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Everything is perfect but the Frame - Need Guidance
After a long search, I have found a C2 with nearly everything that I want. I am looking for a weekend driver/occasional car show/1000 miles per year car. Only certain trim/engine considered, with a preference for a matching numbers engine.
The body is in great shape, and the vehicle is well documented. But the frame appears to have issues. I have received feedback on the Forum through another thread, but wanted to open it.
The frame has rust issues. I am looking for input on the extend of the damage, and possible cost and expectation to fix. the Corvette shop that has worked on the car suggested sanding, priming, and painting ($1500).
For piece of mind, I was thinking frame-off to address the rust issue only...no other changes would be made at this time. Alternatively...is this one to walk away from.
Preliminary Forum consensus is walk away, but I do have a friend who works on and restores classic cars who believes as the Corvette shop that it is salvageable through sanding, priming and paint and recommends moving forward.
Input please...Thank you! Corvette Forum is the best!
I've seen them a lot worse than that. I doubt it would get appreciable worse in ten years remembering it's days in the rain and snow are long over.
Cosmetically $1500 could get a lot done. If you look around there are still old fashioned rustproofers out there that can use their specialized wands and equipment to 'rustproof' the stuff you can't see. But it's never gonna be show nice, driver nice certainly...
Of course the price has to be right on the car...especially if you wanted to pull the frame out from the car, then I would personally look for a different car.
[cheap way out would be to needle scale and grind everything then por-15 it...]
Last edited by karkrafter; 09-16-2017 at 12:27 PM.
if the frame pass the poke test with a awl and the hammer test then I would not worry about. if it is indeed a rusty mess then the only way to fix it is to pull the frame and replace or repair. trying to paint that frame with the body still on is like putting lip stick on a pig in a mud filled pen.
With that type of rust, it won't be just the frame metal. Nuts and bolts, suspension, brake calipers, brake lines, fuel line, drive shaft, etc etc.
Just paint bombing the undercarriage will not work. The only course of action to have a long term "pain free" chassis is to pull the body and restore the rolling chassis.
If not, while you own the car you will suffer the pain of doing a simple job (say replacing a brake hose) and find the line nut siezed to the hose fitting, and you destroy the brake line nut trying to break it free. WD-40, torch, sawzall, tap and die set will be your go to tools.
This is where the project creep begins! Because now would be a good time to freshen up the engine and trans, paint the engine compartment, new radiator, etc etc.
don't let the desire to have your dream vette overshadow what you want in the end. Get a bargain on this car or spend more on a cheaper in the long run car.
if the frame pass the poke test with a awl and the hammer test then I would not worry about.
I agree. Is it the cleanest frame I've ever seen? No, but I wouldn't write this one off yet until you inspect the frame better in the kick up area as well as the windshield frame. I would definitely expect to pay less for this car than a similar car with pristine frame.
Hard to tell if that is just fairly advanced surface flaking or worse. For margin, I would assume that that interior surfaces of the frame boxed sections are just as rusted if not more. Combined, that frame metal thickness may be getting measurably thinner than the design basis for the frame. Even it the frame is not holed-through, I would expect that it may flex more than a full-strength frame. So there is that.
Secondly, I would go to the "usual suspects", that is the places where these frames most often rot through, like the end of the side rails and the kick-ups, and would take a pic-type hammer (welding hammer) and try to poke a hole through it. Is you can - be prepared to replace the frame or have massive repairs.
I agree with the above comment that the corrosion will not just be a concern for the frame but for all the fiddly bits up under the body, e.g., brake likes, cables, wiring, suspension fittings, etc.
Maybe the OP mentioned it, but I would be very careful in inspecting the bird cage. Very careful.
At any rate, any sales price has to include an appropriate deduction for the frame corrosion.
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While I have certainly seen worse, that looks like more than surface rust. It looks like it's getting a bit crusty. I would tread carefully and do a very thorough inspection in areas that are difficult to see. It could be salvageable, or it could be a can of worms. Use a small hammer and look for rust coming out of the frame when you tap it. Give it some pokes as well. It could be very thin. Hard to tell without getting up close and personal with it.
Good luck.
One other thing: Where did the car spend most of it's life? In the rust belt? How was it used? Alot of them were daily drivers and saw lots of salt and snow and were put away wet.
Last edited by capevettes; 09-16-2017 at 02:14 PM.
I smell corvette fever in the air. Stop. Take a breath and wait a week. The car will still be there I guarantee as cars with that much frame rust are difficult to sell.
With that much frame rust there is certain to be birdcage rot. Derrick came by today after this post and I showed him how to inspect the bird cage by taking off the glove box. IMHO the rust on that crusty frame can't be fixed without taking the body off and extensive work or replacement at a cost of $10k+. For $60k or $50k you should be able to get a top flight verte with no frame problems.
It is the shiny paint syndrome, sure looks purdy doesn't it!!!
On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being perfect, that frame is a 3 or 4 at best. As others have said, there is always more trouble lurking when a frame is that bad. The dealer is only hoping that somebody buys this car at anywhere close to the asking price, buyer beware and be educated.
