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Value?: 60 CV 4 speed ground up restored

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Old 09-18-2016, 04:22 PM   #1
judges4u
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Default Value?: 60 CV 4 speed ground up restored

Hello,

I'm helping an elderly couple sell their 1960 Corvette Convertible. The owners are getting too old for the car. I know itís difficult to make a value judgment unless you personally see the car, but any suggestions are much appreciated.

See photos of my resto work. A high degree of factory spec study and detailing went into the resto. The original paint buffed out nicely.

I restored the car for them ground up about three years ago. They have logged about 2000 miles since then. The car has 105K miles documented. Lots of patina on the car. I received invaluable resto assistance from this forum that I truly appreciate.

Original paint car. The seller's wife received the car from her Dad upon his death. Her Dad was a Brigadier General (BG) in the USAF. Fighter Jock (P-38 Lightning, P-51D Mustang) Bomber pilot in WWII and Korean war. The General was the second owner from my studies of the archives the wife has. The BG star is still on the front bumper. And when cleaning out the trunk, I found the General's one star HQ flag that was flown in front of his HQ building. Upon delivery of the car, I draped the flag over the car before his daughter came out to see the car; she was in joyful tears; a true moment to pause and reflect on the resto of a war hero's car. I took a lot of pride restoring this car; very sentimental value to me as I was a pilot too in the USMC for 26 years.

The car needed a complete drive train resto. Front end was rebuilt too; wheel bearings, tie rod ends, shocks, etc. Tranny is not original; had a 67 tranny, but I found a DEC 1959 date coded original tranny to match the build date of the car and she is totally rebuilt and shifts fine. All new internal gears, etc. All four brakes restored. New stainless exhaust system. Original wheels restored. New period tires from Coker tires.

Original 283 4 BBl Engine completely restored; bored 030. Correct carb restored. Convertible frame painstakingly restored and trued; and new vinyl top and tacks, etc; from Al Knoch El Paso, TX. Passenger head is original; driver head is off a 62 Vette I believe.
Original radiator restored. Original distributor restored by Buffalo Machine Works, Colorado. The owner however took the car to a local shop who installed electronic ignition and coil...ugh. The car ran perfectly upon break in and delivery, but the shop took advantage of the owner who initially called the shop to jump start the car (dead battery). $900.00 later the mechanic replaced the period correct battery with interstate brand too. I'm not sure if electronic ignition will bring down value of car; need recommendation on that end please.

Generator restored. Entire heater ventilation system / box / ducting replaced / restored; works as factory new.

All lights and signals work. Car runs and drives very nicely.

Thanks for any insight on value and demand for such a car that does have a unique history.
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Old 09-18-2016, 04:27 PM   #2
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Default More photos of car

More photos of car
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Old 09-18-2016, 04:36 PM   #3
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I'd say you did 'em proud.

I hate those damned shops that take advantage of the less than mechanically inclined. However, I don't think the electronic ignition conversion will make a dime's difference in the car's value. Its about 40 minutes to take it back original.

Not a big fan of those hubcaps but the owners might be.
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Old 09-18-2016, 04:40 PM   #4
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I'd say you did 'em proud.

I hate those damned shops that take advantage of the less than mechanically inclined. However, I don't think the electronic ignition conversion will make a dime's difference in the car's value. Its about 40 minutes to take it back original.

Not a big fan of those hubcaps but the owners might be.
Thanks Frankie,

The General liked those caps better; came with the car when I picked up to bring to my shop. Any idea what kind of money a car like this would bring on average? Thank you.
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Old 09-18-2016, 04:48 PM   #5
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Not sure what to say on the money... The C1 market has softened considerably lately.

I can tell you that my 95% original 1961, two-top, real-deal dual quad 270hp car sold last month for $65K. Rock solid car, but the paint was tired and a bit of an odd color, the front end was going to need a thorough going over and the driver's seat had a small tear. I feel I got 'all the money' for the car as it sat.

I see prices all over the place but I can't see why this car couldn't get up in that range - but maybe I'm optimistic.
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Old 09-18-2016, 04:48 PM   #6
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The Star!!!!!!!
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Old 09-18-2016, 04:54 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Frankie the Fink View Post
Not sure what to say on the money... The C1 market has softened considerably lately.

