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My new sidepipes from Classic Chambered Exhaust arrived yesterday, just in time for an early winter as it started snowing here yesterday and hasn't stopped yet.
But on the bright side they are 3" internal diameter. My last pipes were 2.5" diameter but they had a bad resonance in the 1800 rpm range.
So these pipes were a custom build by Eric. They have a 24" chambered section followed by a 16" resonator section that should tone down the sound a little. Hopefully the snow will stop and melt in the next couple of days and I will have them installed.
Here's some pics to peruse:
They look like truck pipes!
3" internal diameter. 3.5" external should just fit inside the covers.
Nice internal chambers.
When I had my engine on a dyno this spring the first thing the dyno-tuner said was upgrade your sidepipes with something that can move the exhaust out more efficiently. He said I'm losing anywhere from 20-40 HP at the rear wheels. Hope he was right about the HP gains - time will tell. Probably won't get it back on the dyno until spring.
My new sidepipes from Classic Chambered Exhaust arrived yesterday, just in time for an early winter as it started snowing here yesterday and hasn't stopped yet.
But on the bright side they are 3" internal diameter. My last pipes were 2.5" diameter but they had a bad resonance in the 1800 rpm range.
So these pipes were a custom build by Eric. They have a 24" chambered section followed by a 16" resonator section that should tone down the sound a little. Hopefully the snow will stop and melt in the next couple of days and I will have them installed.
Here's some pics to peruse:
They look like truck pipes!
3" internal diameter. 3.5" external should just fit inside the covers.
Nice internal chambers.
When I had my engine on a dyno this spring the first thing the dyno-tuner said was upgrade your sidepipes with something that can move the exhaust out more efficiently. He said I'm losing anywhere from 20-40 HP at the rear wheels. Hope he was right about the HP gains - time will tell. Probably won't get it back on the dyno until spring.
65-StingRay
Wayne
If you really want to know the effect those fatter pipes had on your engine output, do NOT make any other changes (other than possibly rejetting) before putting it back on the dyno. I'd be interested to know what difference the change makes.
Do you have a modified engine? What kind of rear wheel HP are you putting out now? I would love to get 20 to 40 rear wheel HP with just a side pipe change. Will be following your lead on this if you get at least 20 HP.
My new sidepipes from Classic Chambered Exhaust arrived yesterday, just in time for an early winter as it started snowing here yesterday and hasn't stopped yet.
But on the bright side they are 3" internal diameter. My last pipes were 2.5" diameter but they had a bad resonance in the 1800 rpm range.
So these pipes were a custom build by Eric. They have a 24" chambered section followed by a 16" resonator section that should tone down the sound a little. Hopefully the snow will stop and melt in the next couple of days and I will have them installed.
Here's some pics to peruse:
They look like truck pipes!
3" internal diameter. 3.5" external should just fit inside the covers.
Nice internal chambers.
When I had my engine on a dyno this spring the first thing the dyno-tuner said was upgrade your sidepipes with something that can move the exhaust out more efficiently. He said I'm losing anywhere from 20-40 HP at the rear wheels. Hope he was right about the HP gains - time will tell. Probably won't get it back on the dyno until spring.
65-StingRay
Wayne
Wayne,
Do not use that foul, 4-letter word here on this forum!!!
I'm interested in seeing the potential HP gain with these new pipes! Please keep us posted! Hope you get better weather in the coming wek!
My new sidepipes from Classic Chambered Exhaust arrived yesterday, just in time for an early winter as it started snowing here yesterday and hasn't stopped yet.
But on the bright side they are 3" internal diameter. My last pipes were 2.5" diameter but they had a bad resonance in the 1800 rpm range.
So these pipes were a custom build by Eric. They have a 24" chambered section followed by a 16" resonator section that should tone down the sound a little. Hopefully the snow will stop and melt in the next couple of days and I will have them installed.
Here's some pics to peruse:
When I had my engine on a dyno this spring the first thing the dyno-tuner said was upgrade your sidepipes with something that can move the exhaust out more efficiently. He said I'm losing anywhere from 20-40 HP at the rear wheels. Hope he was right about the HP gains - time will tell. Probably won't get it back on the dyno until spring.
65-StingRay
Wayne
Eric designed those pipes based on a telephone discussion we had about 6-7 years ago. I suggested to him that he add a small section of "glasspack" to the chambered section, to act as a resonator. Nice guy that Eric is, he was enthusiastic and soon thereafter began building these pipes.
