cv67

Speak with Guy over at Manley he would be happy to help out, talk about over the top customer service.
If it werent for him I probably wouldnt have been able to afford finishing my 383..has his pushrods and H beams in it.

GearheadJoe

PM sent.

GearheadJoe

I called Manley and asked for Guy, but they said no one with that name works there. However, they did connect me with someone in Tech Support, and that person confirmed what I thought I had been told when I called about a year ago.

He said that Manley uses the same basic forging for both the 2.0" journal version and the 2.1" journal version of the Sportsmaster rod. When I asked if that meant that the block clearance of the 2.0" version would not be better than the 2.1" version, he said, "Well, not much better."

My assumption has been that when the same forging is used for both versions, the block clearance is identical. So, I'm wondering whether there is some possible difference that I am overlooking, such as how deep the bolt lands are cut in the rod cap.

I think I'll get a sample of the 2.0" rod so that I can check it myself.

Stan's Customs

Now I need to look into one of the many efi systems that are out there..

...on second thought I think I'll start a new thread for this.

See Thread Titled: "Post one pic of your after market fuel injection".

tpi 421 vette

Hey Joe, I got the rods sent off in the mail for you. You can keep them if you want. I have alot of used ones kicking around, so I don't need them back.

cardo0

Ok I just found a large 4.200" bore sbc blocks source. The Bill Mitchell MOTOWN II 400 blocks can be bored to 4.200" (but not a thou more).
So with a 4.200" bore and 3.85" stroke you get an honest 427 cubic inch motor.. And let's you use a 5.85" rod for acceptable rod to stroke ratio.. And for the performance addicts (most all of us) that bigger bore pulls harder on the intake than a smaller bore of same c.i. - double win.

Just had to post for those where accuracy is big enough concern. On the other had the more I hear that 427.7 c.i. it sounds kinda cool. I mean you can call a 4.125" bore X 4.00" stroke motor a 427.7 and still sound cool. Sounds like the 7th version of a bad azz motor.

Have fun with your engine builds is what counts more than anything. Good luck.

Stan's Customs

Good morning Cardo0

Thanks for that information...its catch 22...very little meat left ..or radical a more radical rod angle is the choice it seems.
I guess the block with a couple of more rebuilds (bore) left would be the long term choice...although it would be a 428, lol! Or not..??
Best regards...Stan

tpi 421 vette

There is another way to make a 427. A 4.185 bore with a 3.875 stroke is 426.43 ci which rounded up is a 427. The 427 Reher Morrison sells uses this bore stroke combination

Stan's Customs

Hi Jim..
How much is left to rebore on that scenario. Not as much as the Dart block is there?
Thanks...Stan

tpi 421 vette

That would be the final bore size for the Dart SHP block, and the Little M.
The advantage of doing a 427.65 with a 4.125 bore and 4.00 stroke is you have several builds left in the block

Stan's Customs

Ahhh..that's right Jim.
You told me that the other day...
I'll get the numbers right sooner or later...sooner would be nice though!
Thanks...Stan

GearheadJoe

One thing to look at carefully with these aftermarket blocks is whether they can still use a standard small block oil pan, timing cover, and intake. Sometimes the pan rails are spread to get more rod-to-block clearance, the cam centerline is raised to get more rod-to-cam clearance, and/or the decks are raised to allow more stroke.

For my 383 build, my goal was to retain the appearance of a stock 327/350 L79, so I wanted to use a stock oil pan, stock timing cover, and stock intake.

The "entry level" Dart blocks all accept the stock pieces, but the high end Dart blocks have some or all of the above modifications. I think this is also true for some of the other aftermarket block suppliers.

Of course, if stock appearance is not an important goal, these high end blocks are great. I think you can get more than 500 CID with a tall-deck small block that has spread pan rails, raised cam, and a 4.25" bore. It will be expensive, though, due to all the specialty parts that have to be used.

tpi 421 vette

I am using the Dart tall deck block. With that block, you do need a special oil pan because the pan rails are spread .800. But the stock timing cover can be used, even with the cam raised .800. And you can also use a regular intake. They make intake manifold spacers, so you don't need a special intake manifold. The tall deck obviously makes the engine slightly taller and wider. The deck height is .300 taller. They have a few special issues though. You have to run a remote oil filter. There is no provision on the block for a oil filter. You also need to put a adjustable slip collar on your distributor . It needs to go deeper into the block. So unless you buy a distributor set up that way, you need to have the collar machined off. And the pad on the intake manifold that the distributor seats against needs to be machined from a 4 degree angle to a 5 degree angle. I don't know why Dart changed the distributor angle slightly. But if you don't do that the dist won't sit flat on the intake, and you will probably have a oil leak.

cardo0

I don't, want to step on anyone's aspirations but in my lifetime engine builds have a pace of 'bout 1 every 10 to 20 years. Not to say others can't support rebuilds every year or every six months. Some owners do have an extensive shop and can focus their free time much better than me. Just left turns seem to get in my way frequent enough that I focus on 1 build at a time rather than plan for the future like that with one block.

