Value of Restomods
02-14-2016, 01:24 PM
#21
Some people finally get to the $$$ point where they can afford one nice toy. Most restomods sell at a loss but the loss will not equal the depreciation of say a c6 zr1 after several years. If you can only have one toy due to garage space or $$$, it does make sense.
In general, the popularity of restos will grow because new cars are getting very expensive and very complicated. A decked out 4 x 4 pickup can be $50k plus. You can build a better 4 x 4 for less and not have as much depreciation.
15 years ago I did an 89 Surburban. I bought it for $8k did $5k in mods, and liked it better than a new one for $40k. I drove it for 5 years and sold it for $10k. Vintage cars can be good investments. Restos can be cost effective toys or transportation.
I will drive the wheels off my modded 65 coupe when it is finished. It cost as much as a zr1, but should hold more value in the long run.
In general, the popularity of restos will grow because new cars are getting very expensive and very complicated. A decked out 4 x 4 pickup can be $50k plus. You can build a better 4 x 4 for less and not have as much depreciation.
15 years ago I did an 89 Surburban. I bought it for $8k did $5k in mods, and liked it better than a new one for $40k. I drove it for 5 years and sold it for $10k. Vintage cars can be good investments. Restos can be cost effective toys or transportation.
I will drive the wheels off my modded 65 coupe when it is finished. It cost as much as a zr1, but should hold more value in the long run.
Last edited by uxojerry; 02-14-2016 at 05:38 PM.
02-14-2016, 02:37 PM
#22
Melting Slicks
Having said all that I will dispute the reliability factor. In 10 years with classic Corvettes and a dozen years before that in first gen Mustangs I've been towed home twice. Once when I put the oil canister on wrong in a Corvette and once when an upper control arm broke autocrossing a Mustang. If your original car is unreliable it's largely the owners fault. Remember folks our Moms and sisters drove these cars every day 50 years ago.
Last edited by biggd; 02-14-2016 at 02:39 PM.
02-14-2016, 04:20 PM
#23
Team Owner
Sure - if you drive modern vs old cars to the limit of their serviceable life the modern car will win. In the daily driving of a well-maintained (not worn out) classic car vs a restomod I'll stick by my statement. I've jump started restomods from my original '61 and seen them towed off on a rollback at car shows while I stayed at the event the whole time and drove home without a hitch.
Modern machine tolerances, fuel injection and computers extend the life of modern cars - no argument. I sold my perfectly running Mazda pickup last year with 175,000 miles on it to get a new car and my wife's Durango just hit 180,000. I get that.
Modern machine tolerances, fuel injection and computers extend the life of modern cars - no argument. I sold my perfectly running Mazda pickup last year with 175,000 miles on it to get a new car and my wife's Durango just hit 180,000. I get that.
02-14-2016, 04:40 PM
#25
Team Owner
02-14-2016, 04:44 PM
#26
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History dictates the stock cars will always hold there value over time. Once these resto mods get 10-15 years old and the technology is old hat and out dated we will see I also question if the fabricated custom parts will stand the test of time. Auto manufacturers spend millions in R&D on there new parts to see when and how they will fail. I know these custom car builders don't do any of that
02-14-2016, 05:44 PM
#27
Melting Slicks
Sure - if you drive modern vs old cars to the limit of their serviceable life the modern car will win. In the daily driving of a well-maintained (not worn out) classic car vs a restomod I'll stick by my statement. I've jump started restomods from my original '61 and seen them towed off on a rollback at car shows while I stayed at the event the whole time and drove home without a hitch.
Modern machine tolerances, fuel injection and computers extend the life of modern cars - no argument. I sold my perfectly running Mazda pickup last year with 175,000 miles on it to get a new car and my wife's Durango just hit 180,000. I get that.
Modern machine tolerances, fuel injection and computers extend the life of modern cars - no argument. I sold my perfectly running Mazda pickup last year with 175,000 miles on it to get a new car and my wife's Durango just hit 180,000. I get that.
02-14-2016, 06:09 PM
#28
Safety Car
History dictates the stock cars will always hold there value over time. Once these resto mods get 10-15 years old and the technology is old hat and out dated we will see I also question if the fabricated custom parts will stand the test of time. Auto manufacturers spend millions in R&D on there new parts to see when and how they will fail. I know these custom car builders don't do any of that
02-14-2016, 06:57 PM
#29
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Maybe not on the well built car. As the cream will rise to the top. The quick put together cars maybe not. I have been wrong before
02-14-2016, 07:10 PM
#30
Le Mans Master
The resto mod that is built on an after market frame with proper updating of drive train, suspension and braking systems. Not the 79 with a holley tbi system and headers on it.
