Future of the NCRS.......
03-27-2016, 12:26 PM
#201
[QUOTE=Nowhere Man;1591865540]NCRS has no say on values. if that's the case there would be hundreds of late low mile shark cars and C4 commanding high dollars. prices are set by supply and demand. you must have flunked economics class. most of the well built resto mods are selling for more then top flight cars and NCRS has nothing to do with the resto mod crowd. can you explain that?
this has nothing to do with my posting why the NCRS was not allowing proven changes in the judging manuals. the resto mods are one of one not one of 10s thousands that were built that is why they bring more $$$$.
this has nothing to do with my posting why the NCRS was not allowing proven changes in the judging manuals. the resto mods are one of one not one of 10s thousands that were built that is why they bring more $$$$.
Last edited by PAmotorman; 03-27-2016 at 12:28 PM.
03-27-2016, 12:40 PM
#203
Race Director
03-27-2016, 01:17 PM
#204
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jan 2009
Location: High Mountains of New Mexico
Posts: 3,267
Received 1,391 Likes
on
683 Posts
2023 C2 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2021 C2 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2015 C3 of the Year Finalist
03-27-2016, 01:18 PM
#205
Race Director
The NCRS is going to die a slow death. The NCRS National Convention continues to be a secret where they could use that to grow membership. I'm part of the younger crowd they should be getting enthused about the NCRS and the correctness of the cars. While neat I have no need for a TF car. I hope they get it worked out and agree that if the Corvette would better organize itself we would see a much better representation of our Hobby.
Hitch
Hitch
03-27-2016, 02:08 PM
#206
Team Owner
Member Since: Feb 2003
Location: Sitting in his Nowhere land Hanover Pa
Posts: 49,002
Received 6,942 Likes
on
4,781 Posts
2015 C2 of Year Finalist
Actually, I have to admit I have several times been very critical of the Mustang Club of America and Shelby American Auto Club judging and meets. I told them there was a much better way to do it and to role model NCRS, the best, most organized group for meets and judging in the country. I was not well received, but I like to speak truth to power.
03-28-2016, 10:24 AM
#207
Pro
There in lies a big problem. Much of the collector car market is people either re-buying a car of their youth or the car they wanted in their youth but couldn't afford. The demand for cars drops off when that generation is dead. That's why the price of cars of the 30's hasn't kept up with inflation.
On top of that, while I would like a 1930's Ford (just because it's old and different), I could care less if it was just like it rolled off the assembly line. I would want to drive it occasionally and, if the chassis got a little dirty or the muffler wasn't factory original, so what. Thirty years from now, many of the people that might be interested in an old Corvette, probably aren't going to be as concerned about factory correctness as some are now.
On top of that, while I would like a 1930's Ford (just because it's old and different), I could care less if it was just like it rolled off the assembly line. I would want to drive it occasionally and, if the chassis got a little dirty or the muffler wasn't factory original, so what. Thirty years from now, many of the people that might be interested in an old Corvette, probably aren't going to be as concerned about factory correctness as some are now.
[QUOTE=scopeli;1591863395]
Some of the people making comments about what the value of C1's, C2's and C3's should be are forgetting that a large percentage no longer exist. It's not just inflation, it's rarity too. And, of course, that factors into supply and demand.
I disagree. a large percentage of every year corvette still exist. by 1956 people began to really take notice of the cars. a lower percentage of corvettes hit the crusher than probably any other American car with decent production numbers. if there is a a large number of corvettes that were destroyed it would be the late 70's C3s and the early C4s.
I disagree. a large percentage of every year corvette still exist. by 1956 people began to really take notice of the cars. a lower percentage of corvettes hit the crusher than probably any other American car with decent production numbers. if there is a a large number of corvettes that were destroyed it would be the late 70's C3s and the early C4s.
03-28-2016, 11:11 AM
#208
Le Mans Master
There is not scarcity of cars, these things are mass produced by sports car terms and if there were roughly 125k made in 5 years, even half of them still around is a LOT. In the last 30 years more and more are being returned to the road- even more supply.
