Pouring White Smoke and ROUGH idle before dying... any thoughts
09-23-2017, 10:56 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Pouring White Smoke and ROUGH idle before dying... any thoughts
Hey folks- hope everyone is having a great fall so far and getting their cars on the road. Its a great time of year.
So, once again I need the forums help.
After getting my Carter WCFB all rebuilt and beautiful I made an appointment to have it put back on my 64. I am currently running an Eddlebrock carb with electric choke.
Yesterday, was just horrible with the car. It had not been running in about two weeks. I got in, pumped the pedal twice and turned the key. Nothing. I sat for about 2 secs, and gave it another pump and turned the key again... still nothing.
The engine was trying to start, everything was spinning... but it just wasn't "catching." No spark.
Finally, after about 10 mins of letting the car sit ( I flooded it I assume) the car starts... and this incredible amount of white smoke pours from the back exhausts. My wife was behind me, she thought the car caught fire. Not only that.. the idle was so rough the car was just about shaking.
The car ran for about 2 secs then stalled right away. I tried the key again.. it ran for 2 seconds.. then stalled again.
After letting the car sit for another hour, I tried it. It started right up. I let it idle for about 10 mins.. then it stalled in the driveway. Once again.. when I tried to start it.. white smoke would erupt from the back.. and the car would shake while idling.
Went out last night, and turned the key again, and she fired right up.. no issues. I even drove her around the block to burn off anything that might have been in the engine. No issues.
This morning... she started right up. No smoke, or rough problems.
The car was idling for about 5 mins.. then stalled. Tried to start it.. SAME ISSUE. White smoke, and rough idle... and I just could not get it started.
I have no idea what the hell is going on.
When i looked under the car yesterday when I backed it out in driveway I did notice it was leaking oil... which is new.
Any suggestions??? Am I looking at a blown head gasket?
Important to note: I did smell fuel the first time it was running rough... but later the second time.. I caught the sweeter smell ( anti-freeze? )
Please help!
Thanks guys,
Jordan
So, once again I need the forums help.
After getting my Carter WCFB all rebuilt and beautiful I made an appointment to have it put back on my 64. I am currently running an Eddlebrock carb with electric choke.
Yesterday, was just horrible with the car. It had not been running in about two weeks. I got in, pumped the pedal twice and turned the key. Nothing. I sat for about 2 secs, and gave it another pump and turned the key again... still nothing.
The engine was trying to start, everything was spinning... but it just wasn't "catching." No spark.
Finally, after about 10 mins of letting the car sit ( I flooded it I assume) the car starts... and this incredible amount of white smoke pours from the back exhausts. My wife was behind me, she thought the car caught fire. Not only that.. the idle was so rough the car was just about shaking.
The car ran for about 2 secs then stalled right away. I tried the key again.. it ran for 2 seconds.. then stalled again.
After letting the car sit for another hour, I tried it. It started right up. I let it idle for about 10 mins.. then it stalled in the driveway. Once again.. when I tried to start it.. white smoke would erupt from the back.. and the car would shake while idling.
Went out last night, and turned the key again, and she fired right up.. no issues. I even drove her around the block to burn off anything that might have been in the engine. No issues.
This morning... she started right up. No smoke, or rough problems.
The car was idling for about 5 mins.. then stalled. Tried to start it.. SAME ISSUE. White smoke, and rough idle... and I just could not get it started.
I have no idea what the hell is going on.
When i looked under the car yesterday when I backed it out in driveway I did notice it was leaking oil... which is new.
Any suggestions??? Am I looking at a blown head gasket?
Important to note: I did smell fuel the first time it was running rough... but later the second time.. I caught the sweeter smell ( anti-freeze? )
Please help!
Thanks guys,
Jordan
09-23-2017, 12:08 PM
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Sounds like you have it figured out.
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Hollywoodheroes (09-23-2017)
09-23-2017, 12:11 PM
#3
Le Mans Master
Jordan,
Typically, anytime you're expelling white "smoke" (probably steam) from the exhaust, you're introducing water (coolant) into the combustion chamber...not good. Could be a head gasket...could be an intake gasket...could be??? I would start with a compression check on all cylinders and/or pull each spark plug and visually look at the electrode area for moisture.
Typically, anytime you're expelling white "smoke" (probably steam) from the exhaust, you're introducing water (coolant) into the combustion chamber...not good. Could be a head gasket...could be an intake gasket...could be??? I would start with a compression check on all cylinders and/or pull each spark plug and visually look at the electrode area for moisture.
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Hollywoodheroes (09-23-2017)
09-23-2017, 12:17 PM
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Did you overheat the car recently? White smoke is an indicator of water/antifreeze in the combustion chamber. Probably a blown head gasket or a crack somewhere in a water jacket.
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Hollywoodheroes (09-23-2017)
09-23-2017, 12:23 PM
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09-23-2017, 12:24 PM
#6
It's antifreeze. Pull the plugs, the clean plugs with a green hue to on the porcelain will be your cylinder(s) ingesting coolant.
