cramus

Today after coming home from a local vette show I decided to check motor temp with my IR gun. I noticed crank balancer and pull wobbling a little. I've timed car many time and never noticed it. Could have been there before. Just looking for opinion as to if it a problem. Motor is hot. I took mirror to see if bolts looked lose. Appeared to be tight, when motor is cool I I will check with wrench.
Thanks
Craig

Just checked middle bolt into crank was loose. I tightened it up, fine now. BUT should I pull bolt and put lock tite
on it?I didn't appear to have a lock washer, just a flat washer.. is it bound to work it self loose again? Can it cause any damage to crank?

Powershift

Some balancers are just pressed on and can come off when engine is running. Not good. May need to be removed and checked for tightness and keyway condition. Then put back on (hammer and wood block).

If yours is bolted on, it sounds like the rubber is deteriorated and allowing the outer ring to slip. If so, it needs repair or replacement. There are 2-3 places that do quality repairs. Ask if needed.

I guess pulley could also be bent. You can remove and check.

Larry

MikeM

Loctite wouldn't be a bad idea. The oem used an external star washer against the big, thick flat washer, I think.

I'd take the pulley off and give it a smack or two with a hammer just to make sure it's seated all the way back. If it is and the wobble is gone, I wouldn't worry about it.

DansYellow66

I would use blue Loctite. It should hold things and you won't need heat or as much heat as for red if you need to get it off again someday.

cramus

I'll do that once it cooled all the way down. I may even try to find is there is a star lock washer in the AIM. For me that's like looking for a needle in a hay stack

JohnZ

64's with hydraulic lifters (250 & 300hp) didn't have a drilled/tapped hole in the crank snout, and used a pressed-on crank damper; only solid-lifter SHP engines (365 and 375hp) had the crank snout drilled/tapped and used a damper bolt, split lock washer, and thick flat washer.

MikeM

He has the bolt. No reason not to use it.

DUB

Do what makes you happy.

I use the external star tooth washer and torque the bolt as recommended and not apply any Loctite, And for decades, I have never had any problems with that bolt coming loose.

I guess the design of lock washer is up to whoever is doing the job and if they are worried about judging and stuff like that....and that also goes for putting a drop on Loctite on the bolt also...and use the blue Loctite.

DUB

Powershift

Cramus:

The balancer is a press-fit to the crank snout in all applications. So if a bolt is there, its purpose is only to secure the balancer from backing off, but not to hold it steady. If the bolt is just a bit loose (1-2 threads), the balancer should likely not have moved.

Tighten the bolt up (without Loctite) and see what happens (you may have to remove it soon), as it may not solve your problem. There may be other issues at play.

The crank pulley however does bolt to the balancer, and loose bolts here could cause a wobble of the pulley.

FWIW.

Larry

rongold

Bolt or no bolt, the balancer should not wobble---It is supposed to be a press fit on the crankshaft snout. If I were you, I would loosen the center bolt 3 or 4 turns, and try to pull and wiggle the balancer. If it wiggles or moves forward, you lost the press fit---you either have a worn crank snout or a worn balancer hole. The outer ring on the balancer could also be wobbling on the inner hub, giving you the impression that the whole balancer is wobbling--That indicates worn out rubber between the inner & outer sections of the balancer, and the outer ring has moved on the inner hub--That can be fixed with a rebuild.


RON

cramus

Thank Ron.
Seems fine with the bolt tightened. But I will pull bolt to put locktite on. I will see if I am able to move balancer forward. I am wondering if the bolt is able to pull it fully on to crank as far as it should be, or if it needs to be beaten on with a lead hammer?

EAAR

I believe there is a torque value for that bolt. Yes, Locktite is good insurance.

GCD1962

There are a number of tools to install the balancer without beating it will a lead hammer, or other hammer

Plasticman

The balancer can be pull on with the center crank bolt, and does not need a lead hammer. I have never seen a center bolt loosen. I would agree that you are going to find a worn crank snout, and worn balancer (at the crank snout interface).

When a balancer is installed, most times I need to use a longer bolt to initially pull the balancer far enough on to the crank (you want at least "one diameter" of the bolt threads engaged, before pulling on the balancer). Then that longer bolt is replaced with the "stock" (shorter) bolt with the star washer, and the bolt is torqued to spec (which should pull the balancer fully into contact with the lower cam timing gear, or in the case of a C1 with the water pump front motor mount, into contact with the balancer spacer). I have several original GM center bolts in stock, and they all have the original star washer.

If you do decide to use Loctite, clean the bolt and crank threads before application, but I have never seen the need.

Good luck,
Plasticman

cramus

Thanks Plasticman
You don't happen to know the length of the bolt? Maybe mine is to long and balancer was never installed full seated on crank.
Craig

MikeM

I'd bump the balancer back with a hammer but if you insist on using a bolt to pull the balancer back, I'd suggest you be careful. You might strip the crankshaft out.

The specific tools I've seen to push a balancer on are threaded all the way into the crankshaft and the a bolt is turned on the "pusher" to shove the balancer on the crank. This takes the strain off the crankshaft threads.

I'd also agree that if your wobbly balancer is alrady close to all the way back and it wobbles, something is worn. Could be the balancer or the crank as suggested above. If it's the crankshaft causing the problem, do I need to suggest what you'd have to do to fix it right? That may be the very reason your crank got drilled?

If the bolt tightened up against the balancer stops the wobble and stays tight, I'd leave well enough alone for now. If you look for trouble, it's very easy to find it.

Robert61

The balancer should not wobble even if it has no bolt. If it's loose on the crank it can lead to big problems, worn crank snout, worn out key way, as well as he balancer itself. If you can move the balancer with the bolt out throw it away. A loctited bolt isn't going to help. Mic the snout of the crank it should be about 1.250". There are options if the snout is worn a little but I'll refrain from bringing up worst case scenarios and hope there's no problems.

Powershift

I found out years ago not to try and put the balancer on with the "normal" bolt. Not enough threads engaged initially. Had to buy a tap and rethread the first threads of the crank snout, and then use a slightly longer bolt for the final, finished installation to take the recommended torque.

To get the balancer on, I bought a piece of high quality threaded rod and made a stud to use all the threads in the crank snout for the install.
Plus a few hammer "taps" with a block of wood.

Since then I purchased the tool (balancer installer) MikeM has shown. But it is not needed if you make yourself an "special installer stud" to use and take your time.

Larry

DUB

But seeing how when the bolt was tightened and the wobble went away. I would still keep a watchful eye on it. It could be something as simple and replacing the woodruff key and re-installing it with the proper tool or a home made set up like has been previously mentioned....or better yet. A lot of the auto stores have a rent a tool and you can use it and get your money back when you return it...So it costs you nothing at all.

As you can tell...we all here are trying to help and advise you so you do not have any more problems.

DUB

MikeM

You can find all this good information in "the book". Please advise the OP what the worst case scenario is if the crank is worn and the bolt won't stay tight.

If he gets the balancer all the way back and he can't rotate the balancer on the crank due to a wallered out key way and the bolt stays tight,, what does he have to lose.

If this doesn't work, he might get the opportunity to buy a new crankshaft and install it but maybe you know a cheaper way out?