PierreOlivier

Hi,

I am really interested in this car and would like to have someone inspect it for me:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222380097199?ul_noapp=true

It is located in Pinellas Park, Fl.

I will pay $100 for a thorough inspection; I don't want any surprises.

Please email me if you are interested.

Regards,

Pierre Olivier

Bluestripe67

You need an experienced C-2 person to go over the car. Even the E-bay pics are really poor. Only thing I saw was the incorrect valve cover bolts. Externally, it's nice looking. Dennis

Brian VH McHale

$100.00 for a through inspection, good luck. JMHO

PierreOlivier

I am assuming you won't be volunteering

If someone wants more let me know. I obviously want an experienced c2 person.

Critter1

I think that car belonged to a friend of mine a few years ago. If it's the same car, it doesn't have the original block.

PierreOlivier

Interesting!!! It says numbers matching. A lie? Say it ain't so Obviously another reason for an inspection.

Critter1

"Numbers matching" doesn't necessarily mean that the stamp characters are the originals. Many used Corvette dealers use that term if the block has been restamped and they don't want the liability of saying it's the original.

If it's the same car that I know, it does have a nice body.

The previous owner came to several local car shows.

vettebuyer6369

Numbers matching doesn't mean original. Might be, might not.

PierreOlivier

Really? I can see if the original engine was restamped because it was decked but numbers matching engine and transmission-wise has always meant that to me.

hope2

This car sold in November for $50,000 on ebay. Edit: Same seller, buyer had over 1,000 feedbacks

Velox

Numbers matching is just a gimmick catch-phrase that excites buyers into thinking they have found the "real deal." A born-with original block car would be "numbers matching" obviously, but many blocks are created (restamped) to APPEAR numbers matching for various reasons many of which relate to money. "Restoration engines" are often created for cars that have documentation but lost the engine along the way, these if done correctly can do well judging, can be Top Flight cars. A member of this forum had a well documented L71 but with an obviously restamped block, he was determined to convince the world that the engine MIGHT BE the original one, it was just restamped along the way. If it is important to you to verify originality of an engine pad there are experts that can do this with high accuracy (Google CCAS Al Grenning for example). The pad photo below is from a "numbers matching" car, the VIN derivative stamp has the same numbers as the car's VIN. Unfortunately the stamper missed most of the stamping classes and had the format, positions, fonts all wrong. So this photo is of a numbers matching car but an obviously restamped engine in the car. Hope that helps.

vettebuyer6369

A lot of people make that mistake. Numbers matching means the numbers on the pad "match" the car's VIN. They might match because it's original. Or, the numbers might match because someone restamped them to match.

But then again, the high seller at Barrett Jackson right now is a 1958 Corvette that sold for $101,000. It was described as "numbers matching."

1958 Corvette engines don't even have a VIN on them to "match" anything.

So, never assume you are receiving correct information based on terms that people manipulate to serve their purposes.

PierreOlivier

I have owned a number of C2's. Sadly I always assume that things aren't true because more often or not they aren't. My main concern with true "numbers matching" is its affect on the price. I am ok with a non-matching well sorted out car as long as I am not paying the premium for the true matching. I am in California and need to have a knowledgeable C2 person inspect the car so that I can be assured that I want the car and that I am getting what I am paying for. If this car has a restamp then I will factor that into my offer if I make one. I do appreciate everyone's input whether positive or negative.

rich5962

Pierre,

A thorough pre-purchase inspection of any Corvette is quite time consuming for the inspector. I doubt if you will get anyone to take on that task based on your offer. Please don't take this as criticism, but merely a educational example of what a PPI entails for the person you will entrust with the task. The following is a example of many PPI's that I have performed in the past here in Florida. BTW, I live over 3 hours away from Pinellas Park, and have performed PPI's over on the west coast in the past. It makes for a long day. I do not do this any longer so this is NOT a solicitation in any way.

Here is a example of a "day in the life" of a Pre-purchase inspector.....

Firstly, it is imperative that you contact the seller and get detailed photos of the Vin and Trim tags showing details of their data and attaching rivets. Details of the engine cast# and cast date along with macro photos of the engine stamp pad. The transmission and rear differential data with photos will enhance any inspection as well. These may not be important to some prospective buyers but can help with decisions. In addition to the above, it is most import to verify Title. Request a image of the vin# block on it to ensure there are no mismatching characters to the actual vin plate. A common mismatch is the "S" and "5", a syndrome that can cloud any auto purchase. Horror stories abound regarding a simple character mismatch or other vin# mismatches which do not get discovered until after the sale at the buyers DMV office.

Another aspect of importance. If the Title is from out-of-state, I highly recommend that you take that number through the National Database system to verify there are no underlying issues. Do NOT entrust that the seller has verified this beforehand. As a prospective buyer it will ultimately be your responsibility so best to take this on yourself long before any further inspection activity.

You should send these to the PP inspector for review and discuss the information in detail. Any negatives regarding these primary detailed items should be carefully reviewed. It is here that you will then make a decision to move forward with a paid physical inspection of the car.......or not. In the past, I have spent a short time via emails and phone calls to review this pre-appointment data with buyers for one reason, to save them a substantial fee, and myself a wasted trip well before a physical inspection. Some PPI's won't consider this and will travel to the site then discover these showstoppers, then charge the PPI buyer for their mistakes.

So if all of the above now leans towards a appointment to physically inspect the car, I then would contact the seller and setup a day/time for the task. Ideally I want the car up on a lift for detailed chassis inspection and wheel removal for brake and suspension inspection. If the seller cannot arrange this, I request floor jack and jack stands be available to get under the car. If not available, I take my own equipment in my truck. I also bring pads to protect the jacking points, etc.