02-14-2016, 09:01 PM
#31
Drifting
Thread Starter
It's all about supply and demand. There is a big demand right now so builders will supply them. Eventually when demand slows, prices will drop and it won't pay to build them anymore. You're already seeing the older resto-mods already dropping in value below the build cost.
02-14-2016, 09:40 PM
#32
Le Mans Master
When did the artificial Corvettes become worth more than the original? After watching the Barrett Jackson auctions I'm seeing these custom "Corvettes" that sit on after market frames with after market drive trains and custom interiors sell for, sometimes, twice the sale price of a true vintage Corvette. I don't care if it's a "fuelie" or numbers matching car, the fake Corvette is bringing a whole lot more money than the true Corvette on the auction block.
What is with that?
What is with that?
02-15-2016, 07:23 AM
#33
Team Owner
Restomod myths:
1) Original cars are destroyed.
Perhaps in some rare cases, the majority I've seen were developed from project cars with missing or NOM drivetrains. Many times these are disassembled cars from some prior owner that got in over his head.
2) You can't make money on them.
Of course you can, the money is made when you buy the project car. $25K for a project car, $80K labor/parts and you have a car worth $140K-$158K. Do your own labor and the deal gets even sweeter. BTW - restomod builders get massive discounts on nearly everything. If you can sell off the original frame/drivetrain/components you can get into the 35%-50% profit range on a car. Don't change occupations just yet though - this is ***-kicking work.
Many people that buy these cars aren't bargain hunters - they buy want they want, for what is asked, and then go back to managing their hedge fund or chain of restaurants.
3) Restomods don't hold their value.
See my post about the '62 above, over a decade old and is still well into the price range mentioned in item #2 above (prob higher). A periodic engine upgrade every 6-8 years (about $6K, maybe an interior redo at some point $5K) and an occasional electronics gizmo upgrade will keep the value up.
4) Restomods are worth less than original cars.
Unless the original car has some special race heritage or is a top-of-the-line highly desirable car the restomod will be worth more - every time. The fit, finish and appearance of a restomod over an original car can be striking. Show chrome with no factory waves, gaps massaged to perfection, NO patina anywhere. Frankly, I think the way NCRS is going they are going to make restomods a more viable option than ever.
Like Elvis, the definition of 'original' is leaving the building.
5) Restomods will lose value if you drive them much.
Also not true, ask dcaggini on here who drives his 64 a bunch.The '62 above is driven regularly too. Forum member mark6669 often drives his split window restomod an hour through Florida love bugs to Old Town. Of course, there are maintenance things you must do to any driven car. Having said that -- restomods don't have airbags, crush zones, collapsible steering columns, etc.. -- neither do original cars.
6) There is no R&D on restomods for long-term durability/reliability
I guess a case could be made for that. Most of the nicer restomods are built on rolling chassis with drivetrain/suspension/etc in an integrated frame. The manufacturers of these use off-the-shelf, well-wrung out components available on many modern cars; so the issue would be how well they are integrated. These builders are specialized in what they produce and have refined the design over years of effort.
========================================
All this refers to the high-end builds, not the ZZ4 crammed onto the original frame and with factory-quality body/brightwork. The above is based on my observing prob 20 restomods being built by various builders (and helping out on some of them) and also running alongside them on the highway every weekend.
Now, I've gotten to this point with some skepticism and chagrin as my cars have always been original and I have to swallow hard to accept the above facts.
The naysayers can pile on now and I would agree with them.
But then we'd both be wrong.
1) Original cars are destroyed.
Perhaps in some rare cases, the majority I've seen were developed from project cars with missing or NOM drivetrains. Many times these are disassembled cars from some prior owner that got in over his head.
2) You can't make money on them.
Of course you can, the money is made when you buy the project car. $25K for a project car, $80K labor/parts and you have a car worth $140K-$158K. Do your own labor and the deal gets even sweeter. BTW - restomod builders get massive discounts on nearly everything. If you can sell off the original frame/drivetrain/components you can get into the 35%-50% profit range on a car. Don't change occupations just yet though - this is ***-kicking work.
Many people that buy these cars aren't bargain hunters - they buy want they want, for what is asked, and then go back to managing their hedge fund or chain of restaurants.
3) Restomods don't hold their value.
See my post about the '62 above, over a decade old and is still well into the price range mentioned in item #2 above (prob higher). A periodic engine upgrade every 6-8 years (about $6K, maybe an interior redo at some point $5K) and an occasional electronics gizmo upgrade will keep the value up.
