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I am the owner of a 1959 Corvette. I purchased and have had in my possession the title and the car since 1964 (over 52 years) It has been titled in Texas all this time and registered through 1973. At that time I ceased registering it because I started a Frame Off restoration which was delayed by new job and family. It was on the bucket list for retirement. The past 2 years have been quite active in restoration only to find my VIN has been compromised. When I went to Texas they found my original title in the dead file and was going to refresh it and send a certified copy. A few minutes later they said they could not as it had been titled in 2007 in Arizona. This was 2 months ago and very little progress. Texas said they would restore my title but AZ had to remove it from the NMVTIS.
AZ has inspected the car and located NO visible VIN. They will not discuss with me, however I discovered the AZ title number, and the owner.
The car I discovered came from California when it was re-titled in AZ.
The VIN is for my car J59S10----. The same VIN is on the AZ title but the description is 1950 Chev 2 dr. DMV acknowledges that but will not describe the car as to fiberglass or metal body, etc. How did a car get a new title in AZ without a visible VIN. My car has the original visible VIN on the pillar post and a Florida VIN verification by Florida Sheriffs dept. Arizona requested the hidden VIN (on the frame under floor board. This would require cutting out floorboard or lifting body off the frame. I have suggested they first identify what kind of car they are looking at. A 59 Corvette is not a similar body to a 1950 Chevrolet.
With some work, a fine stiff bristle wire brush, soap, water and degreaser (in no particular order), I was able to make the frame VIN visible on my '61 frame using a mirror and flash light. The state sent someone out to my house to look at the VIN when i was able to make it visible from underneath on jack stands.
You might try that. Do you know where on the frame to look?
With some work, a fine stiff bristle wire brush, soap, water and degreaser (in no particular order), I was able to make the frame VIN visible on my '61 frame using a mirror and flash light. The state sent someone out to my house to look at the VIN when i was able to make it visible from underneath on jack stands.
You might try that. Do you know where on the frame to look?
With some work, a fine stiff bristle wire brush, soap, water and degreaser (in no particular order), I was able to make the frame VIN visible on my '61 frame using a mirror and flash light. The state sent someone out to my house to look at the VIN when i was able to make it visible from underneath on jack stands.
You might try that. Do you know where on the frame to look?
Doug
In the general area. Top of frame under the drivers seat? My floor pan is less than 1/4 inch off the frame, Some wooden wedges may lift it a little.
I primed, painted and undercoated 40 years ago when I had the body off. No room for a brush unless I am not remembering where the number was. How big are the numbers and more detail on location if you have them. Thanks
I am the owner of a 1959 Corvette. I purchased and have had in my possession the title and the car since 1964 (over 52 years) It has been titled in Texas all this time and registered through 1973. At that time I ceased registering it because I started a Frame Off restoration which was delayed by new job and family. It was on the bucket list for retirement. The past 2 years have been quite active in restoration only to find my VIN has been compromised.
I have a very similar story on my 64. Only I had a typo on the title. DMV made an inspection and cleared my title.
Now if you have a Texas title, why did you do this:
Originally Posted by Maddog1
When I went to Texas they found my original title in the dead file and was going to refresh it and send a certified copy. A few minutes later they said they could not as it had been titled in 2007 in Arizona. This was 2 months ago and very little progress. Texas said they would restore my title but AZ had to remove it from the NMVTIS.
Seems to me AZ has a problem as your title predates their issue.
And why struggle for the frame ID, you stated you had a VIN clearly visible on the pillar post?
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-‘19-'20-'21-'22-'23-'24
Maddog, another way some guys have confirmed the frame # is by pressing modeling clay over the area and lifting it. Bass ackwards but if the frame and number are clean it can work.
Keep us posted on this. It really bites that some azzole can cause grief for someone who has legally owned the car for that length of time. The NMVTIS can be a good thing, but when somebody's shenanigan in one state takes precedence over a legal owner in another, it's not working how it was intended. A red flag in Texas should be investigated, not dismissed, by Arizona.
I have a very similar story on my 64. Only I had a typo on the title. DMV made an inspection and cleared my title.
