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[C2] Moving a C2 Without the Transmission

Old 09-05-2016, 05:12 PM
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SherpaPilot
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Default Moving a C2 Without the Transmission

Almost a month ago my 65 coupe developed a bearing failure noise in the Muncie 4 speed. Everyone told me it would be an easy job to remove and install the transmission. This forum has been a tremendous help in answering my many questions. It took me a week to remove the transmission. The bell housing had to come off. After the shop finished the Muncie overhaul, I installed a new Luk clutch including the brass pilot bearing. Although it was difficult to manage the transmission into the bell housing, the housing went on. Using advice from this forum, I made two guide pins and placed them in the transmission mounts at opposite corners. The transmission almost went in except for the last 1/2 inch. I know there are lots of similar problems experienced and discussed here. I have read as many as I could. I have been wiggling the transmission, raising and lowering the rear of the engine, changing the level of the transmission and wiggling more. I removed the transmission and visually checked what I could see. Nothing is obstructing including the throw-out bearing/fork. I spent two days attempting to move the tranny only 1/2 inch forward with no success. Geeze, this is fun. I see no alternative but to load this thing up onto a trailer and take it to a shop, pay someone to undo what I did and redo the project. I have worked on cars most of my life, but this one is a problem; Even British sports cars are easier to work on. Sorry for the venting guys.
Here is my question:

Can I load this car onto a trailer without the transmission installed? Without the tranny, there is no support to the rear of the engine. Is there a trick out there that I can do to safely transport this car to a shop? I plan on putting this car up for sale at the end of the year and don't want to damage the existing front motor mounts. Thanks for your help and support; it is greatly appreciated.

Last edited by SherpaPilot; 09-05-2016 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 09-05-2016, 05:15 PM
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Nowhere Man
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did you try putting the trans in neutral and spinning the yoke small turns and trying to push the trans in
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Old 09-05-2016, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Nowhere Man View Post
did you try putting the trans in neutral and spinning the yoke small turns and trying to push the trans in
Yes
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Old 09-05-2016, 05:17 PM
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Pop Chevy
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Clutch plate isn't lined up with the pilot bushing. Have a friend push the clutch pedal while you wiggle the trans. I'll bet it drops right in.
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Old 09-05-2016, 05:19 PM
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SherpaPilot
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Thanks Pop, I tried that already but will give it another go.
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Old 09-05-2016, 05:59 PM
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Mike Geary
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Default supporting engine w/ trans out

I used this method for the converse situation (engine out, trans in) but it should work just as well for you. A CF buddy shared it with me and it worked perfectly.

You're going to use a length of B-strut U channel attached to the ends of the firewall body mount bolts. The bell housing needs to be on the engine.

Get yourself 2 threaded couplers and thread them onto the protruding body bolt tips. Then bolt up the B-strut, cut to the right length, to the couplers, You can use nuts/washers on the attachment bolt shanks to adjust the strut up so that it contacts the bell housing.

Last edited by Mike Geary; 09-05-2016 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 09-05-2016, 06:35 PM
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When I've had that problem (won't go last 1/2 inch) pushing in the clutch pedal as said above always took care of the issue. I would give it another try - should go. The only reason I can think of that it won't - is if the pilot bushing diameter is smaller than the tip of the input shaft.
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Old 09-05-2016, 07:29 PM
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Do you have another input shaft or pilot tool? Once the clutch plate and pilot bushing are aligned, it's usually a bump and in. If you didn't do this, it can be impossible.
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Old 09-05-2016, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by pop23235 View Post
Do you have another input shaft or pilot tool? Once the clutch plate and pilot bushing are aligned, it's usually a bump and in. If you didn't do this, it can be impossible.



also if it doesn't fit then the PB might have gotten damaged when you put it in the crank or trying to put in trans...

Check and make sure there are no burr's/nicks to PB...
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Old 09-05-2016, 08:03 PM
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Mr D.
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Go read the below thread, sounds like you have the same problem I had with a new LUK clutch set.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...releasing.html
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Old 09-05-2016, 09:17 PM
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Guys, Thanks for the responses. The pilot bushing was checked on the transmission shaft while the transmission sat on my workbench. I was very careful when installing it into the crankshaft. I also polished the entry point with emery cloth and checked it again with the supplied alignment tool. I aligned the clutch with the alignment tool and was careful to check it several times.
I skipped ahead and read the thread posted by Mr. Z concerning throwout bearings. In my application, I am using a 350 cid 1974 engine originally found in a Chevrolet truck. My transmission codes come back to a 1967 Muncie. I'm going to measure the old throwout bearing and see if they are any different in size. Even if different, I believe the transmission should still fit properly to the bell housing. I'll be glad when this nightmare is over.
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Old 09-05-2016, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SherpaPilot View Post
Guys, Thanks for the responses. The pilot bushing was checked on the transmission shaft while the transmission sat on my workbench. I was very careful when installing it into the crankshaft. I also polished the entry point with emery cloth and checked it again with the supplied alignment tool. I aligned the clutch with the alignment tool and was careful to check it several times.
I skipped ahead and read the thread posted by Mr. Z concerning throwout bearings. In my application, I am using a 350 cid 1974 engine originally found in a Chevrolet truck. My transmission codes come back to a 1967 Muncie. I'm going to measure the old throwout bearing and see if they are any different in size. Even if different, I believe the transmission should still fit properly to the bell housing. I'll be glad when this nightmare is over.
All good advice. I would try Pop Chevy's advice once more. If problems still persist, it could be:

1. Pilot bushing got damaged or necked down during the installation into the crankshaft. This will not allow the end of the trans input shaft to slide in the last 1/2 inch or so.

2. Bellhousing is not centered to the crank centerline and requires off-set bushings. This is normally not a problem is you reuse the same engine and bell housing and transmission...........just changing the clutch........but if you replaced any of the three items I mentioned, then you need to do a bell housing alignment check with a dial indicator. Otherwise you could have a few thousanths (of an inch) of misalignment between the trans input shaft and the engine crankshaft causing an interference.

Since the normal clearance between the trans input shaft nose and the pilot bushing is around 0.003 inch, it doesn't take much bellhousing misalignment to cause a problem.

Larry

EDIT: The plastic alignment tools are better than nothing, but to do the job right the first time you really need a dummy input shaft from another similar transmission. That way you KNOW it will fit. However bell housing misalignment due to changing parts during the clutch install could still be a concern/issue.

Last edited by Powershift; 09-05-2016 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 09-05-2016, 10:22 PM
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I might have missed it ,but the one thing I haven't seen discussed is bell housing alignment . Since you're 1/2 inch from seating the trans you're through the throw out and the disc , the pilot bushing being the right size an properly installed leaves only bell housing alignment. There is a procedure for checking alignment,uses a dial indicator, had to do it all the time when installing a after market steel blow shield. Some where in the past ,someone may have used offset guide pins in the back of the block, or the index holes in the bell housing may be over size. If it's off a few thousands of an inch ,the input shaft won't go. A tranny R&R is an easy job with the flywheel and a new clutch ,shouldn't take more than a couple of hours, the problems you've encountered aren't because of your ineptitude, they're because some one before you screwed it up, you shouldn't have to "farm it out" you should be able to figure it out. Forget about what the book says, look for the unusual. I'd try loosening the bolts on the bell housing, if that lets you seat the trans ,get a new bell an index it to the block,if it doesn't take a good look at the guide pins on the block .Seems like you've got a lot of sweat equity invested, don't give up yet!
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Old 09-05-2016, 11:24 PM
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I've encountered the same problem several times over the years. The following has always worked for me. First make sure the car is solidly supported at all four corners. Remove the coil wire completely. Put some one in the drivers seat and get under the car. Support the rear of the transmission so it is pretty much in alignment. Apply a little forward pressure to the transmission. Have your partner inside the car lightly bump the starter. The trans should pull right into the correct position. Do not crank the engine just bump it.
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Old 09-06-2016, 09:29 AM
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DansYellow66
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Again - have someone hold the clutch pedal down and while you slide it in. It will go.
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DansYellow66 View Post
Again - have someone hold the clutch pedal down and while you slide it in. It will go.

This is your problem bet the farm on it.
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DansYellow66 View Post
Again - have someone hold the clutch pedal down and while you slide it in. It will go.
Never had one go in without having the clutch in.
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Old 09-06-2016, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by kenba View Post
Never had one go in without having the clutch in.
If you use the transmission to bell housing alignment pins(2) and an old/ cutdown transmission input shaft for initial alignment, you will not need to touch the clutch pedal. Try it.

Larry
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Old 09-06-2016, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Powershift View Post
cutdown transmission input shaft for initial alignment
Larry
most people don't have one of those, I do; BUT the clutch disc for my Keisler is 26 spline so now I need to find another one.... anyone have 1 to spare?

the plastic ones that come with clutch kits suk...

Bill

Last edited by wmf62; 09-06-2016 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 09-06-2016, 02:41 PM
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DansYellow66
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Originally Posted by Powershift View Post
If you use the transmission to bell housing alignment pins(2) and an old/ cutdown transmission input shaft for initial alignment, you will not need to touch the clutch pedal. Try it.

Larry
I used to have an old cut off one back in the 70s and I lost it or threw it away somewhere. Still kicking myself for that.
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