4) Restomods are worth less than original cars.
Unless the original car has some special race heritage or is a top-of-the-line highly desirable car the restomod will be worth more - every time. The fit, finish and appearance of a restomod over an original car can be striking. Show chrome with no factory waves, gaps massaged to perfection, NO patina anywhere. Frankly, I think the way NCRS is going they are going to make restomods a more viable option than ever.
Like Elvis, the definition of 'original' is leaving the building.
5) Restomods will lose value if you drive them much.
Also not true, ask dcaggini on here who drives his 64 a bunch.The '62 above is driven regularly too. Forum member mark6669 often drives his split window restomod an hour through Florida love bugs to Old Town. Of course, there are maintenance things you must do to any driven car. Having said that -- restomods don't have airbags, crush zones, collapsible steering columns, etc.. -- neither do original cars.
6) There is no R&D on restomods for long-term durability/reliability
I guess a case could be made for that. Most of the nicer restomods are built on rolling chassis with drivetrain/suspension/etc in an integrated frame. The manufacturers of these use off-the-shelf, well-wrung out components available on many modern cars; so the issue would be how well they are integrated. These builders are specialized in what they produce and have refined the design over years of effort.
========================================
All this refers to the high-end builds, not the ZZ4 crammed onto the original frame and with factory-quality body/brightwork. The above is based on my observing prob 20 restomods being built by various builders (and helping out on some of them) and also running alongside them on the highway every weekend.
Now, I've gotten to this point with some skepticism and chagrin as my cars have always been original and I have to swallow hard to accept the above facts.
The naysayers can pile on now and I would agree with them.
But then we'd both be wrong.
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; 02-15-2016 at 09:58 AM.
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02-15-2016, 08:20 AM
#34
Melting Slicks
Restomod myths:
1) Original cars are destroyed.
Perhaps in some rare cases, the majority I've seen were developed from project cars with missing or NOM drivetrains. Many times these are disassembled cars from some prior owner that got in over his head.
2) You can't make money on them.
Of course you can, the money is made when you buy the project car. $25K for a project car, $80K labor/parts and you have a car worth $140K-$158K. Do your own labor and the deal gets even sweeter. BTW - restomod builders get massive discounts on nearly everything. If you can sell off the original frame/drivetrain/components you can get into the 35%-50% profit range on a car. Many people that buy these cars aren't bargain hunters - they buy want they want, for what is asked, and then go back to managing their hedge fund or chain of restaurants.
3) Restomods don't hold their value.
See my post about the '62 above, over a decade old and is still well into the price range mentioned in item #2 above (or higher). A periodic engine upgrade every 6-8 years (about $6K, maybe an interior redo at some point $5K) and an occasional electronics gizmo upgrade will keep the value up.
4) Restomods are worth less than original cars.
Unless the original car has some special race heritage or is a top-of-the-line highly desirable car the restomod will be worth more - every time. The fit, finish and appearance of a restomod over an original car can be striking. Show chrome with no factory waves, gaps massaged to perfection, NO patina anywhere. Frankly, I think the way NCRS is going they are going to make restomods a more viable option than ever.
Like Elvis, the definition of 'original' is leaving the building.
5) Restomods will lose value if you drive them much.
Also not true, ask dcaggini on here who drives his 64 a bunch.The '62 above is driven regularly too. Of course, there are maintenance things you must do to any driven car. Having said that -- restomods don't have airbags, crush zones, collapsible steering columns, etc.. -- neither do original cars.
6) There is no R&D on restomods for long-term durability/reliability
I guess a case could be made for that. Most of the nicer restomods are built on rolling chassis with drivetrain/suspension/etc in an integrated frame. The manufacturers of these use off-the-shelf, well-wrung out components available on many modern cars; so the issue would be how well they are integrated. These builders are specialized in what they produce and have refined the design over years of effort.
========================================
All this refers to the high-end builds, not the ZZ4 crammed onto the original frame and with factory-quality body/brightwork. The above is based on my observing prob 20 restomods being built by various builders (and helping out on some of them) and also running alongside them on the highway every weekend.
Now, I've gotten to this point with some skepticism and chagrin as my cars have always been original and I have to swallow hard to accept the above facts.
The naysayers can pile on now and I would agree with them. But then we'd both be wrong.
1) Original cars are destroyed.
Perhaps in some rare cases, the majority I've seen were developed from project cars with missing or NOM drivetrains. Many times these are disassembled cars from some prior owner that got in over his head.
2) You can't make money on them.