Now if you have a Texas title, why did you do this:
Seems to me AZ has a problem as your title predates their issue.
And why struggle for the frame ID, you stated you had a VIN clearly visible on the pillar post?
I have my original Texas title over 50 years. I now reside in Florida and want to re-title here. Fl suggested I ask Texas for a COPY which I did.
If Texas has not caught it in the NMVTIS, Fl would. It is not predates unfortunately, it is the most recent. AZ wants hidden VIN
Maddog, another way some guys have confirmed the frame # is by pressing modeling clay over the area and lifting it. Bass ackwards but if the frame and number are clean it can work.
Keep us posted on this. It really bites that some azzole can cause grief for someone who has legally owned the car for that length of time. The NMVTIS can be a good thing, but when somebody's shenanigan in one state takes precedence over a legal owner in another, it's not working how it was intended. A red flag in Texas should be investigated, not dismissed, by Arizona.
AZ will not discuss the case with me because "it is under investigation".
They would not accept my FL VIN Verification and wanted the hidden VIN. I have the original VIN in place and their car had none. They need to find one...the correct one.
The clay sounds like a possibility but 40 years ago I had the body off and coated the frame pretty good-- primer, paint, undercoat. Not sure exactly where the numbers are.
Top inside of frame rail under the drivers seat. There may be two VIN stamp sets, one further ahead, but still under the drivers floor pan.
Push some wedges in there, and get a mirror and strong light and look. Scrape and look, whatever it takes.
I would imagine the AZ title is "under investigation". Someone with a 1950 Chevy pass car, truck, or wagon, will have some explaining to do, and maybe have his vehicle impounded..
Here is my story....
Doug
A long story about moved/missing VIN tags.
I bought my car in Helena, MT in 1974, it was wrecked in Blackfoot, ID in 1969,and sat in a junkyard in Helena in the intervening years.
During negotiations to buy the car, I noticed the VIN tag was on the door frame, attached with sheet metal screws . I asked the guy who I was buying it from if he thought the car was stolen (I knew the guy, it wasn't like he just rolled into town with 'Vettes for sale cheep). He said he didn't think so, but that steering column had been changed.
No problem, I bought the car, spent 6 months scraping up the money to buy a used engine and transmission for it and got it sort of running. I submitted the old Idaho title to MT DMV, and got registration and plates in 1974. Over the next 5 years, I restored the car to respectable appearance.
Fast forward to CA in 1980. When I went to register it there, I found out they wanted to retrofit it with smog devices, so I said to hell with that and just drove the car on expired MT license plates for 11 years until I found out they had they rescinded the smog retrofit rule some years earlier.
Knowing that I was now safe from smog devices, I went to the Fullerton, CA DMV to register the car in 1991. Going to a CA DMV office is not for the faint of heart, just getting past the gauntlet of Hari-Krishnas milling outside the doors soliciting donations takes the agility of a quarterback, or the brawn of a fullback, coupled with the diplomacy of George Steinbrenner.
After my turn of 40 minutes of waiting in boredom, I get to the counter, and present my Montana title and registration. She looks at it and asks why the registration has been expired for 11 years. I told her the car was in storage in Montana all that time. OK, no problems there, then says she has to inspect the car, and to bring in around front, which I did.
DMV Lady comes out, looks at the car (At that time is was a 97% Concourse show car, in the modified class, in other words, it was spotless inside and out, with 25 coats of nitrocellulose lacquer candy black cherry paint on the body;( I have literally have had several nubile young gals come up to me and ask if they could lick it. Unfortunately they were referring to the paint. ), she looks at the VIN tag and says "wait right here, don't leave" and runs inside. About 30 seconds later three big guys came running out, one with a wire brush in his hand and says: "You, outta the car, NOW, go stand against the wall".
Not quite knowing what was up, I get out and ask them what was wrong?
Sir, this car is probably stolen, the VIN tag has been removed and replaced, go stand against the wall, NOW (two big burly goons had now positioned themselves on either side of me, I think the Hillside Strangler got more assumption of innocence than I was getting at the time). Me: No, the steering column where the VIN tag usually resides has been replaced, so the tag was moved to the door jamb, the state of Montana didn't have a problem with the tag being moved.