At day of appointment I gather my cameras(always take a backup), books, tools, inspection gadgets, etc and head out. Travel time must be accounted for and noted. I arrive at the site and review all documentation, of which always first is the Title to Vin plate. Once verified, I move on to the inspection details. I give the car a quick check of some potential major issues. Some of these can be poor exterior body panels, bad paint, obvious major chassis issues, serious birdcage rust, etc. If I see a showstopper, I immediately contact the buyer to review and suggest to stop and advise if whether or not to proceed with the entire inspection.

For example, I once inspected a '66 in Orlando and discovered a one-piece hand-laid nose on a "seller stated un-hit body car". I also once discovered a '58 with a frame that was cut in half under the seats and box welded, well hidden under a thick coating of undercoating only seen on the inside verticals of the frame. Those 2 were showstoppers for the buyers. I took a early lunch on that '58 PPI that day. The '66 with the HL nose was different. After a quick call, it was decided by the buyer to progress with the PPI to the end. All worked out well as the buyer really wanted the car as it was a rare convertible with factory air-conditioning and had been hunting for years. He had some serious negotiating power and bought the car.

I typically spend 3 to 4 hours of time on the car, taking approximately 200 to 300 photographs of the car and of macro photos of any important details, and if any, noticeable flaws which should be noted and discussed later. It would be too long to list details each subsection here, but I'd split the inspection into 6 categories...... Exterior, Interior, Engine Bay, Chassis/Suspension/Drive-Train, Operations, and Road Test.

After the PPI is done, travel back home and discuss the overall day with the buyer and proceed with the next step. Since so many photos were taken, I resize them into email friendly size and send them all to the buyer. I would then document the entire inspection in a detailed report. This is typically a 10 to 12 page document outlining the inspection in the categories I explained previously. I email the report to the buyer, usually late that night. In the morning we usually review the entire inspection by phone after the report is read.

It should be noted that I would always defer being involved in negotiations over price. A inspection of the car is just that, the car, not the dollars. The PPI responsibility is of the physical car, not the market trends. My task was to present to the buyer a detailed view and analysis of the car, effectively being the eyes and hands of that person. The buyer now has the means to make a well educated decision with the seller. Negotiations would then commence. I would always be contacted by the buyer with results.

Pierre, hopefully you can now understand better that a day in the life of a Pre-Purchase inspector can be a long one. But if you are going to make a substantial investment such as I see above, I think you need the full-tilt version of a inspection. A low cost peek and poke type inspection may come back and bite. If you are in need of the thorough detailed inspection, you could contact the NCRS Florida Chapter to get referrals. A list of contacts is listed there at www.ncrsfl.org at the Contacts link. There may be someone close to Tampa/Pinellas Park that could help you. For the above type inspections, you should expect much more than your approximation. Substantial travel would add more to that.

Good luck on the Hunt.....

Rich

bluestreak63

Might I suggest contacting the local NCRS club and see if someone will do it for $100, probably not going to get any takers, and if so, not going to be a thorough inspection. For $100, I would check the car as it sits. Check for frame rust and birdcage condition. Numbers matching from a dealer? 99% chance it's not the original engine. if the cursory $100 inspection checks out, I would board a plane and check it out in person.

65hihp

Rich
I'm not surprised that you're not doing PPIs anymore as what you described here would have to be a $1500-2000 job from my point of view.
I think a thorough PPI can be done in far less detail than this, with 25-30 photos, inside, underside, nose, tail, engine bay, and primary numbers reviewed. Top up and down, engine running, and short drive in 90 mins to 2 hours, and a report 1 1/2 pages in length. For this I get approximately $400-500. A buyer gets a clear idea whether or not a car is worth making an in-person trip to see for himself at a reasonable cost. Depending on the confidence the buyer has in his PPInspector, he may buy based only on the PPI. It is good to know what the buyer's chief concerns are, as they may differ from MY chief concerns.
I only offer this perspective because I think a buyer would be hard pressed to find many inspectors even willing to do the type of inspection you described, unless paid very serious money.

Frankie the Fink

$100 will buy you a 'look-see' and some subjective opinion.

I had a first generation Z-28 Camaro at a classic car dealer inspected by a pro (top Z-28 guy) and he discovered it was an extremely well-done, impressive fake. I got an extensive autopsy of everything, comprehensive photos, comparisons to 'real cars', and, a lengthy follow-up phone call. That $600 probably saved me a $20,000 mistake.

I passed on the car.

morly1963

Spend good money on the inspection (more than 100.00) and save thousand in the long-run.

rich5962

Don, I agree with you. However I used a unconventional approach to PPI's. I basically felt that my time away from my restoration tasks was easier when I did them. How can I charge very high fees for what to me is a simple task. It was a fun day cruising around in my C6, of course when I didn't have to lug floor jacks and stands around, and getting a fee for what I loved to do, which in my mind should be a reasonable cost. Costs using my process and explanation above for a full day would typically not exceed $700 for those long days. Geographically closer inspections typically $500 or less.

Most buyers have very limited knowledge about details and express that and need a expert. In this case, what would it cost Pierre to fly round trip from CA to FL, in addition to a basic inspection? I suspect much more than what I typically charged.

Many have told me I didn't charge enough. But I am who I am and it is what it is. I don't do it anymore because I'm having too much fun tinkering on the cars since my retirement 6 months ago.

Rich
PS Hope you had a good time out here last week and made it home safely.

dahogan

Before the start of my hunt and within days of deciding to buy a midyear, I started looking for a mechanic and someone to do the future inspection. Three years later, and after a few goose chases, when I thought I found my dream corvette, the right people were in place. I paid just under $100 an hour for the inspection on my '66. It was money well spent. These cars are 50 years old and many have issues. Sellers often use misleading terms and will state facts about their car b/c that's what they were told by their seller, but never verified.