Maybe if you buy it in the $30-35k range, you could come out after frame replacement and everything else that was exposed to a very rusty environment.
Save yourself a whole bunch of money and a whole bunch of grief and find a much better car to begin with, there are plenty of them out there for sale.
I've seen them a lot worse than that. I doubt it would get appreciable worse in ten years remembering it's days in the rain and snow are long over.
Cosmetically $1500 could get a lot done. If you look around there are still old fashioned rustproofers out there that can use their specialized wands and equipment to 'rustproof' the stuff you can't see. But it's never gonna be show nice, driver nice certainly...
Of course the price has to be right on the car...especially if you wanted to pull the frame out from the car, then I would personally look for a different car.
[cheap way out would be to needle scale and grind everything then por-15 it...]
My buddy, who works on and shows classic cars suggested the scale and grind and POR-15.
if the frame pass the poke test with a awl and the hammer test then I would not worry about. if it is indeed a rusty mess then the only way to fix it is to pull the frame and replace or repair. trying to paint that frame with the body still on is like putting lip stick on a pig in a mud filled pen.
It did pass the poke test with the exception of the end caps.
While I have certainly seen worse, that looks like more than surface rust. It looks like it's getting a bit crusty. I would tread carefully and do a very thorough inspection in areas that are difficult to see. It could be salvageable, or it could be a can of worms. Use a small hammer and look for rust coming out of the frame when you tap it. Give it some pokes as well. It could be very thin. Hard to tell without getting up close and personal with it.
Good luck.
One other thing: Where did the car spend most of it's life? In the rust belt? How was it used? Alot of them were daily drivers and saw lots of salt and snow and were put away wet.
It started in MN, but as best can be determined, it has spent the last 10-15 years in Texas.
It is the shiny paint syndrome, sure looks purdy doesn't it!!!
On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being perfect, that frame is a 3 or 4 at best. As others have said, there is always more trouble lurking when a frame is that bad. The dealer is only hoping that somebody buys this car at anywhere close to the asking price, buyer beware and be educated.
Maybe if you buy it in the $30-35k range, you could come out after frame replacement and everything else that was exposed to a very rusty environment.
Save yourself a whole bunch of money and a whole bunch of grief and find a much better car to begin with, there are plenty of them out there for sale.
Thank you. While the paint is nice, in person, it is not quite a 10. There were some spot paint marks not show. As nice as the paint is, I've been looking long enough to understand to not let shiny paint drive the transaction.
The car checked a lot of boxes for what I wanted. The price was at the high-end of what I was willing to pay, but the frame made me pause. On the price, the car is on consignment. The owner is driving the price.
While I understand that the frames can be an issue for the C2, and this one did cause concern, I did not know how much of a concern this one should be. The challenge is that the Forum appears to be overwhelmingly in its guidance to walk away, but a friend who I also I trust tells me that it can be contained.
Nevertheless, I appreciate all of the invaluable input. Will make a decision soon. Will keep everyone posted. Thanks again.
Thank you. While the paint is nice, it is not driver for me on this one. It checked a lot of boxes for what I wanted. The price was at the high-end of what I was willing to pay, but the frame made me pause.
While I understand that the frames can be an issue for the C2, and this one did cause concern, I did not know how much of a concern it is. The challenge is that the Forum appears to be overwhelmingly in its guidance to walk away, but a friend that I trust tells me that it can be contained.
Nevertheless, I appreciate all of the invaluable input.
My experience (and I dont have anywhere close to many, many on the forum), but rust can look even worse in HD pictures....having said that, I took the frame off my car.....had it acid dipped and then paid for a guy to fix it, full outside frame rails both sides and every body mount point...then got it back from him and still was able to punch a hole in end caps with a screw driver...(after powder coated)....then I bought a good welder and started to fix the issues myself....Ultimately, I replaced the end caps, the sombreros, and some other areas with new metal....after all that the frame was good...but I decided to go modified so I sold it. Expensive education for me....So, from my experience, I would not expect the deal to be fixed for $1500....maybe if you did it yourself....If I was doing mine again, for restored not modified, I would buy a new frame from vette products of Michigan or a refurbished one from corvette usa.....a lot of money, but if the rest of the car is good, it will remain valuable for years...
Holy cow - $60k for that car! Way too much money. I agree with the comment above about shiny paint fever. Take a cooling off period.
Spending $10 to cosmetically detail that frame is wasted, much less $1,500. It would do nothing to add life to the frame. Most of them rust from the inside as bad or worse as on the outside. Frame integrity is a bit more important on a convertible than even for a coupe. We have seen and heard of coupes over the years that had a nearly completely rusted in two frame (and a couple completely rusted in two) and people were still driving them because the coupe birdcage and roofed body were still enough to still hold the thing somewhat together. They drove like crap with creaks and groans and weaving around the road, but were still whole. A nearly rusted in two convertible frame will leave the car with all sorts of problems like sticking doors and panel alignment and if it takes a hard bump it can literally fold up and collapse.
09-16-2017, 12:15 PM
Everything is perfect but the Frame - Need Guidance
Because now would be a good time to freshen up the engine and trans, paint the engine compartment, new radiator, etc etc. 
Run!
