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please explain why one should not use old magnesium wheels
Bill
Most race sanctioning organizations don't permit "real" old magnesium wheels due to long-term inter-granular micro-corrosion/separation with age, resulting in structural weakness and shear failure. They're pretty, but don't race on them! (Jim Lockwood photo)
Most race sanctioning organizations don't permit "real" old magnesium wheels due to long-term inter-granular micro-corrosion/separation with age, resulting in structural weakness and shear failure. They're pretty, but don't race on them! (Jim Lockwood photo)
Spoke to Larry Voit who painted my race car back in the mid-70's. As you can see my car the #36 was part of a bigger team of Corvette plus a Camaro. I know that one of the Corvettes (the #37 was driven by Bert Moyer). Anyone know who drove the other cars?
Start with SCCA and determine how many of the names you have were licensed as SCCA pilots; where they received the license and when - to focus on an area/year(s) for each driver. Whatever happened to the logbook?
Restored back to how the car appears in the pictures, the car would likely end up in SVRA Group 10, where it will end up racing with tube frame cars, Greenwood Corvettes, Porsche 930's, former NASCAR Cup cars.
Mid-Years, and most other Corvettes built before 1972, usually race in Group 6, which requires a car to be built to the 1972 SCCA rule book. Your car, having been raced in the late 70's/early 80's, appears to have been built to later SCCA rules. Group 10 is where "production based" cars, that raced from 1973 till 2011, compete.
This is not to say that there aren't exceptions. There have been a number of guys that have been allowed to race in Group 6 with flares. The SVRA doesn't like to allow it, and they're trying to limit it more all the time, but as long as the rest of the car meets the 72 CGR, they'll usually let you race with flares. In Group 6 you still have to run a basically stock suspension, stock cast iron brake calipers, and wheels are limited to 8" wide on a Mid-Year. If the rest of your car conforms to Group 6, they may let you run with flares, though the "Thumper" flares really do push the rules.
You should keep hunting for history on your car. If it was raced in the 60's or early 70's, you may want to try and restore it to Group 6 rules. Now if it was built, and first raced sometime after 1973, you might want to consider restoring with the flares, and to the Group 10 rules. You won't be too competitive in Group 10, racing tube frame Trans-Am and GT-1 cars from the 80's & 90's, but you'll still have fun, and the car will remain faithful to how it originally raced.
You may want to reach out to Jan Hyde, at the Registry of Corvette Race Cars. Jan has a lot of info and knowledge about old Corvette race cars and their owners and drivers. Plus he'll want to include your car in the Registry.
Dr. Simeone's car is the prototype isn't it? Brock's original lines before the Eye-talians "refined" it?
Phil Spector owned this car didn't he, and tried to use it on the street?
Simeone's Daytona Coupe is the first Daytona built, and it is the car that Phil Spector once owned.
The car was only raced a handful of times, with it's best result a class win at Sebring in 64 or 65. Bob Holbert and Phil Hill were two drivers that primarily raced it. The car was also used to set a number of land speed records by Craig Breedlove.
The daughter of someone connected with Spector, owned the car after him. Later the car went through a series of court battles, after an owner willed it to their mother and then committed suicide?
I've seen the car a number of times. Once a month, the doctor takes a couple cars out of the museum, and runs them on the lot behind the museum. On these Demo Days, they will pull certain cars from their displays, and place them in the middle of the museum, where everyone can get up close to them, and really get a good look at them. After discussing the history of the cars chosen for the day's demonstration, they're taken out back to make a few laps around the property.
Today, Sineone's Daytona is basically in the same condition as when Breedlove drove it. When they got it, the nose was damaged, and they had to make repairs to it. The car also had multiple coats of blue paint on it, that they believed were all done by Shelby at the factory. They spent quite a bit of time, compounding the paint until they achieved a uniform finish.
Restored back to how the car appears in the pictures, the car would likely end up in SVRA Group 10, where it will end up racing with tube frame cars, Greenwood Corvettes, Porsche 930's, former NASCAR Cup cars.
Mid-Years, and most other Corvettes built before 1972, usually race in Group 6, which requires a car to be built to the 1972 SCCA rule book. Your car, having been raced in the late 70's/early 80's, appears to have been built to later SCCA rules. Group 10 is where "production based" cars, that raced from 1973 till 2011, compete.
This is not to say that there aren't exceptions. There have been a number of guys that have been allowed to race in Group 6 with flares. The SVRA doesn't like to allow it, and they're trying to limit it more all the time, but as long as the rest of the car meets the 72 CGR, they'll usually let you race with flares. In Group 6 you still have to run a basically stock suspension, stock cast iron brake calipers, and wheels are limited to 8" wide on a Mid-Year. If the rest of your car conforms to Group 6, they may let you run with flares, though the "Thumper" flares really do push the rules.
You should keep hunting for history on your car. If it was raced in the 60's or early 70's, you may want to try and restore it to Group 6 rules. Now if it was built, and first raced sometime after 1973, you might want to consider restoring with the flares, and to the Group 10 rules. You won't be too competitive in Group 10, racing tube frame Trans-Am and GT-1 cars from the 80's & 90's, but you'll still have fun, and the car will remain faithful to how it originally raced.