I received the pilot set at a discount. You might see his comments about me on the Classic Chambered website. The rest is history. The desired result was achieved................pleasant and well muted exhaust with minimal power reduction.
In my case, I can tell you that power loss is minimal. I dyno tested my 327 which is equipped with headers, feeding mandrel bent tubes into the VettePacks, model 3040-VETTE, which are 3 1/2" shells using 3" inner tubes:
Power was measured in 4th gear, @ 414 RWHP with the headers open.
Power was measured in 4th gear, @ 406 RWHP through the mufflers.
Last edited by 65tripleblack; 10-09-2016 at 12:20 PM.
65 tripleblack do you know what your rear wheel was before Eric's custom designed pipes were installed? Trying to get to the gain over stock side pipes.
That some serious RWHP your producing.
65tripleblack, I did see what Eric said about the building of your system. I followed your lead but shortened up the resonator section from 20" to 16".
When your sidepipes were installed did you have to transfer the rear brackets and rear tips from your old pipes to your new ones? If this was the case did the work performed turn out OK? Any tips?
My rear wheel HP this spring was 382 on a Mustang Dyno. This from a BB 496 cu. in. So in retrospect, I hope for at least 20 HP and anything above that will be a bonus. Eric also said there would be a noticeable difference.
I won't be changing any parameters other than adding the pipes before the test but that won't be until spring. We have a ton of snow on the ground that better melt.
Maybe if the weather changes for the better I may be able to get one or two dyno runs in. This will depend on snow melting and then having exhaust installed.
65 tripleblack do you know what your rear wheel was before Eric's custom designed pipes were installed? Trying to get to the gain over stock side pipes.
That some serious RWHP your producing.
Sorry RJ1, but I don't have that info for you.
The power gain of course depends on engine displacement, cam specs, induction config, head config, maximum RPM, RPM @ max power among other things.
Probably the two most important factors among the above are engine displacement and engine RPM range.
What can you say about the above, as well as how you drive your car, transmission and axle gearing?
My mufflers are not custom designed. They are Eric's model 3040-VETTE units. My exhaust system IS custom designed, including the header tube ends and flanges.
Last edited by 65tripleblack; 10-09-2016 at 04:24 PM.
65tripleblack, I did see what Eric said about the building of your system. I followed your lead but shortened up the resonator section from 20" to 16".
When your sidepipes were installed did you have to transfer the rear brackets and rear tips from your old pipes to your new ones? If this was the case did the work performed turn out OK? Any tips?
My rear wheel HP this spring was 382 on a Mustang Dyno. This from a BB 496 cu. in. So in retrospect, I hope for at least 20 HP and anything above that will be a bonus. Eric also said there would be a noticeable difference.
I won't be changing any parameters other than adding the pipes before the test but that won't be until spring. We have a ton of snow on the ground that better melt.
Maybe if the weather changes for the better I may be able to get one or two dyno runs in. This will depend on snow melting and then having exhaust installed.
65-StingRay
Wayne
Wayne,
I bought brand new chrome tips from a different pipe/muffler vendor. Was told that he was close to running out of them. Maybe there are some out there, otherwise polished stainless steel tips are readily available. MUFFLEX, who built my blueprinted design system, fabricated a rear bracket for the mufflers. I added my own front bracket/sling which mounts to the forward body mount just aft of the front wheelhouse. DO NOT wrap your mufflers. Use the old fashioned composite insulators which reside within the original design sidepipe covers. As long as your clearances between the frame and the covers are adequate (say........1/8 -1/4") then you have no heat issues or burnt shins.
Mine was run on a Dynojet dyno. No way to correlate the differences between our results. Others may chime in about this. With your horsepower numbers and the big engine, I reckon that your peak torque is at least 100 ft-lbs higher than mine and drops off rapidly beyond, say..............5000 RPM, which kills your horsepower peak. With such a large displacement engine, the difference between breathing through a 1 3/4" GM (or stock clone) inner tube and a 3" inner tube will be VERY significant.
I won't speculate but will safely say that not only will you see it on a graph, but you'll feel the torque and sustained power as well.
Post a dyno graph and I can post mine. Other more analytical minds which populate this place will enhance our discussion.
Best of luck to you!
