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Old 09-19-2017, 12:23 AM   #1
Paul Hill
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Default C2 trends

Just curious - what do you see as the trends, for C2's - are people moving towards resto mods vs originals..
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:08 AM   #2
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IMO it's both, but there's no shortage of projects sticking to original features.
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:48 AM   #3
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Lower value (if I can describe them that way) NCRS top flight cars are being disassembled to turn them into restomods.

I have personally seen this done with a 62 300 horse 4 speed car, a 63 340 horse 4 speed coupe, and a 65 300 horse 4 speed convertible.

All three were previous show winners / NCRS top flight cars.

I see a lot of basket cases turned into restomods, I don't see a lot of basket cases being restored to original specs. It is EXPENSIVE to restore cars to original that are missing lots of original parts.
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:05 AM   #4
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A nicely done, high-end restomod will bring about double the price of an all original #2 car....all day, every day. Assuming a non-rare car in both cases (not a Z06, or, something similar).

I can't say if the restomod trend is on the increase, I do know they sell quickly (when done right) to a well-heeled crowd in most cases...

Guess which of these 4 Corvettes is worth the least (by a wide margin).
HINT: I own it.
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:29 AM   #5
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I agree with Frankie. A well done restomod seems to have a solid following among the "not too poor" crowd.

A C2 driver level car has to find the right azz for that seat, a C2 restomod has plenty of butts already lined up.

Given some of the prices I have seen lately for #2 level original 64 FI cars, I would not be surprised that some of them get turned into restomods.
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:18 AM   #6
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I've been saying for 10-15 years, that the future for early Corvettes, at least value wise, is resto-mods. I've had more then a few heated arguments with purist/NCRS friends about this, but I still believe it, and I'm not one of the NCRS haters on here, I'm a member and judge.

I grew up playing with antique cars. I restored a 1914 Model T Ford in 69, when I was 15. We had Model T's, Model A's (I still have a 31 woody), V8 Ford's, an Austin American, a Pierce Arrow, brass era cars, and many others. I've seen what has happened to the value of cars from the 20's, 30's and 40's. The value of street rods went up with time, and the value of restored cars stagnated or declined. It has to happen to Corvettes, and most other cars from the 50's and 60's eventually too.

As the people who grew up with 50's and 60's Corvettes, grow older and leave the hobby, or die off, the value of restored cars will decline. Collector cars are owned and loved for nostalgic reasons, and cars from the 50's and 60's have no nostalgic value to anyone born in the 70's, 80's or later. Once the nostalgic value between a car and an owner is gown, the originality value is gown also.

Even the nostalgic value, isn't enough to over come bad knees, owners that have never driven a "stick", and buyers who've become accustomed to power steering, brakes, windows and air conditioning. I see it every day with my customers. One of them is building a full blown 69 Camaro resto-mod, with AC, PS, PW, PB, push button start, and every other creature comfort, because his wife can't drive the 4 speeds in his Corvettes and Z/28's, and doesn't like driving his Ferrari's. I see it in the Corvette shops I deal with too. One is restoring a 55 and a 69 right now, but also just delivered a 59 resto-mod, and is in the middle of building a second 59 resto-mod. Another Corvette shop, is replacing the 4 speed in a 74 with an automatic, for an owner with bad knees, and is putting power rack and pinion steering, power brakes and an automatic in a 61 a guy bought for his wife to use at their beach house.

Some rare cars will retain their value, big brake fuelie's, L-88's and maybe 435's, but the value of the average Corvette, will surely continue to fall behind the value of resto-mods.
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie the Fink View Post
A nicely done, high-end restomod will bring about double the price of an all original #2 car....all day, every day. Assuming a non-rare car in both cases (not a Z06, or, something similar).

I can't say if the restomod trend is on the increase, I do know they sell quickly (when done right) to a well-heeled crowd in most cases...

