Notices
C1 & C2 Corvettes General C1 Corvette & C2 Corvette Discussion, Technical Info, Performance Upgrades, Project Builds, Restorations
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Trim tag, VIN tag and engine stamp verification

 
Old 07-09-2016, 12:56 AM
  #41  
War Bonnet
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,865
Thanked 133 Times in 116 Posts
2018 Corvette of Year Finalist
2017 C3 of Year
Default

Originally Posted by thoyer View Post
The last letter was not always stamped with the rest of the letters. It was stamped once the final driveline configuration was determined. Thus the potential for misalignment.

Tom
Tom,
Besides the misalignment, doesn't the area just around the letter "L" still appear odd?

Regards
War Bonnet is offline  
Old 07-09-2016, 11:19 AM
  #42  
thoyer
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
thoyer's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2005
Location: Warminster PA
Posts: 1,269
Thanked 41 Times in 29 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by War Bonnet View Post
Tom,
Besides the misalignment, doesn't the area just around the letter "L" still appear odd?

Regards
K,

I think the reason it may appear a bit odd is that the "L" stamping is a bit fatter and deeper then the rest of the stamping, thus it displaced more metal when stamped which then appears like a build up of metal around the edges of the letter.

Again, take my "opinion" for what it is worth.

Tom

Last edited by thoyer; 07-09-2016 at 11:20 AM.
thoyer is offline  
Old 07-09-2016, 11:23 AM
  #43  
mattnSD
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Aug 2011
Location: encinitas California
Posts: 399
Thanked 35 Times in 31 Posts
Default

[QUOTE=JohnZ;1592589053]You need to talk to member Pancho Thompson ("67provette"), Kirtland, Ohio - he's the best! [/QUOTE

Now THAT is an endorsement!

(FWIW, Panch did one of mine and I can't complain)
mattnSD is offline  
Old 07-11-2016, 08:22 PM
  #44  
JohnZ
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Washington Michigan
Posts: 37,903
Thanked 948 Times in 633 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by thoyer View Post
There were three variants of the 390hp block in 66. MT, MT with AR and auto trans. My understanding (not always correct mind you) is that in instances like this, the engines were stamped up to the "I" (in this case) at Tonawanda and the last letter was stamped during assy at St Louis once the drive train was known.
Nope. The exact part number for the engine assembly (as shipped from the engine plant) was known as soon as the car order was submitted. The dangling "L" was stamped at Tonawanda - all St. Louis stamped on the pad was the VIN derivative.
JohnZ is online now  
Old 07-11-2016, 09:27 PM
  #45  
thoyer
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
thoyer's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2005
Location: Warminster PA
Posts: 1,269
Thanked 41 Times in 29 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by JohnZ View Post
Nope. The exact part number for the engine assembly (as shipped from the engine plant) was known as soon as the car order was submitted. The dangling "L" was stamped at Tonawanda - all St. Louis stamped on the pad was the VIN derivative.

John,

Thanks for clarifying that. I attended a seminar about engine stamping and identification back in the winter and didn't take too many notes - relied on my memory

I wrote it down this time!

Regards,

Tom
thoyer is offline  
Old 07-11-2016, 10:35 PM
  #46  
survivor66
CF Senior Member
 
survivor66's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2012
Location: Tampa Florida
Posts: 335
Thanked 18 Times in 17 Posts
Default

What I can add to this thread is a very similar trailing "L" in my known to be original and untouched 390 hp engine, verified in person by Al Grenning. I knew the original owner and am the second, FWIW.

Last edited by survivor66; 07-11-2016 at 10:36 PM.
survivor66 is offline  
Old 07-11-2016, 10:53 PM
  #47  
My addiction
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
My addiction's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2016
Location: Vernon B.C.
Posts: 239
Thanked 27 Times in 21 Posts
Default

Trying to keep track of the engine pad votes. So far I think we have 6 in favor that it's real and 4 that think it looks suspect? I can't wait for Pancho to give us his findings. Stay tuned it could be Wednesday evening..........
My addiction is offline  
Old 07-11-2016, 11:03 PM
  #48  
Powershift
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Apr 2005
Location: Luling Louisiana
Posts: 6,741
Thanked 572 Times in 525 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by My addiction View Post
Trying to keep track of the engine pad votes. So far I think we have 6 in favor that it's real and 4 that think it looks suspect? I can't wait for Pancho to give us his findings. Stay tuned it could be Wednesday evening..........
My vote is also "non-original".............and I believe Pancho will confirm this. But let us give him time to make his evaluation back to the OP. There seem to be other issues as well.