People my age and younger who appreciate them and make comments about wanting one are just admiring them in passing. Precious few of us in our 30's love them enough to pay the price of ownership versus everything else that contends for our discretionary dollars. Late model road rockets, boats, trips, electronics etc.
I love my car, I don't care what happens to its monetary value. As emotional as I am about it, I can say pragmatically there aren't enough of us younger ones to sustain these prices into the future when adjusted for inflation. I've said this many times.
Everyone wants what's important to them to be important to the next generation. It just doesn't work that way across the board. Why we get hung up on this is human nature- the nature of our mortality if you will.
Supply is high, demand will dwindle. I was born in '80 and came home from the hospital in a '40 Ford, and learned to drive a stick shift in the last Flathead. Buying either one of these is not a likely consideration for me even though I appreciate them - unless they were CHEAP. And if I'm not a buyer for them in 20 years, very few others will be either.
I encourage you all to drive you cars, enjoy the thrills, and don't worry about the future.
People my age and younger who appreciate them and make comments about wanting one are just admiring them in passing. Precious few of us in our 30's love them enough to pay the price of ownership versus everything else that contends for our discretionary dollars. Late model road rockets, boats, trips, electronics etc.
I love my car, I don't care what happens to its monetary value. As emotional as I am about it, I can say pragmatically there aren't enough of us younger ones to sustain these prices into the future when adjusted for inflation. I've said this many times.
Everyone wants what's important to them to be important to the next generation. It just doesn't work that way across the board. Why we get hung up on this is human nature- the nature of our mortality if you will.
Supply is high, demand will dwindle. I was born in '80 and came home from the hospital in a '40 Ford, and learned to drive a stick shift in the last Flathead. Buying either one of these is not a likely consideration for me even though I appreciate them - unless they were CHEAP. And if I'm not a buyer for them in 20 years, very few others will be either.
I encourage you all to drive you cars, enjoy the thrills, and don't worry about the future.
03-28-2016, 11:15 AM
#209
Team Owner
Member Since: Mar 2003
Location: Greenville, Indiana
Posts: 26,118
Received 1,843 Likes
on
1,398 Posts
Seems everytime you turn a corner in this thread the subject of "money" comes up.
Is this a hobby or a business or an ego trip?
Is this a hobby or a business or an ego trip?
Last edited by MikeM; 03-28-2016 at 11:17 AM.
03-28-2016, 11:31 AM
#210
Le Mans Master
There is not scarcity of cars, these things are mass produced by sports car terms and if there were roughly 125k made in 5 years, even half of them still around is a LOT. In the last 30 years more and more are being returned to the road- even more supply.
People my age and younger who appreciate them and make comments about wanting one are just admiring them in passing. Precious few of us in our 30's love them enough to pay the price of ownership versus everything else that contends for our discretionary dollars. Late model road rockets, boats, trips, electronics etc.
I love my car, I don't care what happens to its monetary value. As emotional as I am about it, I can say pragmatically there aren't enough of us younger ones to sustain these prices into the future when adjusted for inflation. I've said this many times.
Everyone wants what's important to them to be important to the next generation. It just doesn't work that way across the board. Why we get hung up on this is human nature- the nature of our mortality if you will.
Supply is high, demand will dwindle. I was born in '80 and came home from the hospital in a '40 Ford, and learned to drive a stick shift in the last Flathead. Buying either one of these is not a likely consideration for me even though I appreciate them - unless they were CHEAP. And if I'm not a buyer for them in 20 years, very few others will be either.
I encourage you all to drive you cars, enjoy the thrills, and don't worry about the future.
People my age and younger who appreciate them and make comments about wanting one are just admiring them in passing. Precious few of us in our 30's love them enough to pay the price of ownership versus everything else that contends for our discretionary dollars. Late model road rockets, boats, trips, electronics etc.
