Mini-rant; If This Is True ...
#21
Race Director
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Root, I agree with you 100%. What chaps my hide is when a surviving rare car is cut up for an 'upgrade'. A moron on the GTO forum a year or so back found a one owner, low miles and mint, all numbers matching triple black '66 Tripower 4 speed GTO and scrapped the entire drivetrain and frame for an LS-based, fab-framed resto-mod. Another guy, a friend of mine, had a mint '67 GTO, sold it, and instead bought a gutted '67 roller that he turned into his fantasy car. That's the 'right' way to do it. Although it is true that the better car you start with, the better the end-product will be, custom or stock. I dread what will happen to my GTO's after I'm gone: LS engines and 20" wheels, no doubt! My pet peeve is that a lot of these cars are 'upgraded' by folks that have little or no behind the wheel time with these cars in their original state. They assume, because they are old cars, that they are unreliable, undrivable, and unacceptable. That's just false.
#22
Safety Car
#23
Burning Brakes
#24
Safety Car
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2015 C2 of Year Finalist
I'm 37, and many of my friends are hard core car guys. Those at or below my age generally have no interest in correct restoration. I am probably the most bent on originality among all of them, and I care nothing about having my cars judged or even showing them. I like to work on old cars and drive them. I've been an NCRS member since I was 19 but mostly for the publications and forum. This year I let my membership lapse and I have no plans to renew it (nothing against the NCRS...it's just not fun for me).
There is no way around it, a lot more highly correct and/or original cars will go the direction of that nice blue 66 because that is what newer buyers want.
There is no way around it, a lot more highly correct and/or original cars will go the direction of that nice blue 66 because that is what newer buyers want.
#25
Safety Car
I am probably the most bent on originality among all of them, and I care nothing about having my cars judged or even showing them. I like to work on old cars and drive them. I've been an NCRS member since I was 19 but mostly for the publications and forum. This year I let my membership lapse and I have no plans to renew it (nothing against the NCRS...it's just not fun for me).
There is no way around it, a lot more highly correct and/or original cars will go the direction of that nice blue 66 because that is what newer buyers want.
Last edited by Mikado463; 12-13-2016 at 03:39 PM.
#26
Burning Brakes
There are literally thousands of nice original or restored C1 and C2 plain Jane corvettes. The number of these restomod conversions has to be small in comparison.
#27
Team Owner
One of these guys just finished his THIRD personal restomod Corvette...
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; 12-13-2016 at 03:59 PM.
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jerry gollnick (12-14-2016)
#28
Burning Brakes
What did they start with, project car or clean unmodified? I'd be curious to know as no one seems to mind the project conversions.
#29
Team Owner
If we define project broadly (not a burnt out relic basket case) they were projects and not clean, unmodified.
All three simply gorgeous examples...
All three simply gorgeous examples...
#30
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Mar 2010
Location: The Golden Triangle, Florida
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2023 C2 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
St. Jude Donor '20-'21-'22-'23-'24
Guys who cut into a nice numbers matching car like that aren't really "Corvette guys". They just want something to impress their friends
OTOH, if you dial back the hands of time a generation, there were probably 60 and 70 year old guys like us horrified that the young guys (us) were harvesting nice Fords and Chevys and turning them into hot rods and customs. Remember all those lowered, lake pipes, modified engined, Traction Masters, flame painted, bubbled skirted rides back then?
Granted, these cars were only 10 to 20 years old at the time, not 50 like the car in this thread), but the reaction of our elders back then may have been similar.
So, we have come full circle and have become our fathers (LOL).
Steve
OTOH, if you dial back the hands of time a generation, there were probably 60 and 70 year old guys like us horrified that the young guys (us) were harvesting nice Fords and Chevys and turning them into hot rods and customs. Remember all those lowered, lake pipes, modified engined, Traction Masters, flame painted, bubbled skirted rides back then?
Granted, these cars were only 10 to 20 years old at the time, not 50 like the car in this thread), but the reaction of our elders back then may have been similar.
So, we have come full circle and have become our fathers (LOL).
Steve
#31
Drifting
Yep, the torch in process being passed slooooowly & very painfully.
Main reason I post 90% of the time over the other side of the fence..... NCRS.