So what am i doing with two 400 standard bore blocks and a GEN II LT1 block in my garage? Not sure I can explain it but it maybe an obsession/addiction rather than any kind of planning. I guess I bought them when I had the opportunity rather than try to find one when I absolutely needed one.

To be honest though a $2,000 or more block makes re-boring and rebuilding very practical if needed. So if you gonna race it hard then rebuilding is the less expensive option. But if you mostly cruise it then a 100k mi or more life is gonna be many, many years.

Only the owner can decide that for himself. The options of a sbc are nearly endless. Again good luck.

Stan's Customs

I agree Cardo0..
However I have a old destroked 400 that I have had long enough to need the extra room to rebore. Built it the first time in 1984 and one time since. Can't remember what's bored to without tearing it down now...but I do remember thinking I'd need another block when I pulled it the last time.
I think my Corvette will last two more generations...in fact have consulted my son as what engine he'd like to have in it when it becomes his...then his son's ?
He is adamant about it being a sbc rather than a LS..and I was hoping that would be the case, as it's my preference as well.
Now..I've decided I "neeed" a bunch more torque, so the sbc 427 is on the table.
..and in this case I'm having to give a little more thought to rebuilds down the line than I did as a younger man. Never worried about that till now...and it may never be an issue even now, but just in case..lol!

GearheadJoe

Hi Jim:

Are you sure that the cam is raised .800", or is that a typo? If the cam is really raised that much, how can you use a stock timing cover?

When I looked at raised-cam blocks some time back, there appeared to be two available options. World Products has blocks with the cam raised 0.134”, and they advertise these as accepting a stock timing cover. On closer study, though, it appeared that to use a stock timing cover you had to use an expensive Jessel belt drive for the cam.

Dart has some blocks with the cam raised 0.391", but I don’t think they advertise that these blocks can accept a stock timing cover.

Westlotorn

When you consider building the Dart block and making it a 427 I would think about building in one or two future rebuilds of this block and keep the bore small enough on the first build to allow future rebuilds. If the max bore of this block is 4.250 I would think of doing the first rebuild at 4.200 and save that extra .050 wall thickness to allow future rebuilds. Like it or not we have all seen a new engine go south for a wide variety of reasons. Maybe you would not be able to say it is a 427 but who would really know?
It would be a beast and have another life left in the block if needed.
It is such a good block it deserves to have more than one life built in.
If the block can bore safely to 4.300 build your 427 as you could still freshen it up if needed some day.

65tripleblack

Very worthwhile, as the radiator has less heat to shed and engine will never overheat. You MUST install an oil cooler if you do this. I have a 160 thermostat in mine and the coolant NEVER gets hotter than 160 degrees. I have the oil cooler set to keep oil temp between 210 and 240.

cv67

Keeping an eye out on future rebores is good and all but how often do you really drive it? By that time you may want something completely different so dont let that hold your build back
Good thing about big stroke sbc is packaging, and usually lead a long life as theres no need for lots of rpm.

Jim you should post up some about your 450...track vids
Guys its a "mild" build driveable reliable and hauls some serious azz
no need for deep gears and all that.

Cant evem imagine a moderate 427 in the C1-2 chassis holy smokes would that be a riot...nobody would suspect it either

Stan's Customs

Do you think it might be tooo much power? ...in a car like this with a 2004r and a Corvette Correction C4 chassis with a Dana 3:33 rear. It's a cruiser with 215/70 15 tires.

I'm not particularly impressed with the ZZ4 I have now. Nothing wrong with it but...

My wife mentioned that I wouldn't want to build a death trap for my son and grandson.
They don't have the years in a hot rod that I have. I've had plenty of big blocks including 427's, but don't know first hand how a small block 427 compares? Plus there's not much protection if one of these old fiberglass egg crates gets away from you.

Seems like solid axles give a little more warning when they are beginning to get loose than independent suspensions...but solid axles are what I learned to handle big hp with...so maybe it's just my imagination?

Anyway, I guess I need someone to try to accurately describe the drivability of a similar 427 sbc combination. Someone that has some time behind the wheel of one in a C1 or C2...or other light weight car with similar gears.

Thanks..Stan