I would do this before cranking the engine again. If you hydraulic lock a cylinder you can damage the engine.
I would do this before cranking the engine again. If you hydraulic lock a cylinder you can damage the engine.
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Hollywoodheroes (09-23-2017)
09-23-2017, 01:14 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
Jordan,
I'm the kind of person who always looks for the root cause rather than just a fix for the symptom. It's rare for a head gasket to just fail. .... So you mentioned replacing the carburetor at the beginning, but it isn't clear if that was done just before this problem showed up. If it was replaced by someone else who ALSO ran your engine, I'm wondering what they did that might have contributed to this problem. You may not get them to accept responsibility for causing the problem, but perhaps they would tell you enough to know whether the problem originated with hardware or operator error.
I'm the kind of person who always looks for the root cause rather than just a fix for the symptom. It's rare for a head gasket to just fail. .... So you mentioned replacing the carburetor at the beginning, but it isn't clear if that was done just before this problem showed up. If it was replaced by someone else who ALSO ran your engine, I'm wondering what they did that might have contributed to this problem. You may not get them to accept responsibility for causing the problem, but perhaps they would tell you enough to know whether the problem originated with hardware or operator error.
09-23-2017, 01:22 PM
#8
Team Owner
Jordan,
I'm the kind of person who always looks for the root cause rather than just a fix for the symptom. It's rare for a head gasket to just fail. .... So you mentioned replacing the carburetor at the beginning, but it isn't clear if that was done just before this problem showed up. If it was replaced by someone else who ALSO ran your engine, I'm wondering what they did that might have contributed to this problem. You may not get them to accept responsibility for causing the problem, but perhaps they would tell you enough to know whether the problem originated with hardware or operator error.
I'm the kind of person who always looks for the root cause rather than just a fix for the symptom. It's rare for a head gasket to just fail. .... So you mentioned replacing the carburetor at the beginning, but it isn't clear if that was done just before this problem showed up. If it was replaced by someone else who ALSO ran your engine, I'm wondering what they did that might have contributed to this problem. You may not get them to accept responsibility for causing the problem, but perhaps they would tell you enough to know whether the problem originated with hardware or operator error.
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Hollywoodheroes (09-23-2017)
09-23-2017, 01:35 PM
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I have changed my mind. Check your coolant level. If the white smoke is in fact anti-freeze, it should be low (way low). If it isn't, your carburetor is flooding over and stalling the engine.
If it was a head gasket or otherwise a crack in the intake system somewhere, it would smoke/stall every time you started it. Not intermittently.
If it was a head gasket or otherwise a crack in the intake system somewhere, it would smoke/stall every time you started it. Not intermittently.
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Hollywoodheroes (09-23-2017)
09-23-2017, 01:44 PM
#10
Instructor
Thread Starter
Jordan,
I'm the kind of person who always looks for the root cause rather than just a fix for the symptom. It's rare for a head gasket to just fail. .... So you mentioned replacing the carburetor at the beginning, but it isn't clear if that was done just before this problem showed up. If it was replaced by someone else who ALSO ran your engine, I'm wondering what they did that might have contributed to this problem. You may not get them to accept responsibility for causing the problem, but perhaps they would tell you enough to know whether the problem originated with hardware or operator error.
I'm the kind of person who always looks for the root cause rather than just a fix for the symptom. It's rare for a head gasket to just fail. .... So you mentioned replacing the carburetor at the beginning, but it isn't clear if that was done just before this problem showed up. If it was replaced by someone else who ALSO ran your engine, I'm wondering what they did that might have contributed to this problem. You may not get them to accept responsibility for causing the problem, but perhaps they would tell you enough to know whether the problem originated with hardware or operator error.
My man.. you are reading my mind!! I dumped the "hot rod" mechanic who really just butchered my car. He was looking for a quick fix instead of working the problems.. and repairing the car to spec.
Remember, this is the guy who's first instinct was to pull my original carb and stick on an Edelbrock with electric choke. When i asked him to rebuild the carb.. he looked at it and said " It can't be rebuilt... the metal is porous and has holes in it. It will never work."
I always also hated that this guy didnt even use my key to start the car.. he just turned the ignition and said "none of these cars need a key to start".
Either way.. I'm probably looking at a huge bill. It's worth it to get my car running like it should and back to spec.
By the way guys.. have a look at my rebuilt carb. I feel like a proud papa with a newborn.
Just curious... worst case scenario... what am I looking at cost wise?
$3,000?
Best-
Jordan
09-23-2017, 01:45 PM
#11
Instructor
Thread Starter
I have changed my mind. Check your coolant level. If the white smoke is in fact anti-freeze, it should be low (way low). If it isn't, your carburetor is flooding over and stalling the engine.
If it was a head gasket or otherwise a crack in the intake system somewhere, it would smoke/stall every time you started it. Not intermittently.
If it was a head gasket or otherwise a crack in the intake system somewhere, it would smoke/stall every time you started it. Not intermittently.