So, one guy goes around the front of the car, fumbling under the grill for the hood latch. After watching him look for a latch in the grill area, and even crawl underneath the front of the car trying to figure out how to open the hood, he finally said to me:
"Open the hood, we will check the engine numbers"
So, I open the hood, and guy with the wire brush is all set to brush off inches of expected crud (you could see the gleam in his eye, and he literally was all ready leaning forward over the fender with wire brush in hand as the hood was being opened, ready to corral a dangerous criminal by proving the engine SN didn't match the body VIN), and after the shock of the rear opening hood wears off, he moves to the side of the car and sees a absolutely spotless Concourse engine, and his mouth drops open and he kind of looks back and forth at true spotlessness, with chrome, new paint, neatly arranged plug wires etc.. I then tell him that the engine number is supposed to be right there on the right front side of the block, but it is only a block code, they didn't serialize engines back then, plus I installed a new factory L79 crate engine back in 1976.
Well, now they then go inside, while demanding I still stay at the wall, all but spread eagle, while they go inside and confer, making comments about secret VIN code locations to them selves.
After about 10 minutes they come out, release me from my virtual prison at the wall, and they then tell me they can't register the car until they verify the ID, and that I need to call the CHP for that.
So, next day call the CHP and set up an appointment to go to their division in Orange, CA that does this stuff, and drive down there, and an officer whose name I can’t recall, so I will call him officer Smith, comes out and tells me to drive the car into a bay in the Chippie compound and then go wait in the front office.
I ask why is that?
Officer Smith replies: There are secret places where there are VIN codes on vehicles that we don't want known by the public.
I say, Oh, yeah, the one on this car is located on top of the frame, directly under the drivers seat. His jaw kind of dropped open. So much for their secret. Anyway, he made me go up front so they could confiscate the car if the numbers didn't match.
About 10 minutes later Officer Smith comes up front and tells me he can't read the number and that I was going to have to cut the floor pan out and bring the car back so they could read it.
I Said I ain't cutting the floor pan out. He says then you can't register it in CA until we verify the number; I say, but I am supposed to register it here, I am a Californian resident now; we went back and forth a few times, finally he says register it again in Montana.. I ask isn't that illegal since I now live in CA, he hems and haws and says yes, but, etc, etc.
I then ask him if I can raise the number to be visible, at my house, can he come out and look at it?
Officer Smith says yes he will come out to verify the serial number and gives me his card.
Driving straight home, I jack the car up get out some soapy water water, a scraper and wire brush and clean the top of the frame beneath the drivers seat. I get out a mirror and flash light out and BINGO, you can see the SN, and it matches the title (I was getting kinda worried about then, I wasn't sure if I was going to have to go on the lamb, sort of a Lost Dutchman existence, traveling from state to state, but never being able to register my car).
I promptly called up Officer Smith in case the serial number wanted to migrate or something in the next few hours and tell him I found it, and he comes out pronto in his black and white CHP Mustang, opens the trunk, pulls out and puts on his coveralls, crawls under there, and looks and says, "I can't see the whole number, but I can see the 9141 of the last digits and that is good enough for me".
So I ask him what now?
Officer Smith says bring the car on back and they will assign a new serial number and place a new CA VIN tag (In a real obnoxious place) on the car.
I ask: can't I use my old SN, and place your CA tag right below the Chev tag on the front of the doorjamb? Officer Smith says no, we have to place it where CA says it should be.
Knowing a California assigned VIN would be the Kiss of Death for the car, relegating it to a collectibility status somewhere between Dune Buggy, and Low Rider, I had to think of something.
OK, I had an idea; I went in and wrote a letter to his supervisor telling the supervisor how Officer Smith went out of his way, coming all the way out to my house to help me solve this insurmountable problem, when nobody else would, and how he was a credit to the CHP, etc, etc. I laid it on pretty thick; and took about 2 whole single spaced type written pages to lay it on thick. This letter was so good, that had I copied it to the appropriate people, Officer Smith would have been sleeping in the Lincoln Bedroom, been Knighted by the Queen, and considered for Beatification by the Pope.