I can tell you that my 95% original 1961, two-top, real-deal dual quad 270hp car sold last month for $65K. Rock solid car, but the paint was tired and a bit of an odd color, the front end was going to need a thorough going over and the driver's seat had a small tear. I feel I got 'all the money' for the car as it sat.

I see prices all over the place but I can't see why this car couldn't get up in that range - but maybe I'm optimistic.
Thanks for the insight. The seat covers, carpet, etc., are all original too. I think you did rock solid on selling point. Congratulations.

Do you think the car owned by a BG adds to the value? And does the originality / patina the primary selling point on this car? Thanks

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Old 09-18-2016, 05:02 PM   #8
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Thanks for the insight. The seat covers, carpet, etc., are all original too. I think you did rock solid on selling point. Congratulations.

Do you think the car owned by a BG adds to the value? And does the originality / patina the primary selling point on this car? Thanks
Man, you ask hard questions. I think the car having been owned by a WW-II Mustang pilot is just a great piece of owner history; I think it wouldn't affect the value a dime.

As to patina....there is the patina crowd and there are all the 'other' folks. To me if the patina isn't part of the overall condition of a 'survivor' car (meaning nearly everything is VERY original) its just things I'll have to restore Not much of a patina guy; others will surely have their own outlook..
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Old 09-18-2016, 06:22 PM   #9
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Stories are just facts dont add any value

If they cant figure it out they can adopt me so I can take care of it.
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Old 09-18-2016, 07:02 PM   #10
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A nice car brings nice $
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Old 09-18-2016, 07:13 PM   #11
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Chuck Berg is a for hire Corvette finder based in Virginia. He helps people buy and sell Corvettes. A great guy with first-class Corvette knowledge. He is the 1968-69 NCRS Team Leader.......but also KNOWS solid axle cars.

You could call and perhaps get an appraisal in "real world" prices and advice. It would cost a bit, but I think would really help you and the seller out. He may even know of a potential buyer.

Larry
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:02 AM   #12
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Very Nice! I'll give you $20,000....LOL! JK!
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Old 02-18-2017, 08:03 AM   #13
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judges4u, that is a very nice car. Judging by the pictures, you did a terrific job on the work you performed. To the right person the price that Frankie mentioned would be no problem at all. I don't believe you could replicate the car for anywhere near that price today unless you did the work yourself and didn't place a value on your time.

Thank you for your honesty in helping these folks bring the car to this state. Unfortunately the Forum has had too many horror stories lately of people in their position being taken advantage of and it is reassuring to learn that there are still honest craftsmen out there doing it the old fashioned way.

If they are in no big hurry, I would suggest they bring it to Corvettes at Carlisle this August and offer it for sale there. If they've never been to Carlisle before, they will enjoy the show and perhaps better understand why their Father originally fell in love with it. They may even decide it's just too "valuable" to part with at this time.

Good luck... GUSTO
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Old 02-18-2017, 10:04 AM   #14
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Thank you for your honesty in helping these folks bring the car to this state. Unfortunately the Forum has had too many horror stories lately of people in their position being taken advantage of and it is reassuring to learn that there are still honest craftsmen out there doing it the old fashioned way.

If they are in no big hurry, I would suggest they bring it to Corvettes at Carlisle this August and offer it for sale there. If they've never been to Carlisle before, they will enjoy the show and perhaps better understand why their Father originally fell in love with it. They may even decide it's just too "valuable" to part with at this time.

Good luck... GUSTO[/QUOTE]

Gusto,

Thanks for the cudos.

This car sold yesterday. The selling points were "honesty;" the originality and the car was unmolested, and the detailed work I did helped for a decent price for the car. Win win for everyone.

I see your avatar is an MV-22. I was a CH-46E pilot for 26 years. Started as a Private in April of 1974, and worked my way up to LtCol. Retired from the Corps in 2004, then started my part time resto business. I do most of the work on the cars. I farm out the paint and restore original parts that come with the car, or I find date coded parts and use / restore. I'm known more for GTO resto work. Been a Judge at the GTO Nationals, etc.

You are so right about dishonest people in this hobby / business. People hire me to authenticate cars too. I've inspected many GTOs, Chevelles, Road Runners, etc., and found quite a few unsuspecting owners had no clue about how to check the originality / date codes and part numbers. Either that, or they were lying and knew the car had issues.

