My addiction

I was always taught no question is a dumb question : ) That being said how much does having a CE warranty replacement block from back in the day effect the resale value of the car today? Referring to a big block if it makes a difference.

DansYellow66

Basically the same as a NOM to most I suspect. But if there were documentation that the motor was replaced in kind with the original and is otherwise stock, I would value it a bit higher than something with a completely non-stock type engine. These things did get driven hard and things went wrong as a result.

Nowhere Man

The CE program didn't start until 68. So only 67 could have had a CE block if replaced under warranty. But like Dan said at the end of the day it's just a NOM.

MikeM

Just restamp it like the rest of the wannabe's!

Some sucker will pay extra just to let someone get in his shorts.

Sky65

CE blocks are not just warranty replacements. I have a 350/350 CE block in my 65. It was an OTC short block purchased and installed by the previous owner.

Tom

MikeM

No, they weren't just warranty replacements but that was the intent. After the 5/50 ran out, GM was stuck with many CE engines, short blocks and they had a fire sale on them just to unload them at bargain prices.

409/409

Why couldn't a '66 with a 3 year warranty have a '68 CE block???

pop23235

I have a CE block I bought in ~74. Has yet to be started. I look at it as I have a new short block that is virtually brand new, standard bore. A "numbers matching" engine is used. That number doesn't make it run any better, nor is it really worth more $. It's just a game. I will have non original paint, seat covers, carpet, tires, brakes, etc. So what's the deal with a block? I'm not unaware of the game being played, so don't even try to flame. It's the same old "I've got what you don't", not mine is better than yours! It's nice to have originality as things work as designed, but really.

My addiction

Perfect! Just learned a little more as I didn't realize the program started until 68. Thanks for that!

My addiction

Thanks Dan

You could put these posts of mine to an end by just selling me your car

DansYellow66

My car is in nice condition and pretty rowdy but it's kind of a mutt. Keep looking - you will find what you're looking for.

Mr D.

Been following your threads about being on the hunt for a BB Mid Year. You are correct no question is a dumb question when it comes to these cars. We have all been where you are at some point in our life.

I recommend that you buy the following books;

Out of Print, look online for used

The Complete Corvette Restoration and Technical Guide, Vol. 2: 1963 Through 1967 $130.00

www.ncrs.org

NCRS Corvette Pocket Specifications Guide 1953-1967 $19.95

65/66/67 NCRS Technical Information Manual & Judging Guides $54.95 EA

NCRS Authentication Library Vol 1 1963-67 Corvette Trim Tags $59.95

Corvette by The Numbers 1955-1982 $59.95


I assure you that will be the best $435 you ever spent and will provide a wealth of knowledge on these cars.

Dennis

gbvette62

The following was posted by John Z about a dozen years ago. If you're not familiar with John, he worked for GM for many years, including at the St Louis Corvette plant, when mid-years were being built there.

The "CE" block (and "CT" transmission) coding was introduced shortly after the 5/50 Powertrain Warranty went into effect for the '67 model year so the GM bean-counters could track the 5/50 warranty costs vs. the usual number of service replacement engines that were ordered by customers for normal customer-paid "over-the-counter" or "out-of-warranty" engine replacements, when it became obvious that the true cost of the 5/50 powertrain warranty was going to be FAR higher than the predictions when the program was sold to GM management.

"CE"-stamped engines were supplied two ways - as short blocks, or as "fitted blocks" (block and fitted pistons, no crank or rods), the assumption being that all the bolt-on parts would be swapped over from the customer's failed engine. They started out being coded with "CE" followed by a number which indicated the calendar year they were built, and a sequence number which indicated how many replacement engines that particular engine plant had built that year, and shortly thereafter Flint Engine added a second letter digit that indicated the month built - don't know offhand if Tonawanda did this or not. The dealer ordered them from a chart that showed a part number for the engine assembly for each application so the engine would have the right internals, but this part number wasn't anywhere on the engine itself - only on a tag and label on the crate it came in. Occasionally "CE"-stamped short blocks were sold over-the-counter for various reasons in those days, but normally customer-paid service replacement engines had blank pads with nothing on them at all.

My '69 Z/28 has a "CE" block, and I have the selling dealer's shop work order for the swap, a year after the car was delivered - must have been a glorious blow-up, as they also had to order a replacement cylinder head (!) along with the "CE" short block assembly.

Although some people see a car with a "CE" block as having reduced resale value, NCRS judging has recognized the stamp-pad issue in the scoring system for the engine block - of the 613 total points allocated to the engine block (out of 4500 for the whole car), 525 are for the casting number and casting date, and only 88 are assigned to the stamp pad (25 for the engine plant stamp, 25 for the assembly plant VIN derivative, and 38 for pad appearance and broach marks). If you have an acceptable casting number and date and a "blank pad", you can still Top Flight, as you can lose 270 points on the car and still make it, and only 88 are assigned to the stamp pad.

vettebuyer6369

Its also fair to note that while the above point is very important and correct, it's not only relevant to CE blocks... a car with a correct block casting number (an "era correct" block), and appropriate casting date for the build, would also only lose the 88 points for the incorrect pad and potentially still qualify for a TF.

pop23235

What I understand is that NCRS judging deducts points for CE blocks as the casting number and date would be "wrong" , even with a warranty replacement. But, a truck engine with the "right" cast date and block number would not. That represents why I can't buy the hype. The idea of rating these old cars is a good one. A quality rating would make more logic to me rather than a numbers rating. I'll admit I'd rather have an unmolested car, but that doesn't seem to be the goal.

vettebuyer6369

I think you are right, but it depends on the application. For instance, I believe a '69 CE engine could be a 010 block, which would be a correct casting number for that year. When you think about it though, it does seem that a CE, per se, would at least lose the points for casting date, and often for casting numbers as well.

Ive always considered a CE as a decent replacement, but still a diminished value comprable to an NOM.

DansYellow66

Everyone will have different opinions on this but mine is that I would gladly have a documented CE warranty replacement block over paying mega-mega bucks necessary to find a completely documented from new, vetted, guaranteed beyond-any-doubt car with it's assembly line, born-with engine.

In between the realistically priced CE block car and the mega-mega-buck, absolutely, positively, born-with engine car - there lies a premium priced car with a correct VIN and engine code stamping and block date casting, but absolutely no documentation, somewhat shady past, a difference of opinions over stamp font & broach marks, and always a nagging worry that it might be fraudulent and information will turn up showing it is.

Unless you are well up in the 1% bracket or extremely well connected in the old Corvette market, kind of makes a nice, CE block car seem like a good deal (IMO). And I would consider it to have more value than my 66 car with a 68 block, 68 intake and 69 heads.

JohnZ

Nope. There are no special considerations in NCRS Flight Judging for "CE" blocks (or for any other block, for that matter). All that matters is the correct casting number and block casting date that makes sense for the car - even if the engine came out of a truck, the correct casting number and date will get you past the hard part of block judging (avoids a 350-point deduction) so all you have to deal with is judging of the pad and stampings (where the most you can lose is 88 points).