Guess which of these 4 Corvettes is worth the least (by a wide margin).
HINT: I own it.
Frankie, where is the picture of the pretty girl looking at Mike's girl. Thanks in advance if you have it.
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:42 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbvette62 View Post
I've been saying for 10-15 years, that the future for early Corvettes, at least value wise, is resto-mods. I've had more then a few heated arguments with purist/NCRS friends about this, but I still believe it, and I'm not one of the NCRS haters on here, I'm a member and judge.
This is sort of depressing to me. I don't follow restro rods popularity so I had no idea they were pulling enough money to encourage people to carve up perfectly good originals.
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:44 AM   #9
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I am 40, so I am considered young for this group. I have no desire to own a restomod. If I wanted my C2 to drive like a new car, I would just buy another new car. I personally think C2 restomods look silly. There is nothing that replace the originally of a correctly well restored C2..
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:47 AM   #10
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I personally like to eat my cake. Meaning having an original high end car that has been primitively resto-modded....day2 ish.
Still a time machine, just on my terms.
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:48 AM   #11
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I have watched BJ auctions for years and recall the first time I saw resto mods bringing more money than fully restored originals. Being an original purist, I was in shock. I have nothing against resto mods but always thought that original cars would bring more money.

Today the opposite seems to be the case. Having state of the art features trumps originality from a value standpoint.

My economic theory: I've thought that perhaps the reason they command more money is because restomods, simply take a lot of money to create and therefore sell for more because they cost more to create. Before you say it costs the same to restore to NCRS, my guess is most on this website have not invested $100k into their car either because they restored them years ago or did the work themselves or have original cars. So if you only have $30-40k into it, selling it for $80k seems ok. For those dumping $100k into a recent NCRS restoration have to compete with many others who have 1/4th of that invested in the car is problematic.

Ed

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Old 09-19-2017, 11:25 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbvette62 View Post
I've been saying for 10-15 years, that the future for early Corvettes, at least value wise, is resto-mods. I've had more then a few heated arguments with purist/NCRS friends about this, but I still believe it, and I'm not one of the NCRS haters on here, I'm a member and judge.

I grew up playing with antique cars. I restored a 1914 Model T Ford in 69, when I was 15. We had Model T's, Model A's (I still have a 31 woody), V8 Ford's, an Austin American, a Pierce Arrow, brass era cars, and many others. I've seen what has happened to the value of cars from the 20's, 30's and 40's. The value of street rods went up with time, and the value of restored cars stagnated or declined. It has to happen to Corvettes, and most other cars from the 50's and 60's eventually too.

As the people who grew up with 50's and 60's Corvettes, grow older and leave the hobby, or die off, the value of restored cars will decline. Collector cars are owned and loved for nostalgic reasons, and cars from the 50's and 60's have no nostalgic value to anyone born in the 70's, 80's or later. Once the nostalgic value between a car and an owner is gown, the originality value is gown also.

Even the nostalgic value, isn't enough to over come bad knees, owners that have never driven a "stick", and buyers who've become accustomed to power steering, brakes, windows and air conditioning. I see it every day with my customers. One of them is building a full blown 69 Camaro resto-mod, with AC, PS, PW, PB, push button start, and every other creature comfort, because his wife can't drive the 4 speeds in his Corvettes and Z/28's, and doesn't like driving his Ferrari's. I see it in the Corvette shops I deal with too. One is restoring a 55 and a 69 right now, but also just delivered a 59 resto-mod, and is in the middle of building a second 59 resto-mod. Another Corvette shop, is replacing the 4 speed in a 74 with an automatic, for an owner with bad knees, and is putting power rack and pinion steering, power brakes and an automatic in a 61 a guy bought for his wife to use at their beach house.

Some rare cars will retain their value, big brake fuelie's, L-88's and maybe 435's, but the value of the average Corvette, will surely continue to fall behind the value of resto-mods.

Your comments are very astute and the reasoning has been the cause for my delay in becoming a C2 owner. I started out on the semi-original/weekend driver track, but have considered the resto-mod.

I am in my 50's with not a lot of free time, but wanted something to enjoy. For various family/personal reasons, I took a hiatus from my search, but have recently resumed. I am back looking at the semi-originals, but the resto-mod is in the back of my mind.

As noted above, I have also considered the boomers moving on, and the C2 in its original form not having the same value to the next generations.

Timely thread...Good discussion.

Last edited by DC10; 09-19-2017 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:35 AM   #13
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When comparing restomods to original cars, you have to compare apples to apples.

Forget about original cars that were restored 20 years ago, and for a lot less money.

A high end original restoration of a reasonable valuable car, lets say a 63 340 hp coupe is going to be comparable in cost to the building of a restomod out of the same car.

