Johnny Rutherford/Smokey Yunick
Rex White/Rex White Driver/Owner
Bubbar Farr/WH Harrison
The race was on Feb 24, but you had the 100 mile Qualifiers on Feb 16th which one was won by Junior Johnson the first race and the second qual race by Johnny Rutherford, with Rex White second (and we brushed on his install of a 427 in the Grand Sport for the 1965 Sebring which was one of the 427 MK II's).
So enter the Corvette part of the story- During this time NASCAR was trying to enter road Racing also! So the American Challenge Cup GT Race, a Nascar sanctioned Road Race using the banking was also added as a part of Speed Week) This was run at Daytona on Feb 16th with the two 427 Corvettes, not to be confused with the next day event Feb 17th 1963, the 3-Hour Continental that would become the Daytona 24 Hours race. So go figure two 427's were run in advance of the Daytona 500 in Corvettes. Therefore I would technically call this more testing!!!!!!!! Qualification races for the Cup GT event was done on Feb 10th and one Corvette driven by J. Johnson#3 (Silver) and one by R. White #4 (White), go figure!!!!! In this qualification race, there were two #3 cars and two #4 cars which has caused a lot of confusion with these cars! Johnson #3 427 silver, Hooper #3 327 blue, White #4 427 white, and Krause #4 327 silver!!! I think in the modern these are still mixed up by the Secret Society! But I am going to look up the early find articles on #47 (because the comments didn't know what he had and ""reunited"" with the engine??? I would think Krause was more inclined to take his #4 car home (the Z-06 327 one!). Krause in the Continental drove his assigned #4 Z-06 327. Mickey prepped both silver cars the same is what i believe, except for the engines that were dropped! The Hooper car was the former Riverside winner! The Mickey Thompson silver cars were not at the initial Riverside and neither was the White car to get the 427!!! PS another hint, who were the west coast guys (Krause, Hooper), and who were east coast (Johnson, White). Plus the NASCAR guys had control of these engines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!! And Mickey had the Corvettes and really liked the idea, so it happened, but Mickey did not leave with those engines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The first Contential was run in 1962 where Gurney rolled with the starter assist across the finish line in the California Arciero #96 car! This 1963 Contential featured 12 Corvettes (I think 12 Z-06's), but the two 427's were not run in this third race based on FIA homologation!
Hint hint Rutherford and White entered in Daytona 500, Rutherford and White qualifying the 427 Corvettes for the upcoming Feb 16th event, but the cars handed over to Billy Krause #3 (silver car number #3, but also in the same race was Hooper #3 but a blue 327) and Rex White #4 (did 38 laps and retired-- and he was the one that was not liking the handling and visibility!, so then Mickey himself jumped in) to finish the GT race and he claimed it broke. The Daytona 500 qualifiers were run this same day as the American Challenge Cup is why the NASCAR pilots stepped aside and it was raining that day!
Hint hint hint-- Engines got out the door Jan 1963 and made it into the hands of the teams for the Daytona 500 race. Chevrolet racing ban reinforced latter part of Jan 1963, so Chevy cheated not making it to the required 50 engines because the racing programs were shut down prior to completion of the batch and they then had to use some trickery to not get caught at Daytona with the engines that did get out the door. So they moved engines after inspections done for one Team out the back as the inspectors left out front to the next outfit, so those could be counted unknowly again by the inspections, so they came up with 50??? Bet they didn't, but the inspectors were convinced enough to let them run. One engine was handed to Holman & Moody later, but initially two were made available to other Competitors (technically one for Ford and one for the Mopar guys was the offer)! They were to be picked up at a local Chevrolet Dealership to further give the appearance of production, but neither Ford nor Mopar went to get them!!!!! Oh ya, the install into the Corvettes was another smoke and mirror tactic to give the appearance of Production!!!!!! The Nascar guys later found out they were duped!
Enough parts released for 42-44 engines, but only 26 ever assembled. Only 9 traced in the modern! Dyno test got 620hp prior to 1963 Daytona. All cast between August 1962 and January 1963. best article on the engine was may 1963 hot Rod magazine!
The Mark III was an attempt to design in a larger bore center, but that change would have been expensive, so none were ever produced.
I guess I will have to get ahold of this latest Hot Rod and see what kind of a mess has been made, to mess up this story further and the chain of events!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 10-25-2015 at 08:39 PM.
They actually did a real decent job, with only some big mistakes here and there! But overall, not bad! I have to layout the article side by side with the actual history to further study it!
I question as to Johnson and White being hired, because this was a Chevrolet thing. This Libre race (12 car) being staged on the oval, the call was to put the NASCAR stars in the cars. Thompson technically didn't hire them! This is actually the first time, that i heard about the ill handling concerns by Thompson- that is a first for me! Every piece of the puzzle helps!
The article says they were entered in the Continential, but the 427 cars were ineligible since they were not homologated! No pictures shows those cars in that particular race (with the funky scoops)! No 427 cars were inspected by FIA. Added, the 427 cars were actually run in race practice for the Continental, as you didnt have to tech to practice, and this got more miles on those MKII engines, dyrability testing.
Both of the Silver cars went to Yunick and he did the sway bar setup on both of those cars. The white car went there also for the engine fitting, got the sway bar and from testing the 6 lug fronts, but then went to Rex White's garages for further work to prepare accounting for variations in the prep like the fender clearancing, the Thompson garage adding the windshield clips, etc.!
Magnesium rear differentials were not fitted!
Are more errors, I feel! just trying to keep it on the up and up!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 02-09-2021 at 04:03 PM.
The silver number three car photo from this thread is way different from the hot rod magazine photos from the race. What's up with the "63" having 64 style pillar vents. They are obviously not in the original photos. Also the #3 car has massive cuts in the quarters. #4 is much more stock appearing. Cool thread.
I am still cross checking this all and adding, changing some of the history I had on this all, but feel a lot of what i researched is accurate and additional to this story!
I initially came across kind of negative (but you guys know me) toward Hot Rod, but they really did try to do a good job to capture the story and the picture finds are awesome! I don't by anyway or means have this whole story myself, but probably was getting as close to it as any human that exists! I can tell Hot Rod in the story had holes or things that didn't add up and got a little vague.
All the more reason for everyone to pull the data, stories, etc. together!
On the car, I do feel it is one of the Thompson car's found. I just have never thought since it's first discovery and restore to #47 in the blue and then vintage raced that it is one of the big block ones! I have crawled all over and under this car when it first surfaced at west coast Vintage events. But naturally this is just an enthusiasts opinion if that is still respected!
PS so where is the six lug conversion? and why did this car not have the hood when found! It is an extremely historical car as the 327 Z-06 that was competing at Daytona in the FIA race which was way more prestigious than this run what you brung tri-oval shoot out 12 cars, during an obscure speed week filler race! Lastly I would have to check results sheets for the lap mileage to see if this included any of the road course. In the modern, most of a lap is on the banking! Because of some of the dedicated road race cars, i had always assumed so. Ultimately NASCAR's attempt at a road racing series only lasted so many years and this event could have preceded that? I would have to get the books out!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 10-26-2015 at 01:37 PM.
10-24-2015, 08:38 AM
First mystery motor in C2 not Impala-latest issue of Hot Rod