Mike-- it is low yes. And your suggestions just triggered my memory that on July 4th.. I had some coolant leaking under the car after I drove it.
Jordan
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VetteRed1965 (09-23-2017)
09-23-2017, 01:53 PM
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Also, you can pull the thermostat housing, fill to the top of the manifold and then start the engine. If you see bubbles, you have a combustion leak. If you see no bubbles and that is anti-freeze white smoke out the back, you likely have an intake leak either in a gasket or in the cast iron manifold. Crack maybe?
The head gaskets I have seen fail did not cause the engine to stall.
Last edited by MikeM; 09-23-2017 at 01:54 PM.
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Hollywoodheroes (09-23-2017)
09-23-2017, 01:53 PM
#13
Instructor
Thread Starter
Yes, I agree... some key things that really angered me about this guy:
1. Having young kids working on the car. 22 and 24 yr olds were replacing my carb and I dont think they really knew what they were doing.
2. Asking him what was done to the car, and having his response as "dont worry about it. I changed some things.. it runs great."
3. Telling me to "let the car warm up" after installing an electric choke. ( This was after it idled for 10 mins in his parking lot.. and still sputtered and coughed all the way home.)
4. Not using a key to start the car. He would pull it around from behind his shop.. and my key would be resting on the passenger seat.
5. Installed my clock ring when it fell off.. and GLUED it back on the leather. AAARRGHHHHH!
09-23-2017, 01:55 PM
#14
Instructor
Thread Starter
Cost wise to do what? You haven't positively ID'd the problem yet. Pull your plugs and look at them.
Also, you can pull the thermostat housing, fill to the top of the manifold and then start the engine. If you see bubbles, you have a combustion leak. If you see no bubbles and that is anti-freeze white smoke out the back, you likely have an intake leak either in a gasket or in the cast iron manifold. Crack maybe?
The head gaskets I have seen fail did not cause the engine to stall.
Also, you can pull the thermostat housing, fill to the top of the manifold and then start the engine. If you see bubbles, you have a combustion leak. If you see no bubbles and that is anti-freeze white smoke out the back, you likely have an intake leak either in a gasket or in the cast iron manifold. Crack maybe?
The head gaskets I have seen fail did not cause the engine to stall.
Crack manifold sounds expensive... but I understand what you're saying.
I also go to the "worst case" scenario.
09-23-2017, 01:56 PM
#15
Drifting
It could be the carb supplying to much fuel. Also Check all your hose clamps and your coolant reservoir and hoses. Its easy to over the reservoir and leak at the overflow. We all have learn not to over fill it. If its not boiling over its probably not over heating. Add fluid and let it find the right level in the reservoir. Drive it a few times and let the coolant find the right level. It will pee out what is not needed.
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Hollywoodheroes (09-23-2017)
09-23-2017, 02:10 PM
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Was the intake manifold changed/removed when you had the rebuilt carb installed?
BTW, from your comments you definitely need to find a different mechanic to work on this car.
BTW, from your comments you definitely need to find a different mechanic to work on this car.
09-23-2017, 03:07 PM
#18
Safety Car
If the plugs check OK, next thing I'd do is pull the dipstick and check for gas smell in the oil.
The timing of your problem points to something intermittently wrong with the carb..............like a stuck float or debris in the float bowl intermittently hanging the needle valve open.
Sometimes it's not easy to tell or to translate the color of exhaust smoke, but if it smells "sweet" then there's no question about it.
Is the smoke coming out both exhausts? Block the heat riser valve wide open before checking this.
The timing of your problem points to something intermittently wrong with the carb..............like a stuck float or debris in the float bowl intermittently hanging the needle valve open.
Sometimes it's not easy to tell or to translate the color of exhaust smoke, but if it smells "sweet" then there's no question about it.
Is the smoke coming out both exhausts? Block the heat riser valve wide open before checking this.
09-23-2017, 03:13 PM
#19
Instructor
Thread Starter
If the plugs check OK, next thing I'd do is pull the dipstick and check for gas smell in the oil.
The timing of your problem points to something intermittently wrong with the carb..............like a stuck float or debris in the float bowl intermittently hanging the needle valve open.
Sometimes it's not easy to tell or to translate the color of exhaust smoke, but if it smells "sweet" then there's no question about it.
Is the smoke coming out both exhausts? Block the heat riser valve wide open before checking this.
The timing of your problem points to something intermittently wrong with the carb..............like a stuck float or debris in the float bowl intermittently hanging the needle valve open.
Sometimes it's not easy to tell or to translate the color of exhaust smoke, but if it smells "sweet" then there's no question about it.
Is the smoke coming out both exhausts? Block the heat riser valve wide open before checking this.
Either way, when i get this all sorted... Im going back to the guy and telling him I want my money back. $550 for an Edlebrock and Electric Choke is way too much for something that only gives me issues.
Jordan
09-23-2017, 03:13 PM
#20
Safety Car