Larry
Powershift is online now  
Old 07-11-2016, 11:57 PM
  #49  
My addiction
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
My addiction's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2016
Location: Vernon B.C.
Posts: 239
Thanked 27 Times in 21 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Powershift View Post
My vote is also "non-original".............and I believe Pancho will confirm this. But let us give him time to make his evaluation back to the OP. There seem to be other issues as well.

Larry
Please don't take this wrong but please elaborate on the other issues so I can learn from them? Thanks
My addiction is offline  
Old 07-12-2016, 12:44 AM
  #50  
Paster
CF Senior Member
 
Paster's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2002
Location: Placerville CA
Posts: 131
Thanked 20 Times in 18 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by My addiction View Post
Please don't take this wrong but please elaborate on the other issues so I can learn from them? Thanks

Well for one, the date on the trim tag doesn't line up with the vin. For example, my 66, also an AO Smith car, has a vin number almost 600 cars before that one and has a body build date C05, which is October 5th. This car has a later vin and an earlier (Sept) build date (B02) which doesn't line up. Nowhere Man pointed this out on page 1 of this thread.


My guess is that at the very least the trim tag is a fake and was created by someone that missed the fact that St. Louis and AO Smith used different letters for the months. They thought that B was for Oct. which would be correct if the body was built in St. Louis.

-Michael
Paster is offline  
Old 07-12-2016, 01:18 AM
  #51  
My addiction
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
My addiction's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2016
Location: Vernon B.C.
Posts: 239
Thanked 27 Times in 21 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Paster View Post
Well for one, the date on the trim tag doesn't line up with the vin. For example, my 66, also an AO Smith car, has a vin number almost 600 cars before that one and has a body build date C05, which is October 5th. This car has a later vin and an earlier (Sept) build date (B02) which doesn't line up. Nowhere Man pointed this out on page 1 of this thread.


My guess is that at the very least the trim tag is a fake and was created by someone that missed the fact that St. Louis and AO Smith used different letters for the months. They thought that B was for Oct. which would be correct if the body was built in St. Louis.

-Michael
Thanks Michael

That's why I'm here and it's all part of the learning curve. The knowledge base this board brings is astounding. I feel for those individuals that purchase with eyes closed rather than open. Regardless it will be interesting to see Pancho's evaluation. One door closes another opens : )
My addiction is offline  
Old 07-12-2016, 01:38 AM
  #52  
Paster
CF Senior Member
 
Paster's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2002
Location: Placerville CA
Posts: 131
Thanked 20 Times in 18 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by My addiction View Post
Thanks Michael

That's why I'm here and it's all part of the learning curve. The knowledge base this board brings is astounding. I feel for those individuals that purchase with eyes closed rather than open. Regardless it will be interesting to see Pancho's evaluation. One door closes another opens : )
You are definitely in the right place. And yes, the knowledge on this forum amazes me as well. I still learn new things every week just reading the posts from the more knowledgeable folks here.

Big block midyears are one of the most faked classic cars. I purchased mine from a forum member almost 15 years ago. The car has little documentation so rather than trying to prove it is real Iíve tried to prove it is fake. Fortunately so far everything has lined up and I have been unsuccessful in doing so. Every time I address a different area of the car I come here and research and to date it has worked out in my favor.


Good luck in your search!

-Michael
Paster is offline  
Old 07-12-2016, 09:34 AM
  #53  
jimgessner
CF Senior Member
 
jimgessner's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2000
Location: Bandera Texas
Posts: 3,163
Thanked 125 Times in 86 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by My addiction View Post
Hoping (with heavy emphasis on hoping) I've found the car I've been searching for? Need your scrupulous eyes to look over the Trim and Vin Tags as well as engine stamp. All from 66 Sunfire Yellow Big Block coupe.

Thanking you all in advance!
I am not in love with the broach marks. The bare block photo shows more correct broach. These 73 year old eyes, however need the big screen my APPLE desktop provides and safety of my office to comment.
jimgessner is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to jimgessner For This Useful Post:
1snake (07-12-2016)
Old 07-12-2016, 01:05 PM
  #54  
Powershift
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Apr 2005
Location: Luling Louisiana
Posts: 6,741
Thanked 572 Times in 525 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by jimgessner View Post
I am not in love with the broach marks. The bare block photo shows more correct broach. These 73 year old eyes, however need the big screen my APPLE desktop provides and safety of my office to comment.