Sleep much better now.
rustylugnuts
Main reason I post 90% of the time over the other side of the fence..... NCRS.
Sleep much better now.
rustylugnuts
#32
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Nov 2015
Location: Really Central IL Illinois
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I'm 37, and many of my friends are hard core car guys. Those at or below my age generally have no interest in correct restoration. I am probably the most bent on originality among all of them, and I care nothing about having my cars judged or even showing them. I like to work on old cars and drive them. I've been an NCRS member since I was 19 but mostly for the publications and forum. This year I let my membership lapse and I have no plans to renew it (nothing against the NCRS...it's just not fun for me).
There is no way around it, a lot more highly correct and/or original cars will go the direction of that nice blue 66 because that is what newer buyers want.
There is no way around it, a lot more highly correct and/or original cars will go the direction of that nice blue 66 because that is what newer buyers want.
If you don't restomod it, most C1s and C2s will soon go the way of most original model A, model T, and 40s and 50s anything that are not in demand by most young men under 50. They want the car they had as a teenager and that actually handles less like a buckboard and has more power than today's V-6. I'm going to get it now.
I have 3 - 60s era cars because I was a teen in the 60s. I will put up with il handling and somewhat underpowered (to today's standards) cars because I love the old things, not because they are fast or handle great.
Old cars need the love and attention of an Old Man, and the Old Man needs the attention of an Old Woman. Once the Old Man is gone, so is the love for the Old car. Don't expect the young man to love your 50 year old car or your 70 year old woman the way you do.
Love the one you are with!!! The youth will love theirs.
#34
Le Mans Master
I'm 36, on my second 69 corvette and the 64, obviously. The mid year is the pinnacle of styling for me. I love original looks but I don't mind LS conversions. It seems like 10 years ago people built more LS cars that looked and sat more or less stock. Now it's all wild deviations. I like the "mod" in a restomod to be hidden- even at the expense of total grip!
I have always had driver cars, numbers matching 300hp 327 and 350's, and I drive them all like God and Zora intended. I was 19 when I bought my first.
That said, I've never had a "fully" restored chassis OR a higher output engine. Or a 383/400ci or a big block. So while I "liked" the silky power of my ls3 in the 2009, I would be inclined to put a stoker in my 64 and a rebuilt front end way before I restomodded it. Am I making sense? Restomods can be great, but I'm not throwing the baby out with the bath water when I don't even know what the car was like new.
I have always had driver cars, numbers matching 300hp 327 and 350's, and I drive them all like God and Zora intended. I was 19 when I bought my first.
That said, I've never had a "fully" restored chassis OR a higher output engine. Or a 383/400ci or a big block. So while I "liked" the silky power of my ls3 in the 2009, I would be inclined to put a stoker in my 64 and a rebuilt front end way before I restomodded it. Am I making sense? Restomods can be great, but I'm not throwing the baby out with the bath water when I don't even know what the car was like new.
Last edited by ChattanoogaJSB; 12-13-2016 at 09:12 PM.
#35
This particular car's original claims notwithstanding there are a cadre of well-heeled, youngish, professional-career, buyers that don't give two craps about your funky carbureated, vibrating points regulator, antiquated ignition system, marginal exhaust, hard-to-stop, turd-for-a-sound-system, high maintenance original cars...but they love the body style. They'll pay prodigious sums for what they want. They could care less if that requires resurrecting a basket case or dismantling a survivor car.
That's from the buyer's side, from the restorers side they can build a restomod that'll fetch $140K+ at auction and clear maybe $50K versus restoring an original car and be underwater-to-flush investment-wise. (Unless it is some rare car with racing heritage or other desired provenance.)
So, if you park your emotions, and look at the buyers market and economics the light bulb will go on...
My 93% Regional Second Flight, base motor, split window might, on a good day with prevailing winds, bring $95K at auction. Restomod it for $80K, and you have a car that may well bring $210K+. Sell off the original drivetrain, wheels, tire tub, etc. for $15K-$20K (maybe more) and do the math on the bottom line.
A split window restomod at Mecum Kissimmee last year went for $190K and would have gone for more if the owner had gotten along a bit better with the Mecum folks (long story there)...