I love my car, I don't care what happens to its monetary value. As emotional as I am about it, I can say pragmatically there aren't enough of us younger ones to sustain these prices into the future when adjusted for inflation. I've said this many times.
Everyone wants what's important to them to be important to the next generation. It just doesn't work that way across the board. Why we get hung up on this is human nature- the nature of our mortality if you will.
Supply is high, demand will dwindle. I was born in '80 and came home from the hospital in a '40 Ford, and learned to drive a stick shift in the last Flathead. Buying either one of these is not a likely consideration for me even though I appreciate them - unless they were CHEAP. And if I'm not a buyer for them in 20 years, very few others will be either.
I encourage you all to drive you cars, enjoy the thrills, and don't worry about the future.
03-28-2016, 11:37 AM
#211
Team Owner
There is not scarcity of cars, these things are mass produced by sports car terms and if there were roughly 125k made in 5 years, even half of them still around is a LOT. In the last 30 years more and more are being returned to the road- even more supply.
People my age and younger who appreciate them and make comments about wanting one are just admiring them in passing. Precious few of us in our 30's love them enough to pay the price of ownership versus everything else that contends for our discretionary dollars. Late model road rockets, boats, trips, electronics etc.
I love my car, I don't care what happens to its monetary value. As emotional as I am about it, I can say pragmatically there aren't enough of us younger ones to sustain these prices into the future when adjusted for inflation. I've said this many times.
Everyone wants what's important to them to be important to the next generation. It just doesn't work that way across the board. Why we get hung up on this is human nature- the nature of our mortality if you will.
Supply is high, demand will dwindle. I was born in '80 and came home from the hospital in a '40 Ford, and learned to drive a stick shift in the last Flathead. Buying either one of these is not a likely consideration for me even though I appreciate them - unless they were CHEAP. And if I'm not a buyer for them in 20 years, very few others will be either.
I encourage you all to drive you cars, enjoy the thrills, and don't worry about the future.
People my age and younger who appreciate them and make comments about wanting one are just admiring them in passing. Precious few of us in our 30's love them enough to pay the price of ownership versus everything else that contends for our discretionary dollars. Late model road rockets, boats, trips, electronics etc.
I love my car, I don't care what happens to its monetary value. As emotional as I am about it, I can say pragmatically there aren't enough of us younger ones to sustain these prices into the future when adjusted for inflation. I've said this many times.
Everyone wants what's important to them to be important to the next generation. It just doesn't work that way across the board. Why we get hung up on this is human nature- the nature of our mortality if you will.
Supply is high, demand will dwindle. I was born in '80 and came home from the hospital in a '40 Ford, and learned to drive a stick shift in the last Flathead. Buying either one of these is not a likely consideration for me even though I appreciate them - unless they were CHEAP. And if I'm not a buyer for them in 20 years, very few others will be either.
I encourage you all to drive you cars, enjoy the thrills, and don't worry about the future.
Regrettably, I think the restomod market will blossom for well-to-do young professionals. I'm talking the well done versions with aftermarket frame, LSx, killer stereos and boutique interiors, show chrome and miles-deep paint jobs.
You get a car that's got it all, modern guts, incredible styling and appeal and a fraction of the price of a pasta rocket
03-28-2016, 11:45 AM
#212
Team Owner
They were excited about having a standard they could possibly leverage. I didn't go into all the flaws in the JG for that year car but some of it came to light regardless.
The issue is not pretty documents but the grunt work to get a decent judging baseline IMO. Starting out now trying to document factory originality with all the "day-10,000" cars modified over the years is tough.
03-28-2016, 12:00 PM
#213
Le Mans Master
I agree for the most part -- but I'd say the number of high-quality, largely original cars is not that big a number; particularly in the most wanted ones, BB '67s, split windows, etc.. I can't even tell you all the junk I looked at before I got my C2.
Regrettably, I think the restomod market will blossom for well-to-do young professionals. I'm talking the well done versions with aftermarket frame, LSx, killer stereos and boutique interiors, show chrome and miles-deep paint jobs.