The next week, I go down to the Orange, CA CHP station to get my CA tag VIN Cert applied to the car, and Officer Smith, comes out kind of grinning,( obviously his supervisor had shown him the letter I had written and placed it in his file), and says, here, we got your old serial number put on the CA VIN tag, where did you want it installed? OK, under the old one is fine, would you like to install it? Here is the drill and punch.
I declined to install it myself, let him put the tag on, right under the old one, where I pointed out that was where I wanted it..
Then I had to go back to DMV with the certification of VIN.
Going back the second time to that den on incompetence, sullenness and hostility was enough to make me want to find a bridge to jump off of, that seemed less painful. Surly employees, screaming litters of kids be herded by moms that spoke foreign languages, Hari Krishnas (called ISCON now), begging donations at the door; I felt like I was in the bar from Starwars, and wondered why the place couldn’t instead be full of single 20-something babes, waiting for 40 minutes like I was to get their car registered.
Now my number is called and I finally get to the registration counter and the lady asks how much I paid for the car? I said $500, here is the bill of sale. I produce the bill of sale, dated March 16, 1974, written in crayola on a 3" by 5" scrap of paper ( it was all we could find at the time, what can I say).
She looks at it and says, "this car is worth a lot more than that, how much is it worth? I say: I paid $500 for it, there is the bill of sale.
We went back and forth a while, and then she tells me I have to get it appraised before I can register it. I say: I ain't paying for it to be appraised, if you want it appraised, you can hire an appraiser and have him come to my house and appraise it".
I get a dirty look and she gets a supervisor and they start looking through blue books and valuation guides and then get more and more desperate, and are furiously throwing new and old Kelly Blue Books around trying to find a 1961 Corvette in them that just isn't listed, to prove the car is worth lots more so the grand State of California can extort me for more money (This was before the KBB old car guide) , and finally the supervisor asks me how much the car is worth? I tell him: I paid $500 for it, there is the bill of sale, if it has gone up or down, since then, I have no idea, all I know is I paid $500 for it. (Car was appraised shortly after for $35K).
He shakes his head in disgust and tells the gal to put down $500 as the value.
So, my registration in CA was $18 a year, instead of the $1000 a year they were hoping to get.
All over two sheetmetal screws holding the VIN tag on.
bastards. :-)
Post script: After I registered my Corvette in Arizona after my escape from California and permanent move here , the California DMV sent me a letter, to my Arizona address, demanding I reregister the car in California or they were going to seize the vehicle. My written reply was: “Bite Me”. Haven’t heard a thing from them since.
PS: maybe sometime I will relate the story on how the State of Ca, refunded me the sales tax on a Ferrari I bought....
With some work, a fine stiff bristle wire brush, soap, water and degreaser (in no particular order), I was able to make the frame VIN visible on my '61 frame using a mirror and flash light. The state sent someone out to my house to look at the VIN when i was able to make it visible from underneath on jack stands.
You might try that. Do you know where on the frame to look?
Doug
Thanks Doug. No, not sure where to look. I think it is on top of frame somewhere under driver seat. My floor pan sits on rubber pads holding the fiberglass pan around 1/4 " off the frame in that area. I have looked and googled but not found any information where the 3 or 4 hidden VIN are. My visible one is intact and in good shape, but the AZ DMV would not accept a FL VIN verification. They want a hidden VIN verification.
Unreasonable and they are a long distance away. Their car in question has NO visible VIN and they don't seem to be making much progress on the hidden one.
Top inside of frame rail under the drivers seat. There may be two VIN stamp sets, one further ahead, but still under the drivers floor pan.
Push some wedges in there, and get a mirror and strong light and look. Scrape and look, whatever it takes.
I would imagine the AZ title is "under investigation". Someone with a 1950 Chevy pass car, truck, or wagon, will have some explaining to do, and maybe have his vehicle impounded..
Here is my story....
Doug
A long story about moved/missing VIN tags.
I bought my car in Helena, MT in 1974, it was wrecked in Blackfoot, ID in 1969,and sat in a junkyard in Helena in the intervening years.