The cost of missing parts is going to be the same. However, the restomod approach may not need those valuable original parts

I recall a friend of mine, who has a number of C2 restomods, as well as a number of original C1 and C2 cars (yes, I am envious) telling me that his latest restomod 65 convertible cost about $80K, plus his labor.

Restoring that 65 to original condition would have been comparable in cost. My friend usually starts with real basket cases, and he did with this car as well.

With an original car, you cnan spend a ton of money, but eventually you run out of things to spend money on - the car is done.

With a restomod, there really isn't much of a limit on what you can spend money on. Literally the sky is the limit.

But you can build a nice restomod for about the same cost as restoring an original car, or you can keep going until you reach the sky.

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Old 09-19-2017, 11:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jv04 View Post
When comparing restomods to original cars, you have to compare apples to apples.

Forget about original cars that were restored 20 years ago, and for a lot less money.

A high end original restoration of a reasonable valuable car, lets say a 63 340 hp coupe is going to be comparable in cost to the building of a restomod out of the same car.

The cost of missing parts is going to be the same. However, the restomod approach may not need those valuable original parts

I recall a friend of mine, who has a number of C2 restomods, as well as a number of original C1 and C2 cars (yes, I am envious) telling me that his latest restomod 65 convertible cost about $80K, plus his labor.

Restoring that 65 to original condition would have been comparable in cost. My friend usually starts with real basket cases, and he did with this car as well.

With an original car, you cnan spend a ton of money, but eventually you run out of things to spend money on - the car is done.

With a restomod, there really isn't much of a limit on what you can spend money on. Literally the sky is the limit.

But you can build a nice restomod for about the same cost as restoring an original car, or you can keep going until you reach the sky.
Great point of view!
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Old 09-19-2017, 04:14 PM   #15
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There is definitely a place for both originals and resto mods. One point that has not been discussed is that restmods are somewhat perishable from a technology point of view. My 2 cents is that will have an impact on their resale value as buyers at the top of the food chain will want the latest and greatest on their cars. Original cars are what they are.

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Old 09-19-2017, 05:50 PM   #16
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I think there is another category in between the two...driver quality. I picked up my 65 coupe which has a NOM motor, and have updated it with modern wiring, headlight door motors, replica knockoff wheels/red line tires, and a 67 stinger hood. The frame and body are in great shape and it gets a lot of looks and thumbs up. Motor has plenty of power and the 4 speed makes it a blast to drive.

This in my mind is the best of both worlds, at a much more affordable cost. Doing a resto mod or an original restoration will cost $$$$$ and take lots of months/years.

Just my 2 pennies worth....

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Old 09-19-2017, 05:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkC View Post
Frankie, where is the picture of the pretty girl looking at Mike's girl. Thanks in advance if you have it.
Here ya go -- and a bonus one to boot where Mike is fiddling with something looking at all the wrong stuff! I like me some of that haughty lumberjack look

The 62 in these pictures has had two major upgrades since it was built by Mike Coletta over a decade ago - an engine upgrade and an interior redo. There is no reason that restomods can't keep pace with modern technology - just need the desire and a bankroll.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBR View Post
There is definitely a place for both originals and resto mods. One point that has not been discussed is that restmods are somewhat perishable from a technology point of view. My 2 cents is that will have an impact on their resale value as buyers at the top of the food chain will want the latest and greatest on their cars. Original cars are what they are.
I've wondered what 10 YO restomods sell for compared to when they were finished. I would think they drop in value.
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
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I've wondered what 10 YO restomods sell for compared to when they were finished. I would think they drop in value.
I thought so to, and I figured they would be easy to find, and reasonably priced.

NOT SO!

I wish it were otherwise, because I would love to have a C4 based 1957 restomod. I saw one for sale, and when I asked about it, it turned out to be a two year old ad. The salesman that sold it said he wished he could find another dozen cars like it. He has a list of people wanting them.

Again supply and demand come into play, the supply is low, and the demand is high.

They don't sell for what they originally cost to build, but they still bring strong money.

Try to find one for sale; I have been looking for a few months, and have found very few. And the few I do locate don't last long before they get grabbed up.
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:11 PM   #20
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Personally, I hope that all of them get restomodded - except mine. I like it the way it is, but enjoy the resto effort as well - except for the "wagon wheel" look.
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