Of course you can, the money is made when you buy the project car. $25K for a project car, $80K labor/parts and you have a car worth $140K-$158K. Do your own labor and the deal gets even sweeter. BTW - restomod builders get massive discounts on nearly everything. If you can sell off the original frame/drivetrain/components you can get into the 35%-50% profit range on a car. Many people that buy these cars aren't bargain hunters - they buy want they want, for what is asked, and then go back to managing their hedge fund or chain of restaurants.
3) Restomods don't hold their value.
See my post about the '62 above, over a decade old and is still well into the price range mentioned in item #2 above (or higher). A periodic engine upgrade every 6-8 years (about $6K, maybe an interior redo at some point $5K) and an occasional electronics gizmo upgrade will keep the value up.
4) Restomods are worth less than original cars.
Unless the original car has some special race heritage or is a top-of-the-line highly desirable car the restomod will be worth more - every time. The fit, finish and appearance of a restomod over an original car can be striking. Show chrome with no factory waves, gaps massaged to perfection, NO patina anywhere. Frankly, I think the way NCRS is going they are going to make restomods a more viable option than ever.
Like Elvis, the definition of 'original' is leaving the building.
5) Restomods will lose value if you drive them much.
Also not true, ask dcaggini on here who drives his 64 a bunch.The '62 above is driven regularly too. Of course, there are maintenance things you must do to any driven car. Having said that -- restomods don't have airbags, crush zones, collapsible steering columns, etc.. -- neither do original cars.
6) There is no R&D on restomods for long-term durability/reliability
I guess a case could be made for that. Most of the nicer restomods are built on rolling chassis with drivetrain/suspension/etc in an integrated frame. The manufacturers of these use off-the-shelf, well-wrung out components available on many modern cars; so the issue would be how well they are integrated. These builders are specialized in what they produce and have refined the design over years of effort.
========================================
All this refers to the high-end builds, not the ZZ4 crammed onto the original frame and with factory-quality body/brightwork. The above is based on my observing prob 20 restomods being built by various builders (and helping out on some of them) and also running alongside them on the highway every weekend.
Now, I've gotten to this point with some skepticism and chagrin as my cars have always been original and I have to swallow hard to accept the above facts.
The naysayers can pile on now and I would agree with them. But then we'd both be wrong.
I love the resto mods but some of the older ones that I've seen are selling for well below their builds cost. Although they are still nice looking cars they are now older technology. Those are the bargains that I look for.
Last edited by biggd; 02-15-2016 at 08:27 AM.
02-15-2016, 08:23 AM
#35
Team Owner
I have an apple I'm selling for $250,000 - I only need one buyer. Such things are statistically irrelevant.
If you're finding bargain restomods, I would submit they are not the high-end builds or else haven't been kept current with some minimal upgrades...examples are welcome.
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; 02-15-2016 at 08:31 AM.
02-15-2016, 01:34 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
I have seen the ads for the so called "bargain" RestoMods in the $70-90k range. what you will see upon closer scrutiny is that they are NOT the higher end builds that demand the $150k plus money. That does not mean they are not bargains - just a different class that would make a great weekend driver.
More times than not, it is the craftsmanship that lowers the overall value. An engine or transmission or even suspension can be changed at a "reasonable" cost, but craftsmanship on door gaps, body and paint, interior finishing and so on - is very expensive to address. In other cases, it is simply that the Restomod does not have it all as described below.
The high end RestoMods that command the big bucks do have it all:
1. Newly engineered chassis with late model suspension and brakes (c5-7)
2. Electronic Fuel injection engine (typically LS) coupled to a modern transmission (5 or 6spd manual or automatic)
3. Top level craftsmanship for body/paint/interior/electronics and so on.
All things being equal above, a Restomod with the LS9 or newer will command more money than the LS3 but it does not necessarily indicate a huge depreciation for the LS3 Restomod over the LS9 in my simple example.
I have a 64 Restomod with an aftermarket chassis, LS3, 5-speed Tremec, and all the bells and whistles that I had completed over 3 years ago. Based on what I have seen with recent sales, the value has held if not appreciated a little.
More times than not, it is the craftsmanship that lowers the overall value. An engine or transmission or even suspension can be changed at a "reasonable" cost, but craftsmanship on door gaps, body and paint, interior finishing and so on - is very expensive to address. In other cases, it is simply that the Restomod does not have it all as described below.