You may want to reach out to Jan Hyde, at the Registry of Corvette Race Cars. Jan has a lot of info and knowledge about old Corvette race cars and their owners and drivers. Plus he'll want to include your car in the Registry.
Many thanks for the information regarding Group 6 and Group 10 I wasn't aware of this. Regarding Jan I know him well and have actually contributed a lot to the Registry website as I am probably the world's leading authority on the C5R/C6R/C7R chassis given I wrote the book Corvette Racing - The GT1 Years
I actually discovered the SCCA roll cage original stamping today so I am going to contact the SCCA to see if they can shed any further light on the car's history.
I like this car! Cool buy! I like your book, bought it when it first came out! Maybe one of the few on this particular forum that owns it!
I know I have books showing that Team and those cars! And of that car in its current config! They have the messed up rollbar design that didn't brace the drivers side! Pretty stupid, so they are easy to spot! But I am not real well liked by the Corvette race car Registry because I can pull up too much dirt on most of their badly written histories! And have the capacity to tear a bunch of the phony claimed cars up! There isn't a Corvette raced anywhere at a regionally National level, or in a pro level that I couldn't pull records on! But oh well!
The flares went onto the earliest IMSA efforts and onto the latter Trans Am! For SCCA they appeared around 1972/73 on the C3s and for a while you could be IMSA flares, but you had to run the Spec allowed wheel widths, so you see pictures of big flares and rubber that is ill fitting, and then allowances were made for the C2s after those initial C3 allowances! SCCA was putting the flare cars into ASR class! Then the flares were allowed back into BP and AP just before the GT-1 combined class! Just pick the livery you like the best and these organizations will put you out there! Most are letting in a lot of claimed cars with no actual legitimate race history proof, so it is refreshing to see a car that is a true vintage race car! They will be glad to let it run!
I recommend keeping your flares, and just field the car with the IMSA GT cars!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 10-17-2016 at 02:36 PM.
I guess its a question of what you plan to do with the car. if your plan is to get some history and flip it, then i wouldn't do anything to it. if you plan to vintage race it then you would need to decide where and with whom you plan to race it. That will have a major impact on how car is prepared and "restored" ie pick a time period that car is restored back to.
And go a little further on power and performance potential than "back in the day". Vintage people are RACERS, too, by definition they hate to lose. Give 'em some dicing and you both win, regardless of finishing position.
Simeone's Daytona Coupe is the first Daytona built, and it is the car that Phil Spector once owned.
The daughter of someone connected with Spector, owned the car after him. Later the car went through a series of court battles, after an owner willed it to their mother and then committed suicide?
Spector was under a LOT of presure for many years (mostly self-imposed IMO). I'd believe he might have threatened or attempted suicide, rumors of which might have leaked out in modified form.
I like this car! Cool buy! I like your book, bought it when it first came out! Maybe one of the few on this particular forum that owns it!
I know I have books showing that Team and those cars! And of that car in its current config! They have the messed up rollbar design that didn't brace the drivers side! Pretty stupid, so they are easy to spot! But I am not real well liked by the Corvette race car Registry because I can pull up too much dirt on most of their badly written histories! And have the capacity to tear a bunch of the phony claimed cars up! There isn't a Corvette raced anywhere at a regionally National level, or in a pro level that I couldn't pull records on! But oh well!
The flares went onto the earliest IMSA efforts and onto the latter Trans Am! For SCCA they appeared around 1972/73 on the C3s and for a while you could be IMSA flares, but you had to run the Spec allowed wheel widths, so you see pictures of big flares and rubber that is ill fitting, and then allowances were made for the C2s after those initial C3 allowances! SCCA was putting the flare cars into ASR class! Then the flares were allowed back into BP and AP just before the GT-1 combined class! Just pick the livery you like the best and these organizations will put you out there! Most are letting in a lot of claimed cars with no actual legitimate race history proof, so it is refreshing to see a car that is a true vintage race car! They will be glad to let it run!
I recommend keeping your flares, and just field the car with the IMSA GT cars!
Thanks for the information TC
I am working on a follow up book covering 2009 onwards but don't expect to see it in your local book store any time soon
Reversed the car out of my garage today and drove it back in just to check the gearbox / drivetrain works
Taking it 1/2 mile down the road on Tuesday to have the roll cage painted as light surface rust where the paint is missing. Also needs some minor chassis welding and some minor fiberglass work to fix the lower front valance.
If you use a loose definition of "barn find", this is one. The car actually spent the previous 20+ years of its life in the garage of Richard Campbell's residence in a Sugarland, Texas subdivision.
I first saw this car in the mid-70's. It was owned by Jerry Brooks and his brother, who raced it in SCCA. I recall the driver was a guy named Alex who was infamous for parking the team's cars on their roofs. Luckily this Vette was spared.
The Brooks brothers stored and maintained this car in a warehouse which they shared with Lee Moore and myself. Brooks sold the car to Richard Campbell.
At that time the engine was a big block, gray in color, and was claimed to be built by Traco. The car was painted in the manner shown in the above photos contributed by others. Richard repainted it in the scheme as shown in the picture contributed by the current owner.
Richard raced this car in SCCA events with modest success.
09-03-2016, 02:35 PM