During negotiations to buy the car, I noticed the VIN tag was on the door frame, attached with sheet metal screws . I asked the guy who I was buying it from if he thought the car was stolen (I knew the guy, it wasn't like he just rolled into town with 'Vettes for sale cheep). He said he didn't think so, but that steering column had been changed.
No problem, I bought the car, spent 6 months scraping up the money to buy a used engine and transmission for it and got it sort of running. I submitted the old Idaho title to MT DMV, and got registration and plates in 1974. Over the next 5 years, I restored the car to respectable appearance.
Fast forward to CA in 1980. When I went to register it there, I found out they wanted to retrofit it with smog devices, so I said to hell with that and just drove the car on expired MT license plates for 11 years until I found out they had they rescinded the smog retrofit rule some years earlier.
Knowing that I was now safe from smog devices, I went to the Fullerton, CA DMV to register the car in 1991. Going to a CA DMV office is not for the faint of heart, just getting past the gauntlet of Hari-Krishnas milling outside the doors soliciting donations takes the agility of a quarterback, or the brawn of a fullback, coupled with the diplomacy of George Steinbrenner.
After my turn of 40 minutes of waiting in boredom, I get to the counter, and present my Montana title and registration. She looks at it and asks why the registration has been expired for 11 years. I told her the car was in storage in Montana all that time. OK, no problems there, then says she has to inspect the car, and to bring in around front, which I did.
DMV Lady comes out, looks at the car (At that time is was a 97% Concourse show car, in the modified class, in other words, it was spotless inside and out, with 25 coats of nitrocellulose lacquer candy black cherry paint on the body;( I have literally have had several nubile young gals come up to me and ask if they could lick it. Unfortunately they were referring to the paint. ), she looks at the VIN tag and says "wait right here, don't leave" and runs inside. About 30 seconds later three big guys came running out, one with a wire brush in his hand and says: "You, outta the car, NOW, go stand against the wall".
Not quite knowing what was up, I get out and ask them what was wrong?
Sir, this car is probably stolen, the VIN tag has been removed and replaced, go stand against the wall, NOW (two big burly goons had now positioned themselves on either side of me, I think the Hillside Strangler got more assumption of innocence than I was getting at the time). Me: No, the steering column where the VIN tag usually resides has been replaced, so the tag was moved to the door jamb, the state of Montana didn't have a problem with the tag being moved.
So, one guy goes around the front of the car, fumbling under the grill for the hood latch. After watching him look for a latch in the grill area, and even crawl underneath the front of the car trying to figure out how to open the hood, he finally said to me:
"Open the hood, we will check the engine numbers"
So, I open the hood, and guy with the wire brush is all set to brush off inches of expected crud (you could see the gleam in his eye, and he literally was all ready leaning forward over the fender with wire brush in hand as the hood was being opened, ready to corral a dangerous criminal by proving the engine SN didn't match the body VIN), and after the shock of the rear opening hood wears off, he moves to the side of the car and sees a absolutely spotless Concourse engine, and his mouth drops open and he kind of looks back and forth at true spotlessness, with chrome, new paint, neatly arranged plug wires etc.. I then tell him that the engine number is supposed to be right there on the right front side of the block, but it is only a block code, they didn't serialize engines back then, plus I installed a new factory L79 crate engine back in 1976.
Well, now they then go inside, while demanding I still stay at the wall, all but spread eagle, while they go inside and confer, making comments about secret VIN code locations to them selves.
After about 10 minutes they come out, release me from my virtual prison at the wall, and they then tell me they can't register the car until they verify the ID, and that I need to call the CHP for that.
So, next day call the CHP and set up an appointment to go to their division in Orange, CA that does this stuff, and drive down there, and an officer whose name I can’t recall, so I will call him officer Smith, comes out and tells me to drive the car into a bay in the Chippie compound and then go wait in the front office.
I ask why is that?
Officer Smith replies: There are secret places where there are VIN codes on vehicles that we don't want known by the public.
I say, Oh, yeah, the one on this car is located on top of the frame, directly under the drivers seat. His jaw kind of dropped open. So much for their secret. Anyway, he made me go up front so they could confiscate the car if the numbers didn't match.
