How hard is the steering in your 63
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
How hard is the steering in your 63
This is the first C2 car I've own and the steering seems to take a bit of effort to turn when car is stop, backing up, turning wheel and such. I went through the steering box and put in new grease/oil and seals. In adjusting box, there seems to be only one adjustment once the endplay of the shaft is taking out, and that's the top screw. If I turn top screw to where the steering is a little easier, there is play in the steering. Turn screw other way, get rid of play but harder to steer. The damper cylinder appears to be new. Maybe that's just the way they are.
#2
Team Owner
Need to fix/beef up your "arm strong"...
The damper/shock it just that and has nothing to do with how hard it turns...
The damper/shock it just that and has nothing to do with how hard it turns...
#3
Team Owner
My steering in the stock 63 is not onerous but the car has gotten a little 'wander' to it lately - prob time for a steering box rebuild. I assume you have stock sized tires on your car - right ?
#4
Melting Slicks
There are two holes for the tie rods to attach. If you have conventional steering, the steering would be easier if the end holes are utilized rather than the inner ones. the change would require the front end to be realigned.
#5
Melting Slicks
I have factory power-steering in my 63 and its fine-not hard or loose.
#6
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C2 of the Year Finalist - Modified 2020
Tire type and pressure may also play a part in this. Dennis
#7
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That said, my '63 is very hard to turn at very low speed. There's no play in the wheel, it tracks extremely well on the highway and drives like a dream. I has radial tires 205's. The guy I bought it from was a tinkering nut and also ran a service dept. at a Mercedes dealer. Be my guess he has dialed in extra caster to make it track better. Don't know, I've never had it checked and probably won't as long as the tires continue to wear evenly.
My '65 steers very easy at low speeds. Low steering wheel effort. No play in the steering. Front end has never been aligned and still has all original front end components. Runs down the road very straight considering the bias tires that are on it. They might be Kelsey's. 7.75's.
#8
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Bias plys will steer easier that radials at low or no speed. Inflation and tire width are huge factors, as is the car being at a dead standstill or moving just a tiny bit. Increased caster settings will make steering at low speed a real bear. My '61 steers easily at very low speed, not so much at a standstill. I have old bias ply 6.70 15's on it now, but plan on getting a second set of mag wheels (old Americans) and running radials as all around running gear.
#9
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Maybe I should add that before I put the bias ply tires on the '65 I had fiberglass belted radials on the can and it steered easy as well. Tire size was E78 X 15 but I figured after about 30 years, it was time to replace them. They still steered good when I took them off.
#11
Race Director
This is the first C2 car I've own and the steering seems to take a bit of effort to turn when car is stop, backing up, turning wheel and such. I went through the steering box and put in new grease/oil and seals. In adjusting box, there seems to be only one adjustment once the endplay of the shaft is taking out, and that's the top screw. If I turn top screw to where the steering is a little easier, there is play in the steering. Turn screw other way, get rid of play but harder to steer. The damper cylinder appears to be new. Maybe that's just the way they are.
#12
Safety Car
Thread Starter
I have an all stock car with 17" bias tires and original steering wheel.
#13
Le Mans Master
That said, my '63 is very hard to turn at very low speed. There's no play in the wheel, it tracks extremely well on the highway and drives like a dream. I has radial tires 205's. The guy I bought it from was a tinkering nut and also ran a service dept. at a Mercedes dealer. Be my guess he has dialed in extra caster to make it track better. Don't know, I've never had it checked and probably won't as long as the tires continue to wear evenly.
My '65 steers very easy at low speeds. Low steering wheel effort. No play in the steering. Front end has never been aligned and still has all original front end components. Runs down the road very straight considering the bias tires that are on it. They might be Kelsey's. 7.75's.
My '65 steers very easy at low speeds. Low steering wheel effort. No play in the steering. Front end has never been aligned and still has all original front end components. Runs down the road very straight considering the bias tires that are on it. They might be Kelsey's. 7.75's.
#14
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Caster is everything.
The manual steering box is difficult with the factory 0.5 degree caster setting, with the tie rod ends in the outer holes that provide more leverage, and with the factory steering wheel. You need to be rolling to reduce the effort.
Change caster to more modern settings, or move the tie rod ends to the inner power steering holes, or fit a smaller steering wheel, and you increase the effort.
Increased caster is great for improved handling and more stability. The caster and toe-in alignment settings are critical to a good steering feel and ease with the manual steering box. The best for each driver is a compromise between steering effort and stability.
I personally liked the inner, harder effort, steering holes and 1.5 degree caster when I had a manual steering box. I put up with the difficult low speed steering wheel effort because the car handled much better at speed.
I changed to a Borgeson power steering box, a much smaller 14 inch steering wheel, and 2.5 degree caster to make the car handle better than I could have ever imagined. If you want modern car handling and feel, with light effort parking manners, a tight suspension and this steering upgrade will deliver.
#15
In post #5 you reference a power steering car, is this the car you are working on. If it is, keep in mind P/S is power assist only and the pump and cylinder will strain if the car is stationary, it's not like today's P/S systems.
Proper steering box adjustment is done with a in lb torque wrench and it's value is approx 10-15 inlbs while turning through the high point.
There should be no play at the high point (straight ahead) and the turning effort should feel snug turning through the center then get loose as the gears move to the ends. This gives the return to center when you go around a corner but at straight ahead the wheel will feel slightly snug if that's the right word to use and will have no play.
Proper steering box adjustment is done with a in lb torque wrench and it's value is approx 10-15 inlbs while turning through the high point.
There should be no play at the high point (straight ahead) and the turning effort should feel snug turning through the center then get loose as the gears move to the ends. This gives the return to center when you go around a corner but at straight ahead the wheel will feel slightly snug if that's the right word to use and will have no play.
#16
Melting Slicks
What would this accomplish, Less force to turn wheel but require more turns of steering wheel to turn car. Unless I've over looked it I can find no mention of the change of tie rod holes in the 63 shop manual.
I have an all stock car with 17" bias tires and original steering wheel.
I have an all stock car with 17" bias tires and original steering wheel.
#17
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Found one problem
I think I've found part of my problem. As you see in the picture the inner hole for tie rod is used and not the outer. I know if I change to outer I will have to have a new alignment. I wonder if it will make a noticeable difference.
#20
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Don't be surprised if you toe-in isn't still in spec.
Somebody with a slide rule calculated where to stick that other set of holes.
Somebody with a slide rule calculated where to stick that other set of holes.
Last edited by MikeM; 03-29-2016 at 07:00 PM.