Nowhere Man

must be a very juicy thread on the Vette heads web site where you have to pay to join in

Frankie the Fink

I hope it turns out to just legitimate issues with balancing the books and not some nefarious shenanigans by staffers. The hobby sure doesn't need a scandal on top of everything else.

sidepipe seeker

WOW!!!...I renewed my NCRS on the 15th of March 2016 & spoke WITH Gary on the phone...had a GREAT conversation as Gary truly has an IMPRESSIVE COLLECTION of Corvettes & if I remember correctly "2" Split Window "fuelies!!!".

Was NOT aware of the situation whilst I was talking with Gary....WISH HIM THE BEST!!!

PAmotorman

. Took a car club and turned it into a corporation=doom....

there is no way to increase someone's wealth in a car club as i have belonged to one since 1960 and some members had to put their own money into it to keep it going.

65hihp

Hope you'll come out to the No CAL Chapter meet at Suisun City on 4/16 and see why everyone is raving about NCRS!! Drive your new mid-year. You'll have a wonderful time and make many new friends in the hobby.

sidepipe seeker

Appreciate the heads up in regards to the Suisun City car show

Haven acquired my C2 as of yet, they say that "patient is a virtue"...I DON'T want a "virtue"...I WANT MY C2 Coupe!!!...Mark

project63

There is a copy of the NCRS financial records published in the Corvette Restorer mag every year. I don't think anyone said the Mortimers were leaving the NCRS. Eric only resigned his paid position. Maybe he found a better gig elsewhere.

tc

Don Rickles

See post #4 this was quoted from the NCRS site. You're not quite up to date......

To add, those financial reports are incomplete. You will not find a list of how much each paid position receives as an example, IIRC?

sidepipe seeker

Would hardly consider the NCRS as just a "car club".

Few judgings ratings have as much or more prestige or are as coveted & related value/s increases as a NCRS judged car/s.

NCRS National Top Flight Award is beyond reproach, enough said!...Mark

cardo0

FYI, NFL commissioner Rodger Goodall took the NFL out of "Non-Profit" status last year because the NFL had to reveal his $40 million/year wages to the public as a non-profit organization. Now the NFL will no longer have to report employee wages as a "For-Profit" organization. BTW the NFL has $10 billion/year in revenue.

U can google this for your self. Sorry i couldnt resist.

Chuck Gongloff

FYI, the cost for the award verification is $300.00 per car.

Frankie the Fink

Hardly 'beyond reproach' in a sales venue. Many a TF car has had the rare parts swapped out and sold off separately for big $$$ prior to a car going to auction...

Even driven cars have that done; my regional Second Flight split window now sports its radial tires, halogen headlights, etc.. for street driving. That is one reason why the Judging Reference guide is so explicit in separating the awards given from the car's valuation...they aren't playing that game (and shouldn't).

rfn026

The world is not coming to an end. I remember when Noland Adams left NCRS and formed the Straight Axle club. Everyone thought that was the end of the NCRS. Wrong.

I've know Gary and Eric for a long time. They're good people.

Hey - I still miss John Amgwert.

Richard Newton
Car Tech Stuff

Frankie the Fink

The outfit needs to start looking forward instead of backward. The new judging class is a good move if it takes off; we'll see... In my admittedly brief sojourn through the 63 judging process it was very apparent the whole venue needs a serious housecleaning.
Documentation and leadership mostly.

Most of my career was as a 'turn around artist' for troubled IT companies and gov't agencies technology organizations. Always the drumbeat was, so-and-so works so hard and puts in sooo many hours and is sooo dedicated. My response is always, "....don't confuse effort with results". Volunteers or paid staffers, longevity and prolific hours on the job mean little if you're doing the 'right things the wrong way'.

There was recent NCRS posts about how great the Judging Retreat was and the many benefits of one of the team leader's 'role playing' as a car owner. If the time had been spent on correcting dozens of JG errors for that year's car it would have been more productive.

Learning to 'handle' car owners based on blatantly inaccurate documentation is not all that laudable IMO.

If I were one of the founders and had any IQ points I would also have realized it is a good time to depart. Prob best left at that.