You get a car that's got it all, modern guts, incredible styling and appeal and a fraction of the price of a pasta rocket
Regrettably, I think the restomod market will blossom for well-to-do young professionals. I'm talking the well done versions with aftermarket frame, LSx, killer stereos and boutique interiors, show chrome and miles-deep paint jobs.
You get a car that's got it all, modern guts, incredible styling and appeal and a fraction of the price of a pasta rocket
Benton
03-28-2016, 12:01 PM
#214
Race Director
Member Since: Apr 1999
Location: Beverly Hills/Pine Ridge Florida
Posts: 10,733
Received 561 Likes
on
349 Posts
The NCRS National Convention continues to be a secret where they could use that to grow membership.
I'm part of the younger crowd they should be getting enthused about the NCRS and the correctness of the cars. While neat I have no need for a TF car. I hope they get it worked out and agree that if the Corvette would better organize itself we would see a much better representation of our Hobby.
Hitch
Info about the national convention has been out for over a year.
https://www.ncrs.org/convention/schedule.pdf
03-28-2016, 12:16 PM
#215
Race Director
Member Since: Apr 1999
Location: Beverly Hills/Pine Ridge Florida
Posts: 10,733
Received 561 Likes
on
349 Posts
2017 in San Antonio, TX.
http://www.ncrstexas.org/
2018 is in the planning stages for Spokane, Washington.
http://www.ncrstexas.org/
2018 is in the planning stages for Spokane, Washington.
03-28-2016, 12:47 PM
#216
Team Owner
And contrary to some thinly-disguised allegations I'm not an NCRS hater (#48322 in good standing -- well maybe not so much lately). I've also spent a couple of months electric bills on their documentation, apparel and other goods. Have done some assistant judging and attended every Florida regional since 2008....a huge number of friends active in the NCRS. I enjoyed having my split window judged even with the flaws in the process. As often stated my car is better for having been judged - I fixed a lot of nits that were found.
I was a member of the Sunshine State Solid Axle Club for years as well. Years before that in the MCA when I did Mustangs.
The NCRS assiduously avoids discussions of their awards in relation to car values (which they are correct in doing). But, let's face it a TF car will bring more money (if left in the condition in which it was judged) just by virtue of the fact it met a standard (even if the standard is wanting in some respects)... As a counterpoint, its interesting that original cars are bringing 1/2 the price of well done restomods... I think that's a bellweather and the monetary and even intangible value of a flight award will just become less and less except for maybe museums and vintage racing events participants.
EVEN IF THE NCRS GOES ANOTHER 20 YEARS the upcoming generations will have self-driving cars running on sunbeams and pig farts so they can commute while Facebooking about their latest heartbreak or watching cat videos on youtube while they puff on "medical" marijuana. With their spaghetti noodle arms and legs from lack of exercise and squinty eyes from hours of video games and drug-induced stupor they aren't gonna be driving some manual transmission, no power option muscle car.
That's coming at us like a freight train. What the older Corvettes have going for them is timeless styling - that's it. Tesla's and ricers will beat the average vintage Corvette's brains in, head-to-head or on a road course. The interval between the decline in public desirability of original cars and self-guidied commuting capsules is the restomod. There is prob a 10-15 year window for restomods before owner-driven cars are outlawed or you need a permit from President Chelsea Clinton to drive one (I know -- gag). The legal liabilities will be frightful. Frankly, personal car ownership is ending...you need to go somewhere - you'll call up an Amazon app on your smartphone to order a driverless vehicle to your door, swipe your chip debit card and be carried to where you want to go...
10 year ago, or even 3 years ago I wouldn't even consider restomodding my original, dual quad '61....now I think about it a couple of times a week. Even got a green light from wifey to go for it; not to mention my good friend and top restomodder is a short drive away.
There I go - I just thought about it again - dammit
I was a member of the Sunshine State Solid Axle Club for years as well. Years before that in the MCA when I did Mustangs.