Last edited by 65tripleblack; 10-09-2016 at 04:52 PM.
65tripleblack, Appreciate the reply and advice. I was going to cut my stainless tips off and the anchor brackets at the rear and have them welded back on. I won't wrap them and I'll check the clearances.
Your right about the torque dropping off after 5000 rpms. I'm sure a little head work could go a long way here.
I'm also interested in your front bracket and how it's attached. Do you have a pic?
Just like you, I had a custom set of sidepipe headers built. The guy who built them does great work - they're stepped starting at 1 7/8" for the first 10-12" and then up to 2" and filter down into a nice 3 1/2" collector.
Ceramic coated.
Excuse the messy work bench.
I'll look for that dyno sheet - it's somewhere with all my papers - I'm a messy book-keeper too.
Wayne
Last edited by 65-StingRay; 10-09-2016 at 06:54 PM.
My new sidepipes from Classic Chambered Exhaust arrived yesterday, just in time for an early winter as it started snowing here yesterday and hasn't stopped yet.
But on the bright side they are 3" internal diameter. My last pipes were 2.5" diameter but they had a bad resonance in the 1800 rpm range.
So these pipes were a custom build by Eric. They have a 24" chambered section followed by a 16" resonator section that should tone down the sound a little. Hopefully the snow will stop and melt in the next couple of days and I will have them installed.
Here's some pics to peruse:
They look like truck pipes!
3" internal diameter. 3.5" external should just fit inside the covers.
Nice internal chambers.
Probably should keep my Mouth Shut/Thoughts to myself on Flow Dynamics of exhaust shown.
What I see is 2 1/2" effective system.
First thing I see that leads me to this conclusion are the two 1/2" neck downs to 3.0" ID in what I think is the resonator'a flow potential, what I can't see is if there is any sound absorbing material between them, but regardless those two 1/2" restrictions prevent them from flowing at a 3.0" flow rate.
Then looking into other end, the picture shows there is a 1/2" ID flow restriction to that section of the 3.0 ID of pipe due the addition sound deaden material.
But again this system is far better than stock by being a 2 1/2" I/D effective exhaust flow thru system.
Last edited by Poorhousenext; 10-10-2016 at 07:53 AM.
Probably should keep my Mouth Shut/Thoughts to myself on Flow Dynamics of exhaust shown.
What I see is 2 1/2" effective system.
First thing I see that leads me to this conclusion are the two 1/2" neck downs to 3.0" ID in what I think is the resonator'a flow potential, what I can't see is if there is any sound absorbing material between them, but regardless those two 1/2" restrictions prevent them from flowing at a 3.0" flow rate.
Then looking into other end, the picture shows there is a 1/2" ID flow restriction to that section of the 3.0 ID of pipe due the addition sound deaden material.
But again this system is far better than stock by being a 2 1/2" I/D effective exhaust flow thru system.
EXCELLENT response. You sound like I did when I was shopping.
True, and true of any chambered exhaust design. The stock setup starts with a 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 inner tube using similar projections into the flow path. So by the same reasoning, a stock muffler would "effectively" be 1 1/2". There is no step on the inside. It's the effect of the photo. Another difference with stock mufflers are that the projections are rectangular. The sound absorbing material is in the resonator section only. It cannot be seen as it is between the inner and outer shell. The chambered sections are hollow and empty.
When I was looking for my mufflers, I asked every vendor if they could custom make a set for me with the flaps/louvers/deformations facing INTO THE CHAMBERS rather than into the flow path. The answer was "no".
I believe that the flow cannot be laminar. It has to be turbulent, at least near the outer regions of the inner tube. I believe that the flow must be slowed down in order to attenuate the sound, as well as some of it being reflected back, out of the chambered sections to cancel some of the sound waves. Very interesting observation. I was never able to get a satisfactory answer from muffler designers.
65tripleblack, Appreciate the reply and advice. I was going to cut my stainless tips off and the anchor brackets at the rear and have them welded back on. I won't wrap them and I'll check the clearances.
Your right about the torque dropping off after 5000 rpms. I'm sure a little head work could go a long way here.
I'm also interested in your front bracket and how it's attached. Do you have a pic?
Just like you, I had a custom set of sidepipe headers built. The guy who built them does great work - they're stepped starting at 1 7/8" for the first 10-12" and then up to 2" and filter down into a nice 3 1/2" collector.