The high end RestoMods that command the big bucks do have it all:
1. Newly engineered chassis with late model suspension and brakes (c5-7)
2. Electronic Fuel injection engine (typically LS) coupled to a modern transmission (5 or 6spd manual or automatic)
3. Top level craftsmanship for body/paint/interior/electronics and so on.
All things being equal above, a Restomod with the LS9 or newer will command more money than the LS3 but it does not necessarily indicate a huge depreciation for the LS3 Restomod over the LS9 in my simple example.
I have a 64 Restomod with an aftermarket chassis, LS3, 5-speed Tremec, and all the bells and whistles that I had completed over 3 years ago. Based on what I have seen with recent sales, the value has held if not appreciated a little.
02-15-2016, 03:15 PM
#37
Drifting
Thread Starter
Since this seems to have evolved to a discussion on restomods, there is one question I have about them and that would be, how much to insure?
When I worked in Harley sales at a local dealership we used to build custom bikes that would be the equivalent of a Corvette restomod. The bikes were built with custom frames (purchased from a company specializing in that item with serial number), utilizing big cu in engines that we either built or purchased from a company specializing in that item, and finally we would either fabricate or purchase whatever sheet metal components required. The bikes were beautiful, well-engineered machines but, due to the fact they were not produced by an OEM, the cost to insure them would triple the amount a customer would pay for insurance. Our shop got out of building custom bikes around 2007 or so mainly because of the difficulties involved with selling the finished machines as a result of insurance issues.
When I worked in Harley sales at a local dealership we used to build custom bikes that would be the equivalent of a Corvette restomod. The bikes were built with custom frames (purchased from a company specializing in that item with serial number), utilizing big cu in engines that we either built or purchased from a company specializing in that item, and finally we would either fabricate or purchase whatever sheet metal components required. The bikes were beautiful, well-engineered machines but, due to the fact they were not produced by an OEM, the cost to insure them would triple the amount a customer would pay for insurance. Our shop got out of building custom bikes around 2007 or so mainly because of the difficulties involved with selling the finished machines as a result of insurance issues.
02-15-2016, 03:38 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
Just remember, the premium is based on the $ amount of the stated value therefore, the higher the value, the higher your premium.
In the case with my Corvette and Nomad, both have original VIN numbers and are Titled as such..... In other words, they are not "specialty built vehicles" under the definition provided by the State where I reside.
Last edited by dcaggiani; 02-15-2016 at 03:40 PM.
02-15-2016, 04:49 PM
#39
Team Owner
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Location: Florida
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I have seen the ads for the so called "bargain" RestoMods in the $70-90k range. what you will see upon closer scrutiny is that they are NOT the higher end builds that demand the $150k plus money. That does not mean they are not bargains - just a different class that would make a great weekend driver.
More times than not, it is the craftsmanship that lowers the overall value. An engine or transmission or even suspension can be changed at a "reasonable" cost, but craftsmanship on door gaps, body and paint, interior finishing and so on - is very expensive to address. In other cases, it is simply that the Restomod does not have it all as described below.
The high end RestoMods that command the big bucks do have it all:
1. Newly engineered chassis with late model suspension and brakes (c5-7)
2. Electronic Fuel injection engine (typically LS) coupled to a modern transmission (5 or 6spd manual or automatic)
3. Top level craftsmanship for body/paint/interior/electronics and so on.
All things being equal above, a Restomod with the LS9 or newer will command more money than the LS3 but it does not necessarily indicate a huge depreciation for the LS3 Restomod over the LS9 in my simple example.
I have a 64 Restomod with an aftermarket chassis, LS3, 5-speed Tremec, and all the bells and whistles that I had completed over 3 years ago. Based on what I have seen with recent sales, the value has held if not appreciated a little.
More times than not, it is the craftsmanship that lowers the overall value. An engine or transmission or even suspension can be changed at a "reasonable" cost, but craftsmanship on door gaps, body and paint, interior finishing and so on - is very expensive to address. In other cases, it is simply that the Restomod does not have it all as described below.
The high end RestoMods that command the big bucks do have it all:
1. Newly engineered chassis with late model suspension and brakes (c5-7)
2. Electronic Fuel injection engine (typically LS) coupled to a modern transmission (5 or 6spd manual or automatic)
3. Top level craftsmanship for body/paint/interior/electronics and so on.
All things being equal above, a Restomod with the LS9 or newer will command more money than the LS3 but it does not necessarily indicate a huge depreciation for the LS3 Restomod over the LS9 in my simple example.
I have a 64 Restomod with an aftermarket chassis, LS3, 5-speed Tremec, and all the bells and whistles that I had completed over 3 years ago. Based on what I have seen with recent sales, the value has held if not appreciated a little.
02-15-2016, 05:01 PM
#40