This is an increasing trend folks...and 'project cars' with good bones that make economic sense to restomod are not nearly as prolific as some think....so more and more original cars will go 'under the axe'.
I'm not crazy about it either but completely understand the trend.
That's from the buyer's side, from the restorers side they can build a restomod that'll fetch $140K+ at auction and clear maybe $50K versus restoring an original car and be underwater-to-flush investment-wise. (Unless it is some rare car with racing heritage or other desired provenance.)
So, if you park your emotions, and look at the buyers market and economics the light bulb will go on...
My 93% Regional Second Flight, base motor, split window might, on a good day with prevailing winds, bring $95K at auction. Restomod it for $80K, and you have a car that may well bring $210K+. Sell off the original drivetrain, wheels, tire tub, etc. for $15K-$20K (maybe more) and do the math on the bottom line.
A split window restomod at Mecum Kissimmee last year went for $190K and would have gone for more if the owner had gotten along a bit better with the Mecum folks (long story there)...
This is an increasing trend folks...and 'project cars' with good bones that make economic sense to restomod are not nearly as prolific as some think....so more and more original cars will go 'under the axe'.
I'm not crazy about it either but completely understand the trend.
Unless they are the spoiled rich brat that just doesn't care .
#36
Le Mans Master
This particular car's original claims notwithstanding there are a cadre of well-heeled, youngish, professional-career, buyers that don't give two craps about your funky carbureated, vibrating points regulator, antiquated ignition system, marginal exhaust, hard-to-stop, turd-for-a-sound-system, high maintenance original cars...but they love the body style. They'll pay prodigious sums for what they want. They could care less if that requires resurrecting a basket case or dismantling a survivor car.
That's from the buyer's side, from the restorers side they can build a restomod that'll fetch $140K+ at auction and clear maybe $50K versus restoring an original car and be underwater-to-flush investment-wise. (Unless it is some rare car with racing heritage or other desired provenance.)
So, if you park your emotions, and look at the buyers market and economics the light bulb will go on...
My 93% Regional Second Flight, base motor, split window might, on a good day with prevailing winds, bring $95K at auction. Restomod it for $80K, and you have a car that may well bring $210K+. Sell off the original drivetrain, wheels, tire tub, etc. for $15K-$20K (maybe more) and do the math on the bottom line.
A split window restomod at Mecum Kissimmee last year went for $190K and would have gone for more if the owner had gotten along a bit better with the Mecum folks (long story there)...
This is an increasing trend folks...and 'project cars' with good bones that make economic sense to restomod are not nearly as prolific as some think....so more and more original cars will go 'under the axe'.
I'm not crazy about it either but completely understand the trend.
That's from the buyer's side, from the restorers side they can build a restomod that'll fetch $140K+ at auction and clear maybe $50K versus restoring an original car and be underwater-to-flush investment-wise. (Unless it is some rare car with racing heritage or other desired provenance.)
So, if you park your emotions, and look at the buyers market and economics the light bulb will go on...
My 93% Regional Second Flight, base motor, split window might, on a good day with prevailing winds, bring $95K at auction. Restomod it for $80K, and you have a car that may well bring $210K+. Sell off the original drivetrain, wheels, tire tub, etc. for $15K-$20K (maybe more) and do the math on the bottom line.
A split window restomod at Mecum Kissimmee last year went for $190K and would have gone for more if the owner had gotten along a bit better with the Mecum folks (long story there)...
This is an increasing trend folks...and 'project cars' with good bones that make economic sense to restomod are not nearly as prolific as some think....so more and more original cars will go 'under the axe'.
I'm not crazy about it either but completely understand the trend.
They want to build a modern version of the C2... but want to retain some of the charm of the original vehicle.
It's actually a great trend in my opinion...because it's bringing in the enthusiasts of the future. Guys with money who want something more...but respectful of the old school crowd who doesn't want to change a thing.