About 10 minutes later Officer Smith comes up front and tells me he can't read the number and that I was going to have to cut the floor pan out and bring the car back so they could read it.
I Said I ain't cutting the floor pan out. He says then you can't register it in CA until we verify the number; I say, but I am supposed to register it here, I am a Californian resident now; we went back and forth a few times, finally he says register it again in Montana.. I ask isn't that illegal since I now live in CA, he hems and haws and says yes, but, etc, etc.
I then ask him if I can raise the number to be visible, at my house, can he come out and look at it?
Officer Smith says yes he will come out to verify the serial number and gives me his card.
Driving straight home, I jack the car up get out some soapy water water, a scraper and wire brush and clean the top of the frame beneath the drivers seat. I get out a mirror and flash light out and BINGO, you can see the SN, and it matches the title (I was getting kinda worried about then, I wasn't sure if I was going to have to go on the lamb, sort of a Lost Dutchman existence, traveling from state to state, but never being able to register my car).
I promptly called up Officer Smith in case the serial number wanted to migrate or something in the next few hours and tell him I found it, and he comes out pronto in his black and white CHP Mustang, opens the trunk, pulls out and puts on his coveralls, crawls under there, and looks and says, "I can't see the whole number, but I can see the 9141 of the last digits and that is good enough for me".
So I ask him what now?
Officer Smith says bring the car on back and they will assign a new serial number and place a new CA VIN tag (In a real obnoxious place) on the car.
I ask: can't I use my old SN, and place your CA tag right below the Chev tag on the front of the doorjamb? Officer Smith says no, we have to place it where CA says it should be.
Knowing a California assigned VIN would be the Kiss of Death for the car, relegating it to a collectibility status somewhere between Dune Buggy, and Low Rider, I had to think of something.
OK, I had an idea; I went in and wrote a letter to his supervisor telling the supervisor how Officer Smith went out of his way, coming all the way out to my house to help me solve this insurmountable problem, when nobody else would, and how he was a credit to the CHP, etc, etc. I laid it on pretty thick; and took about 2 whole single spaced type written pages to lay it on thick. This letter was so good, that had I copied it to the appropriate people, Officer Smith would have been sleeping in the Lincoln Bedroom, been Knighted by the Queen, and considered for Beatification by the Pope.
The next week, I go down to the Orange, CA CHP station to get my CA tag VIN Cert applied to the car, and Officer Smith, comes out kind of grinning,( obviously his supervisor had shown him the letter I had written and placed it in his file), and says, here, we got your old serial number put on the CA VIN tag, where did you want it installed? OK, under the old one is fine, would you like to install it? Here is the drill and punch.
I declined to install it myself, let him put the tag on, right under the old one, where I pointed out that was where I wanted it..
Then I had to go back to DMV with the certification of VIN.
Going back the second time to that den on incompetence, sullenness and hostility was enough to make me want to find a bridge to jump off of, that seemed less painful. Surly employees, screaming litters of kids be herded by moms that spoke foreign languages, Hari Krishnas (called ISCON now), begging donations at the door; I felt like I was in the bar from Starwars, and wondered why the place couldn’t instead be full of single 20-something babes, waiting for 40 minutes like I was to get their car registered.
Now my number is called and I finally get to the registration counter and the lady asks how much I paid for the car? I said $500, here is the bill of sale. I produce the bill of sale, dated March 16, 1974, written in crayola on a 3" by 5" scrap of paper ( it was all we could find at the time, what can I say).
She looks at it and says, "this car is worth a lot more than that, how much is it worth? I say: I paid $500 for it, there is the bill of sale.
We went back and forth a while, and then she tells me I have to get it appraised before I can register it. I say: I ain't paying for it to be appraised, if you want it appraised, you can hire an appraiser and have him come to my house and appraise it".
I get a dirty look and she gets a supervisor and they start looking through blue books and valuation guides and then get more and more desperate, and are furiously throwing new and old Kelly Blue Books around trying to find a 1961 Corvette in them that just isn't listed, to prove the car is worth lots more so the grand State of California can extort me for more money (This was before the KBB old car guide) , and finally the supervisor asks me how much the car is worth? I tell him: I paid $500 for it, there is the bill of sale, if it has gone up or down, since then, I have no idea, all I know is I paid $500 for it. (Car was appraised shortly after for $35K).