Ceramic coated.
Excuse the messy work bench.
I'll look for that dyno sheet - it's somewhere with all my papers - I'm a messy book-keeper too.
Wayne
Your heads are probably ok. If you did the dyno pulls through stock side pipes, that's what's choking your engine.
Because these mufflers are heavier than stock ones, I made slings out of band iron, which I attached to the forward body mounts using flat washers and an additional nut. The band iron slings simply go under the pipes and attach to the threaded forward mounts. There is enough additional thread left on them so you don't have to remove the body mount nuts. Very hard to get up there and very hard to adjust the length so that they support the front of the exhaust system. I have no pictures of them, but hopefully you get the idea.
My headers are not custom. They are standard issue Hedman sidepipe headers with 1 5/8" primary tubes, which I originally used when this engine was wearing double hump heads. Because my new aluminum heads use raised "D" exhaust ports, I cut off the original crappy 1/4" thick round port flanges and ordered new 3/8" '"D" port flanges. I reshaped the last 1/2" of the tubes to progress from round to "D" shape and welded them to the new flanges.
Last edited by 65tripleblack; 10-10-2016 at 12:58 PM.
Poorhousenext, I like your observations on the exhaust but I also like 65tripleblack's explanations. Like he said about muffler designers the answers are hard to come by. I guess that's why dyno's were invented to test for real world results. I guess I will find that out sooner or later.
65tripleblack thanks again for answering my questions. Even without a picture I understand what you did at the front. Thanks again.
Poorhousenext, I like your observations on the exhaust but I also like 65tripleblack's explanations. Like he said about muffler designers the answers are hard to come by. I guess that's why dyno's were invented to test for real world results. I guess I will find that out sooner or later.
65tripleblack thanks again for answering my questions. Even without a picture I understand what you did at the front. Thanks again.
Wayne
Wayne,
I'm not knocking the 2 1/2", that's the same as if you were running 3.0" Header collector into a 2 1/2" tail pipe which I believe is the max size you can route thru stock location, that might not flow the volume/ speed of those side pipes due to length, turns and mufflers of a 2 1/2" under car system.
Run the car on the long black 1/4 dyno, that's more real world...than any Dyno you tune on. Per Dyno, my car can' run in the high 11's, but it does at 291 lbs heavier than GM curb weight for a 1964 Coupe without me in it.
Last edited by Poorhousenext; 10-10-2016 at 03:56 PM.
Two things on my bucket list for next year - the 1/4 mile dyno and our local road course.
Of course there is one more thing to add to this mix and that would be some stickier rubber in the form of Nitto drag radials.
Wayne, not trying to crash your thread here, but Poorhouse - your observations are very good. The overall outer diameter is 3.5" - this is as large as you can get under a C-2 cover without shimming it out. After some discussion, Wayne forced my hand to build another prototype design with a 3" chambered section, followed by a 2.5" flowpath resonator section. The reasoning is that the exhaust will lose some velocity as it heads farther away from the engine, & by the time it reaches the resonator section, the 2.5" core should not kill too much HP. The 2.5" resonator will also knock-out quite a bit of dBA's vs a 3" core. Besides, in order to fit any packing material around a 3" core, the body diameter needs to go to 4", & that would be a real problem here. These are going to flow just fine - light years better than the OE sidepipes that had 1-5/8" cores. The small louvers do NOT essentially reduce the core size to 2.5" - not by any stretch. With smooth perforations, the tone would be quite different & they would be much louder. My prediction is that there will be some loss in HP vs open exhaust, but the loss will be fairly minimal. Wayne - can't wait to hear the results. My prediction is that these are going to sound fabulous.
And Joe - yes you were the guy who helped me brainstorm to even come-up with the first VettePacks - you made me think while we were on the phone. Happens all the time when trying to solve an issue.
Eric, appreciate your comments on this. Good explanation on power loss and what I can expect for power gains.
If it doesn't snow here in the next few days I should have them installed on Tues. Again thanks for building a great product.
Just had the 3" pipes installed today, after 10 days of snow and cold. Had them done at my local muffler shop - walking distance away. He has an older fellow that does very good work. This is the 2nd set of sidepipes he's done for me.
Here's a couple of short video's of the sound.
10-09-2016, 12:51 AM
New 3'' Sidepipes