The NCRS assiduously avoids discussions of their awards in relation to car values (which they are correct in doing). But, let's face it a TF car will bring more money (if left in the condition in which it was judged) just by virtue of the fact it met a standard (even if the standard is wanting in some respects)... As a counterpoint, its interesting that original cars are bringing 1/2 the price of well done restomods... I think that's a bellweather and the monetary and even intangible value of a flight award will just become less and less except for maybe museums and vintage racing events participants.
EVEN IF THE NCRS GOES ANOTHER 20 YEARS the upcoming generations will have self-driving cars running on sunbeams and pig farts so they can commute while Facebooking about their latest heartbreak or watching cat videos on youtube while they puff on "medical" marijuana. With their spaghetti noodle arms and legs from lack of exercise and squinty eyes from hours of video games and drug-induced stupor they aren't gonna be driving some manual transmission, no power option muscle car.
That's coming at us like a freight train. What the older Corvettes have going for them is timeless styling - that's it. Tesla's and ricers will beat the average vintage Corvette's brains in, head-to-head or on a road course. The interval between the decline in public desirability of original cars and self-guidied commuting capsules is the restomod. There is prob a 10-15 year window for restomods before owner-driven cars are outlawed or you need a permit from President Chelsea Clinton to drive one (I know -- gag). The legal liabilities will be frightful. Frankly, personal car ownership is ending...you need to go somewhere - you'll call up an Amazon app on your smartphone to order a driverless vehicle to your door, swipe your chip debit card and be carried to where you want to go...
10 year ago, or even 3 years ago I wouldn't even consider restomodding my original, dual quad '61....now I think about it a couple of times a week. Even got a green light from wifey to go for it; not to mention my good friend and top restomodder is a short drive away.
There I go - I just thought about it again - dammit
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; 03-28-2016 at 01:10 PM.
03-28-2016, 05:27 PM
#217
Administrator
Member Since: Jul 2000
Location: About 1100 miles from where I call home. Blue lives matter.
Posts: 51,393
Received 5,323 Likes
on
2,772 Posts
It's lasted 11 pages guys. Let's stay on topic.
(NOTE: this is in reference to recently removed posts.... nothing thats still up)
(NOTE: this is in reference to recently removed posts.... nothing thats still up)
Last edited by vettebuyer6369; 03-28-2016 at 05:31 PM.
03-28-2016, 05:41 PM
#218
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jan 2009
Location: High Mountains of New Mexico
Posts: 3,267
Received 1,391 Likes
on
683 Posts
2023 C2 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2021 C2 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2015 C3 of the Year Finalist
2017 in San Antonio, TX.
http://www.ncrstexas.org/
2018 is in the planning stages for Spokane, Washington.
http://www.ncrstexas.org/
2018 is in the planning stages for Spokane, Washington.
03-28-2016, 05:52 PM
#219
Safety Car
The thing with those high quality restmods... it can take $150K to make a car that sells for $125 at auction...
We see the $125K on TV, and think, "Holy Cow! Resto-mods are bringing the big money!" What we don't see is the guy spending $40K on his project car, then pumping another $100-150K into it.
We see the $125K on TV, and think, "Holy Cow! Resto-mods are bringing the big money!" What we don't see is the guy spending $40K on his project car, then pumping another $100-150K into it.
Last edited by Revfan; 03-29-2016 at 01:24 AM.
03-28-2016, 05:54 PM
#220
Race Director
Member Since: Apr 1999
Location: Beverly Hills/Pine Ridge Florida
Posts: 10,733
Received 561 Likes
on
349 Posts
East Coast, "Mid Country" and West Coast.
In a purely "up and down" matrix.....................
"East" can be anywhere from Maine to Florida.
"Mid Country" can be anywhere from Windsor, Ontario to Texas.
"West" can be anywhere from Washington State to So Cal.
Of course, you have some latitude in the sites......
Last year was in Denver. Now we move back East to RI.
Next year (2017) San Antonio.
Not sure if 2018 is set in stone yet for Spokane....
Keeps everyone happy since they are spread out.
Chuck