Don Rickles

For us commoners, yes. I would think that BJ and the NCRS might have struck a deal for somewhat less per vehicle, but pure conjecture...

fyreline

Well, here's my take on it. An organization such as the NCRS needs to exist, so that a definitive, authoritative voice can be presented on what is or is not correct for Corvettes as they left the factory. Someone has to do this, even though it may not matter to a lot of Corvette enthusiasts whose interests lie in other directions. While it is not always the case, the vast majority of the time when criticisms are leveled against the NCRS, it is from these individuals who do not hold the same interests in originality and correctness as the club does. And that's fine, they are entitled to their opinions . . . but for me, the complaints of these folks bear little if any weight. If you don't like what the NCRS stands for, why belong? Now, are there going to be issues and problems in any organization like the NCRS? Of course. Just the sheer numbers - both in membership and in the dollars involved in the cars - would tell you that. Add in the usual amounts of ego and one-upsmanship that any collector car organization seems to bring out, and there you go.

This will mainly work itself out, and it's easy to just toss off the criticsism as "Haters gonna hate". . . But I also think it's incumbent upon the members of the NCRS (including myself) to pull together and fix whatever is wrong. If we want to hold ourselves up as an authoritative, knowledgeable and worthwhile organization we can do no less.

Chuck Gongloff

I would agree with you.

How many Corvettes went through BJ? I don't know.

AND, how many of those Corvettes had/needed the award verification service?

Let's say NCRS cut a deal for $200. per car. If they did 100 cars, we're talking about $20,000.

IMHO, that's a drop in the bucket to an organization that probably gets ~$600,000 per year in dues alone, plus probably much more than that from the sale of clothing, manuals, memorabilia, and accessories.

The one item that nobody has brought up is the fact that the Mortimer's home in Cincinnati was the NCRS office. Just about everything was run from that venue. Not sure what will be done now.

gbvette62

I've never paid attention to the "club's" financial disclosure, when it's printed in the Restorer, so I don't know what their overhead is. It's easy to look at all the money they're collecting from dues, fees, and sales of merchandise, etc, but what are their expenses? I'm sure they have salaries, insurance, taxes, healthcare, hotels and travel for attending Regionals and the convention, printing, plus there's all the other little expenses, that people don't think about.

I bet a large portion of the dues they collect, are eaten up just in the cost of printing and the postage, for the Driveline and Restorer.

I don't know what Gary made, and I don't really care. He had been there 40 years, and wore a lot of different hats, and personally I think he deserved to be paid well.

As a business owner, I can attest to the fact that it's been tough for any small business or organization, to stay profitable the last 7-8 years.

From my understanding of the $300 verification fee, it's strictly optional.

If a potential buyer wants to verify that a car being sold, has received the awards the seller's claiming it has, they can pay the NCRS $300, to confirm the sellers claims. It has nothing to do with Barrett-Jackson, other than that they're probably charging the NCRS $3000, for a vendor space.

BJ has no involvement with the verification fee. BJ doesn't certify any claims being made about a car they're selling. Any claims they make about a car's awards, history, restoration, rarity, etc, are coming from the owner/seller, and BJ takes no responsibility for those claims.

Nobody has to pay the verification fee. If you trust the seller, and/or his documentation, there is no reason to go to the NCRS and pay the $300. But, if you want to be sure that a seller's claim that a car has received a Flight, Duntov or Bow Tie award, you can pay the NCRS the $300, and they will pull the info from their records.

65hihp

What a remarkable forum this is where uninformed imbeciles (like me) can come any time and read the life stories, over and over again of experts. Experts willing to share, over and over again, their vast experiences in the corporate world and government agencies, as technology experts who save one company after another from failing due to stupidity. And find out that such experts, having attended one or two judging meets in a 42 year old car club they have been a member of for at least a year and a half have identified the true problems with that organization and are willing to share that information here, on this forum, with all of us oblivious buffoons. What a relief to know that the problems are identified, and help is on the way. It's great to know that the future of NCRS, the finest club in the world dedicated to preservation and restoration of one model car, is secure. I feel so much smarter and I am very thankful.

GTOguy

I really appreciate all I've learned from your posts, 65hihp. Very informative to a newbie like myself, with goals I can aspire to, as well.