MikeM

This data is based on used cars for sale online.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...winner-is.html

jimh_1962

thats thers yer problem... Never trust the imperial english with data.

biggd

"it's data", I/m trying to convey that you should never trust the data. Unlike some of the cars we are discussing, it's unreliable. Reliability and the number of models still on the road are two completely different things. Just because there are more Ford trucks on the road doesn't mean they are more reliable than Chevy trucks. Sales numbers don't always equate to reliability.

MikeM

This is all true, just like there have been more Toyotas sold in the last decade than any other car.

The bottom line is, everything made today is far more reliable, robust and longer lasting than anything built in the '60's.

SDVette

Maybe it's just nomenclature.... but data isn't "trusted" or "not trusted". It's just data. You can debate the method used to collect or analyze it..... but data is data..

I agree that stats of used cars for sale with > 180K miles isn't a perfect metric for measuring "reliability".. I'm just saying I think it's a good one... and it's better than "word of mouth" stats.

I used to work in the satellite communications business. Reliability has an exact definition there. It's basically the time something is working divided by total time. .99999 (5 nines) is not uncommon there, which is about 5 minutes downtime per year!

jimh_1962

No more audi's for me!

Frankie the Fink

The auto industry has been accused of “designed obsolescence” for years. Heard it first in the 60s. MTBF is the classic measure of reliability. (Mean Time Between Faiures)

SDVette

Yes and there are formulas for converting between MTBF and "uptime"..
Problem is, in a car, a turn signal indicator burning out is a "failure", but does not affect "uptime" (you can still drive it)

MikeM

Some cars don't have enough residual value to make it feasible to repair them so they go to the scrap heap. Even if that's the first and only problem they've had in their entire life.

SDVette

That's true.. I had an in-law who owned a Jeep dealership. Most (80%) cars they took in on trade went direct "to auction" - they did not even try to turn them around and re-sell them. They only had to be confident in what they would get at auction was more than they were offering the customer for his trade-in.

He got me in to one of these auctions.. they aren't open to the public. Saw everything from 1 year old Jags to 15 year old clunkers. The sale prices were substantially lower than KBB or the open market. These are mostly cars people have decided to trade in - for one reason or another.

Just my opinion, but I think that is what makes this stat useful.

jimh_1962

I bet some of these were sold off as parts cars too... It runs but has a blown head gasket, damaged front/rear end collision. We all have seen the cars/trucks where you think "Is that legal to drive?".

SDVette

Yes, and some go to Mexico or overseas.. and some to scrap... it's a mixed bag..

Funny aside: My wife is shopping for a new car.. she's driving a 2007 Audi A6.. A great car, looks and drives VERY nicely.. It has a few minor problems (windshield washer motor, etc.) [I looked at fixing it - but you have to take the entire front of of the car off to get to it!!]. It's also throwing a code - something about sensors not agreeing... I'm sure it would cost $5K to fix these problems at the dealer.

It's only got 80K miles. She's had several dealers tell her they won't take it in trade! In looking at the market, it's probably only worth about $3-4K.. Yikes! It's a premium luxury car - a $60K car 10 years ago!

Another "no Audi!" vote from me!

jimh_1962

probably the waste gate low boost. Thats another item. My son and I spent 9 hours in august replacing the turbo since the waste gate actuator was loose. The only way to fix it is to replace the turbo. 300.00 later and 10 hours problem fixed but then this happened. Waste of time. I thought heck if thats all that happened the next year then good car. Boy was I wrong.

Still the corvette drives whenever I want to take out on the road.

dplotkin

I find this most evident after driving a selection of my relics, say the 56 Cadillac, 62 Bonneville and then maybe the 63 Impala and immediately following that, a Chinese food run in my '17 Lexus LS. The improvements are staggering; but probably no differently than was the automotive progress between 1915 and 1965.

Dan

SDVette

Hers is non-turbo.. The code is P0068:

P0068 means that the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) has detected an excessive degree of variation in the input voltage signal from the throttle position sensor (TPS) as compared with voltage input signals from the mass air flow (MAF) sensor and the manifold air pressure (MAP) sensor. The PCM reads and calculates these individual engine drivability sensor signals and then compares them to help develop fuel delivery and ignition timing strategy. The PCM also utilizes this information to ensure that the fuel-to-air ratio remains constant, controllable, and within acceptable limitations. If the detected voltage values of these three sensors (triangulated) fail to coincide with programmed desired parameters, over a specific period of time or engine revolutions, a diagnostic trouble code will be stored and a malfunction indicator lamp will likely be illuminated


Gaaa! A carburetor sounds pretty good after that!

ChattanoogaJSB

you may find those three sensors (one at a time) are not difficult or terribly costly to replace (versus being scalped at a dealer). Give it a whirl!

Audi/VW make some terrific race cars and some enticing roads cars but reliability is a concern. They seem to feed the service dept worse than some others.

Although not flawless in their history I have excellent results with BMW.