In 2002, I was hired to inspect a 70 LS-6 Convertible in VA; the seller wanted $132K for the car; a very good price. Upon arrival, the seller took me to a typical storage facility (I thought that was odd to store such an ultra rare car), and trying to inspect a car like this in such a small cramped location in the winter was not ideal. After a two hour inspection I was suspicious of the block; looked like a restamp; the date was correct to match the car's build date; I checked the part number, and the block was a Mercury Marine engine 454 block! The owner got really upset when I showed him the part number. He had bought the car from someone in CA. After adding up the storage location, his urgency for me to finish inspecting, the cowl plate looked suspicious; hardly any documentation, etc., I concluded the car was a clone. There are dishonest people who advertise reproducing vin number tags and fisher body firewall cowl plates.

My best advice to anyone buying an expensive classic car is to have the owner sign a notarized document stating what he is advertising the car to be. Include the clause that the body is original to the car, all factory identity plates are original; detail what parts are original that the car was assembled with in the factory, etc. If they don't want to provide a notarized document, then move on. A notarized document should be tailored for the car you are buying; too many variables for this writing.

If I'm helping a friend sell their classic, or someone is paying me, I advise: make the buyer as comfortable as possible to ensure he begins to trust you the "seller" (to be an honest person). Never hide anything bad about the car. Be totally up front about the condition of the entire car. A person's reputation is worth more than any money value. Even if you try to promote honesty, ensure you have the notarized document. This keeps buyers from coming back to haunt you after the car was sold; stating for instance the buyer found some rust that he/she didn't find upon inspecting the car even though the seller was totally honest about the car. I have seen this happen before as well. I am amazed at what some people will do after buying an expensive car. They have buyers remorse because they found a better car for less money and want their money back, or compensation for a defect that was not listed in the notarized document.

The more forum members are educated, the more we can keep the bad guys at bay.
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Old 02-18-2017, 11:08 AM   #15
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From one GTO guy to another, thank you for an excellent thread and last post. Great advice to anybody thinking of getting their feet wet.
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Old 02-18-2017, 11:42 AM   #16
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Hey Judge. I recall you posted some pics of the 'Vette earlier. The buyer certainly got a very nice, solid Vette that they will be able to enjoy.

Excellent work on the resto. You did the general and his family proud!

Randy
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Old 02-18-2017, 01:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Chuck Berg is a for hire Corvette finder based in Virginia. He helps people buy and sell Corvettes. A great guy with first-class Corvette knowledge. He is the 1968-69 NCRS Team Leader.......but also KNOWS solid axle cars.

You could call and perhaps get an appraisal in "real world" prices and advice. It would cost a bit, but I think would really help you and the seller out. He may even know of a potential buyer.

Larry
Hi Larry. Yes, I spoke to Chuck at the beginning of the resto. Very nice man and tops for knowledge.
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Old 02-18-2017, 01:32 PM   #18
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From one GTO guy to another, thank you for an excellent thread and last post. Great advice to anybody thinking of getting their feet wet.
Thanks GTOguy.

You'll like the next car I'm currently restoring; a 70 black on black 4 speed Ram Air IV round port head Judge for a friend in AZ. Hope to be finished at the end of summer. Like most of the RA IV GTOs, this car has a date coded SR block. All other parts are date code correct. Body is finished, drive train restored, now assembling interior, etc., per factory specs. Check pics.
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Old 02-18-2017, 01:52 PM   #19
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Hey Judge. I recall you posted some pics of the 'Vette earlier. The buyer certainly got a very nice, solid Vette that they will be able to enjoy.

Excellent work on the resto. You did the general and his family proud!

Randy
Thanks Randy. The first guy to call was the first in the order to see the car (they're were five lined up), looked at the car for a few minutes and after a cold start (very important when selling an older car is to show the buyer the car cranks right up without hesitation when the engine is cold) it was a done deal. He saw that the complex piston choke system and exhaust manifold heat riser that comes with a 1960 283 CI engine, worked as advertised. The bronze pistons in the choke base housing in Carter AFBs are notorious for binding. He was very happy with the system checks.

I had all the tools, lights, and equipment ready for him to inspect / accommodate, and this is a good start to make a buyer (who will shell out big coin) comfortable. I guaranteed him, he would be the first guy to see the car; he was concerned I might sell the car to someone before him.

Judge
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