He shakes his head in disgust and tells the gal to put down $500 as the value.
So, my registration in CA was $18 a year, instead of the $1000 a year they were hoping to get.
All over two sheetmetal screws holding the VIN tag on.
bastards. :-)
Post script: After I registered my Corvette in Arizona after my escape from California and permanent move here , the California DMV sent me a letter, to my Arizona address, demanding I reregister the car in California or they were going to seize the vehicle. My written reply was: “Bite Me”. Haven’t heard a thing from them since.
PS: maybe sometime I will relate the story on how the State of Ca, refunded me the sales tax on a Ferrari I bought....
Great story Doug. You live close to Mesa or Phoenix?
I have a few similar stories over the years, but I can't top that.
Thanks for the help and assurance I'm not the only one with this experience.
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-‘19-'20-'21-'22-'23-'24
They would not accept my FL VIN Verification and wanted the hidden VIN. I have the original VIN in place and their car had none. They need to find one...the correct one.
Just to be clear, you DO realize the frame number is the same number (from the "S" on) as the VIN, it's not two separate numbers?
Last edited by Railroadman; 03-05-2016 at 08:02 AM.
The 1950 Chevrolet AZ Titled in 2007 was based on a California Title. Obviously AZ DMV issued their title in error. They clearly did not use their reference books showing the vin sequences for a 1959 Corvette. How could they Title a 1950 Chevrolet 2DR, when that model did not exist? Not very smart.
What I don't understand is AZ needing the frame vin. It really has no bearing. They're using general guidelines which do not apply. What if you replaced your frame due to rust? Then it won't have the vin# on it. It would be like changing the engine or the rear axle......a replaceable part.
You need to send them pictures of your car and have them compare it to the AZ car and if they have any competence whatsoever, they should correct this situation and negate the AZ car and clear the database.
These pics may help.
It's stamped in two places on every frame. As you can see by the mirror stuck to the underside of the floor with double-stick tape, it's near the floor plug hole. There is another further to the rear. Using wooden wedges may help give you more room.
Here's another look at the frame #'s on a different car....
Find the location, prop up with some wood blocks, clean frame surface with paint remover, light coat of grease and a dab of bondo. In 10 minutes peel off the bondo and read your vin.
I had an issue on an AZ title a couple months ago...without question, the worst DMV I have ever spoken to.
But I'm totally at a loss, if you have the original TX title, why in the world would Fl ask for a 'copy'? 'Origina'l trumps 'copy' and OLD trumps New [including the AZ stuff]
I had an issue on an AZ title a couple months ago...without question, the worst DMV I have ever spoken to.
But I'm totally at a loss, if you have the original TX title, why in the world would Fl ask for a 'copy'? 'Origina'l trumps 'copy' and OLD trumps New [including the AZ stuff]
Florida and maybe other states, now have policy that the latest/newer Title takes precedence over all previous titles. This is the reason FL would NOT issue his title, as the national database shows a more recent title(AZ). He has not tried to Title in FL yet. If he did, the database would show the more recent AZ title and he would be refused.
As mentioned, this is the flaw in the database usage as bible. They have no idea how to handle it, but they use the newest title as the valid one unless proven otherwise.
The problem also lies in the fact that AZ wants the frame vin. If the restoration included a replacement frame, then the OP would not then be able to satisfy their requirement. I can see why they want it, to help disprove the other AZ title. But it's very complicated.
I'm not saying it's right. It's the main reason the OP is having this problem.
This is also how the Corvette scammers around these days get away with it. They find a way to acquire a new title, whether it be by a DMV "buddy" or some other means, then they use the "law" to say they own the car. Case in point, the 1960 Lemans car that was in Carlisle a few years ago. A FL Title miraculously showed up at the unveiling, acquired a week earlier by a alleged son of a previous owner from about 40 years ago. He, or someone, got a title, obviously through some unusual means.
03-04-2016, 09:13 PM
C1 VIN problems