#37
Racer
47, so still old now I suppose but took me till my low 40s to have the $$ to add the classic cars to my fast cars or would have sooner. I took the middle road so I could have cars I could enjoy and drive rather than worry about them or the value too much. I bought my caddy 3 years ago and while mostly restored (when I bought it body/interior was done but most else a mess still) and I got it at a price that reflects it needed finishing and today is worth easily what I have in it and is a great driver for me that is an all 1960 experience, and it is fantastic. It is not the original color or interior etc. It looks better than it likely did originally. Engine, trans, etc are original so its still the same car. But original was not a nice shade of red (Audi/VW red darker than caddy red that the last owner liked, he was right), it was white, or had the super cool/incredibly rare caddy bucket seats (maybe 50 Biarritz had them), two tone interior or the great add of Cadillac 58 Sabre wheels. It was modified with all original caddy to look better. I did update the ignition system and to an alternator though (however it looks like the generator it replaced).
My vette is a resto mod(ish) but based on a very marginal non numbers anything car. So I have a restored 60 with newer 60 vette parts for everything in it that looks original until you hear it. Its a dual carb big V8 modern crate motor. I didn't pay a lot for it at all at Mecum Kissimmee this year so I have a fantastic looking, driving car with less worry but still has original steering and suspension so the car besides having a big high hp engine feels like a regular vette handling wise so has the full old car experience. I upped the looks in my opinion by adding the red coves to the all white car but did it as a carefully selected and applied film so reversible easily and I love it even if that combo was not a correct 60 combo.
For fast I stick to modern cars for occasional track and daily. Audi R8GT and a 911 and a line of previous Audi RS cars. So I guess my view is I have the old cars for the old car experience and design/looks and stick to modern cars for the reliability and real speed/handling. I wanted to share the design of the old cars with the world to show kids they exist/existed. Love it. My first car memories I went wow for and there after always wanted one were a pair of 59 caddy coupes chained to the ground in front of a vacuum cleaner store in my hometown.
I do take offense inside my head to taking a restored original car and tearing it apart to mod. There are plenty to start with. I get the economics but I suppose the saving grace is there are a ton of them. My R8 is a GT that Audi made 333 of and only 90 in the US. I met a guy who dropped the twin turbos into one...why...just buy a regular V10 and destroy it instead of the rare car. I am still after a 63 split window but again want a car I can drive and enjoy but want to appreciate the original design. Not perfect but has been gone through or older restoration. I have no interest in a resto mod on that. One day.
My vette is a resto mod(ish) but based on a very marginal non numbers anything car. So I have a restored 60 with newer 60 vette parts for everything in it that looks original until you hear it. Its a dual carb big V8 modern crate motor. I didn't pay a lot for it at all at Mecum Kissimmee this year so I have a fantastic looking, driving car with less worry but still has original steering and suspension so the car besides having a big high hp engine feels like a regular vette handling wise so has the full old car experience. I upped the looks in my opinion by adding the red coves to the all white car but did it as a carefully selected and applied film so reversible easily and I love it even if that combo was not a correct 60 combo.
For fast I stick to modern cars for occasional track and daily. Audi R8GT and a 911 and a line of previous Audi RS cars. So I guess my view is I have the old cars for the old car experience and design/looks and stick to modern cars for the reliability and real speed/handling. I wanted to share the design of the old cars with the world to show kids they exist/existed. Love it. My first car memories I went wow for and there after always wanted one were a pair of 59 caddy coupes chained to the ground in front of a vacuum cleaner store in my hometown.
I do take offense inside my head to taking a restored original car and tearing it apart to mod. There are plenty to start with. I get the economics but I suppose the saving grace is there are a ton of them. My R8 is a GT that Audi made 333 of and only 90 in the US. I met a guy who dropped the twin turbos into one...why...just buy a regular V10 and destroy it instead of the rare car. I am still after a 63 split window but again want a car I can drive and enjoy but want to appreciate the original design. Not perfect but has been gone through or older restoration. I have no interest in a resto mod on that. One day.
Last edited by mmaturo; 12-13-2016 at 10:11 PM.
#38
Burning Brakes
#39
Race Director
#40
Race Director
Member Since: Mar 2001
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2023 C1 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2015 C1 of the Year Finalist
Nothing like any of the above will happen to the 56. When I get to the point that I can no longer drive and abuse it, I'm taking it out in a field, pour gasoline all over it and light it.
NONE, repeat, NONE of my kids get the cars!
NONE, repeat, NONE of my kids get the cars!