I will even go further and say the "O" after the "TI" in the engine build date and the "4" in the VIN derivative also look suspect to me. This is in addition to what has already been said. The person who can best offer an opinion on this is probably Al Grenning.........due to his extensive database on these cars. However, Pancho is also very knowledgeable and very well respected on these cars.

The Trim Tag date is also a concern and does not match the car VIN. It may be a legitimate factory mistake, but it could also prove a problem if OP buys car and later tries to resell. I do not know of any AOS strikes during this time period..........that might be the only reason for a AOS body to be held up for 6 (or more) weeks after assembly. The Trim Tag would need evaluation based on the Grenning/Sinor TT Book. Even then, there could be issues. Additional research is needed.

The body number on the TT is also very low (Coupe #103), giving support to the early September (B02) body build date. The car was not built per the VIN until October 21.

Unless I personally know the car's history and previous owners, I suspect just about all the BB C2 cars I see or judge to be questionable. They need to prove to me they are real.

FWIW.

Larry

Last edited by Powershift; 07-12-2016 at 01:17 PM.
Powershift is online now  
Old 07-12-2016, 02:42 PM
  #55  
lawdawg
CF Senior Member
 
lawdawg's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: alabama
Posts: 111
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

i got dibs on real stamp on vin. i dont think i have ever seen anyone duplicate with any accuracy the thing i see.

guess we will see huh?
lawdawg is offline  
Old 07-16-2016, 12:32 PM
  #56  
War Bonnet
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,865
Thanked 133 Times in 116 Posts
2018 Corvette of Year Finalist
2017 C3 of Year
Default

The conclusion is?

War Bonnet is offline  
Old 07-16-2016, 04:34 PM
  #57  
My addiction
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
My addiction's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2016
Location: Vernon B.C.
Posts: 239
Thanked 27 Times in 21 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by War Bonnet View Post
The conclusion is?

Looks like I'm the new owner of a Sunfire Yellow 66 BB


Big shout out to a couple of board members DansYellow66 & Corvette Will
for all there help and Pancho Thompson for answering ALL my questions and then some : )
Appreciate Pancho's recommendation and would have no hesitation using him again!

Last edited by My addiction; 07-16-2016 at 04:35 PM.
My addiction is offline  
Old 07-16-2016, 05:53 PM
  #58  
Nowhere Man
CF Senior Member
 
Nowhere Man's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2003
Location: Sitting in his Nowhere land Hanover Pa
Posts: 33,918
Thanked 1,482 Times in 1,344 Posts
2015 C2 of Year Finalist
Default

Originally Posted by My addiction View Post
Looks like I'm the new owner of a Sunfire Yellow 66 BB


Big shout out to a couple of board members DansYellow66 & Corvette Will
for all there help and Pancho Thompson for answering ALL my questions and then some : )
Appreciate Pancho's recommendation and would have no hesitation using him again!
thats great news. so what did Pancho say about the car. hope you learned a lot about them now you can learn some more and drive the car too
Nowhere Man is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to Nowhere Man For This Useful Post:
My addiction (07-16-2016)
Old 07-16-2016, 07:41 PM
  #59  
rtruman
CF Senior Member
 
rtruman's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,850
Thanked 188 Times in 163 Posts
Default

Yea we need to hear smoothing
rtruman is offline  
Old 07-16-2016, 08:36 PM
  #60  
My addiction
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
My addiction's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2016
Location: Vernon B.C.
Posts: 239
Thanked 27 Times in 21 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Nowhere Man View Post
thats great news. so what did Pancho say about the car. hope you learned a lot about them now you can learn some more and drive the car too


Well let's put it this way. If Pancho didn't feel it was the real deal I wouldn't have purchased it! He's forgotten more than I'll ever know about these cars! He knows what he's doing and knows what to look for and after inspecting it in person and taking into consideration all factors including looking at the broach marks he concluded " Always an issue with the big block cars is the engine stamp. This one has an out of the ordinary L character. This will always draw an extra close look as it is not the norm. But it has been seen as exceptions several times in the past. The rest all appear as expected. The broach marks for the most part appear to be original with the exception of the lower lower left hand corner that shows scratching. But looking at that same side top portion the original marks are still visible. For those reasons I believe it is an original stamp."
My addiction is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Trim tag, VIN tag and engine stamp verification


Sponsored Ads
Vendor Directory

Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: