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The hardest part of discussing radiators on the forums is keeping everyone on the same page or in this case the model year. The OP has a 1957 and that (including all 53-59) came with a downflow type copper/brass radiator. This radiator had a cellular core like the one below. These radiators were not very good to start with. The cellular construction was the same design used in heater cores. It is often mistakenly called honeycomb but that is a different design with an octagon pattern.
Harrison Radiator made all the Corvette radiators and you should not confuse this name (GM Division) with the aluminum radiators used on 1961-72 models.
First let me debunk a few statements:
Old Air probably recommended Griffin because he doesn't know enough about DeWitts and exactly what we do.
It is true, DeWitts sold Griffin Radiators in the late 90's because at that time the only radiator we actually made was the mid year 3155316. I liked the Griffin brand because of the press formed tanks but the use of epoxy was often a hard sell to some. About 2001 we introduced our own line called Direct Fit and dropped the Griffin brand.
The problem with these threads is we have many options and sometimes that can be a curse or a blessing. First we have to find out what the owners goal is....Do they want to keep everything looking original? Are they going to make modifications? Electric Fans? Motor Swaps? Decorated bling polished compartments or stock? And so on. Only then can we make a suggestion as to what to use. Can't do that in a public forum. Everyone wants or needs something different.
Griffin makes a HP version of aluminum radiators with 1.25" tubes. So does DeWitts but I found pro-series with 1" tubes to be just fine with solid axle cars. This two row core is twice the cooling of the old cellular design and it weighs about 1/2 as much.
Now my answer would change if you asked about a 1965 for example. If you want the same heat rejection as the original Harrison aluminum unit, I'd go with the HP 1.25" model.
65tripleblack wrote: Griffin has more cooling capacity than the original reproduction DeWitts.
Technically this doesn't even belong in this thread because this thread is not about midyear radiators and the OP has a 57 but lets review that.
We offer the same options. A low priced replacement and a HP version.
Back to the OP. Another question is regarding the electrical supply. Generator or Alternator. The later is much more powerful but you lose the tach drive that's built into the generator. The bottom line is anyone considering a new radiator needs to talk to us first. We need to discuss your goals and what you want this to do and look like. Too many options.
Last edited by Tom@Dewitt; 10-12-2017 at 05:31 PM.
Tom a little off topic in your constriction of your aluminum radiators do you braze it in a vacuum oven or do you dip braze it in a salt bath then heat treat the part? I too work in a manufacturing facility where we make aluminum radiators just not for automotive use
Tom a little off topic in your constriction of your aluminum radiators do you braze it in a vacuum oven or do you dip braze it in a salt bath then heat treat the part? I too work in a manufacturing facility where we make aluminum radiators just not for automotive use
Not too many people ever heard of salt bath! Actually that is how Harrison made the original ones but with the invention of CAB salt bath became obsolete. We have a modern furnace that uses a non-corrosive flux (nocolok) which is now the automotive standard.
Not too many people ever heard of salt bath! Actually that is how Harrison made the original ones but with the invention of CAB salt bath became obsolete. We have a modern furnace that uses a non-corrosive flux (nocolok) which is now the automotive standard.
at my work we do it both ways depending on spec is called out. but after the vacuum oven we must heat treat and age the part to get it "hard" and before I started I never heard of a salt bath my self. its a very dangerous to be around not to mention very hot.
at my work we do it both ways depending on spec is called out. but after the vacuum oven we must heat treat and age the part to get it "hard" and before I started I never heard of a salt bath my self. its a very dangerous to be around not to mention very hot.
The hardest part of discussing radiators on the forums is keeping everyone on the same page or in this case the model year. The OP has a 1957 and that (including all 53-59) came with a downflow type copper/brass radiator. This radiator had a cellular core like the one below. These radiators were not very good to start with. The cellular construction was the same design used in heater cores. It is often mistakenly called honeycomb but that is a different design with an octagon pattern.
Harrison Radiator made all the Corvette radiators and you should not confuse this name (GM Division) with the aluminum radiators used on 1961-72 models.
First let me debunk a few statements:
Old Air probably recommended Griffin because he doesn't know enough about DeWitts and exactly what we do.
It is true, DeWitts sold Griffin Radiators in the late 90's because at that time the only radiator we actually made was the mid year 3155316. I liked the Griffin brand because of the press formed tanks but the use of epoxy was often a hard sell to some. About 2001 we introduced our own line called Direct Fit and dropped the Griffin brand.
The problem with these threads is we have many options and sometimes that can be a curse or a blessing. First we have to find out what the owners goal is....Do they want to keep everything looking original? Are they going to make modifications? Electric Fans? Motor Swaps? Decorated bling polished compartments or stock? And so on. Only then can we make a suggestion as to what to use. Can't do that in a public forum. Everyone wants or needs something different.
Griffin makes a HP version of aluminum radiators with 1.25" tubes. So does DeWitts but I found pro-series with 1" tubes to be just fine with solid axle cars. This two row core is twice the cooling of the old cellular design and it weighs about 1/2 as much.
Now my answer would change if you asked about a 1965 for example. If you want the same heat rejection as the original Harrison aluminum unit, I'd go with the HP 1.25" model.
65tripleblack wrote:
Griffin has more cooling capacity than the original reproduction DeWitts.
Technically this doesn't even belong in this thread because this thread is not about midyear radiators and the OP has a 57 but lets review that.
We offer the same options. A low priced replacement and a HP version.
Back to the OP. Another question is regarding the electrical supply. Generator or Alternator. The later is much more powerful but you lose the tach drive that's built into the generator. The bottom line is anyone considering a new radiator needs to talk to us first. We need to discuss your goals and what you want this to do and look like. Too many options.
I have no problem with your products and use a Harrison repop 3155316 in my 1965 Corvette. You should not have singled me out in your response, and I repeat that if I needed to cool an engine making 500+ horsepower, then I wouldn't use one of yours because, as good as they are, they are made with heat rejection suited to old fashioned engines making maximum 450 horsepower for Chevy BBC, and in the case of SBC, around 350.
My 327 makes about 500 HP, and on drag days the temp gauge would rise by the traps of a 1/4 mile run. I added an oil cooler to take some of the load off of the rad and the temp no longer moves off of 160 degrees (verified) at the end of the 1/4 mile. This tells me that the 3155316 is near it's capacity in cooling a 485 HP engine. Before the oil cooler, the engine wouldn't stay below 180 degrees on hot summer days. I installed a 160 degree thermostat along with the oil cooler and now the engine will idle all day long in 100+ heat with the temp gauge pegged at 160 (verified). I want the cool intake manifold for power production.
In order to reject all the heat that a 600+ horsepower engine makes, a double row 1.50" tube core would probably be needed. Griffin has this option (1.00", 1.25" and 1.50"). Do you?
Back to the OP: Your reproduction radiators for his '57 are designed for straight axle cars which never came with air conditioning. If I were looking to cool his setup with Vintage Air, I'd sooner use a double row core with 1.25" tubes rather than your 1.00" tubes in order to have extra cooling margin of safety. He also is looking to upgrade to a 350 CI engine and again, your solid axle radiators are designed to cool a mild, 220-250 horsepower (net) 283. All the more reason for him to specify 1.25" tubes.
Last edited by 65tripleblack; 10-12-2017 at 06:48 PM.
My Dewitt/Griffin radiator bought in 2001 with 1.25 inch tubes has never had any problem cooling my 600+ horse big block 69 in hot GA summers. Spal fans hardly ever come on. Oh, and no oil cooler.
Love that one so much, bought a Dewitt restoration radiator for my original 340 horse 62. Works perfectly. Can’t recommend a vendor any more enthusiastically than Dewitt’s.
You should not have singled me out in your response
Griffin has this option (1.00", 1.25" and 1.50"). Do you?
Everyone takes things so personal these days. I'm not singling you out, just commenting on what you posted. And yes, we do make all those options but for this application I try to avoid the fatter tubes. Here's why...
When I started making my own Direct Fit line I set a certain standards rule or mission statement. #1 on that list was that "the radiator had to fit the original mounting without ANY modifications". The application for 55-60 models with a downflow was unique. The radiator could not be thicker because of the core support beam in front (Grill side) and the stabilizer bar and frame horn in back. The radiator slides down inside the core support channel and the side supports bolted in. See below
This is a real tight fit and the fatter version can be a problem. I know this because, as stated, I sold many Griffin radiators. When we sold the 1.25" version I would get a call that it will not slide down the support without interference. So my first choice is the standard 2 x 1.0 model that fits like a glove. No issues whatsoever and look at that bad boy! It's my favorite one.
Then, if I need more cooling, we look at adding electric fans. That's because the btu bump from 1.0" to 1.25" is only about 5% increase where the addition of an electric fan can be as much as 20%. Trust me on this, we paid thousands of dollars to find this data. Even another company confirms this with this statement in their FAQ.
Question: Why doesn't Be Cool offer dual core radiators with 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" tubes? Answer: The thicker the radiator, the more difficult it is to pass air all the way through the radiator. No performance gains were seen at low speeds (where it is needed most) and some vehicles actually ran warmer when Be Cool tested thicker radiators in the R&D department.
When someone is modifying the car with a tube chassis and/or removing the factory stabilizer bar you can use whatever you want, but the large majority of our customers what a plug and play radiator because they are using the factory mounting.
Last edited by Tom@Dewitt; 10-13-2017 at 03:40 PM.
Thanks for the explanation. So the question is: will a direct fit stock reproduction radiator be sufficient for the OP's straight axle if he adds air conditioning and later adds a 400 horsepower 350 engine. I assume that an electric fan would be needed with whatever radiator he would need.
Thanks for the explanation. So the question is: will a direct fit stock reproduction radiator be sufficient for the OP's straight axle if he adds air conditioning and later adds a 400 horsepower 350 engine. I assume that an electric fan would be needed with whatever radiator he would need.
I feel it would, and yes I would recommend the electric fan.
Electric fans work so much better than mechanical but this vintage presents a couple problems. The stabilizer bar runs right behind the radiator and lines right up with the electric motor and using a high performance fan the motor can touch or hit the bar. You also need an alternator to run the HP fan, and then you loose the tach drive. Maybe someone out there knows a solution to this issue? Package an alternator in the stock generator case would be a very marketable item.
it is for all the above fan issues we offer two electric fan options. One is a low profile motor 11 amp fan that will clear the bar and run with a generator. This works pretty good but the cfm is only 1700. The HP one is 2400 cfm.
The relationship of HP and heat generation is often misunderstood. Rarely does anyone pull full horsepower, and when you do it is only for a brief burst. So a 250HP and a 400HP engine cruising at 35 mph will require about the same cooling. I'd say the reason 90% of the high HP frankenmotors run hot is a mismatch of components, timing map, and fuel distribution. If you think about it, why would a big HP motor overheat at idle?
Last edited by Tom@Dewitt; 10-14-2017 at 11:57 AM.
Thanks for the explanation. So the question is: will a direct fit stock reproduction radiator be sufficient for the OP's straight axle if he adds air conditioning and later adds a 400 horsepower 350 engine. I assume that an electric fan would be needed with whatever radiator he would need.
I have a direct-fit in my 62, with a/c; but I also run a pusher fan (and a 7-blade flex fan) activated by a trinary switch. no cooling problems
My 1962 Corvette with a Dewitts restoration radiator with a SPAL 16" puller fan supported by two 1/8" x 1/2" strap mounts I made. The straps are bent around the radiator ends and bolted inside the radiator support with countersunk 1/4 allen head screws in the face of the support which allowed me to reinstall the stock radiator shroud over the top of them. The straps and fan are 1/8" from the radiator.
There was plenty of room for the stock fan and fan clutch to keep it all original looking. I used a Powermaster old school looking 90 amp alternator I bought from Summit Racing, and ordered a Delco correctly dated generator tag off ebay to make the alternator look more like a stock generator in the process.
I was stuck in heavy freeway traffic last Summer when it was over 110 degrees here in So Cal and the gauge struggled to hit 185*.
On my '64 Corvette which is bi-turbo LSx based and will be pushing significantly north of 600hp, I worked with Tom and have a DeWitts radiator for that.
Right now he has my radiator support and grill for my '67 Chevelle that I'm putting in an LT4 (650hp, 650lb-ft). This is much more of a challenge, as it's a cooling stack that will go into it (radiator, charge cooler, oil cooler, transmission cooler, A/C condenser, etc) and space in the front of a Chevelle is limited. DeWitts is working on getting everything to fit and was willing to take on the challenge.
DeWitts is my go-to place for cooling, especially with the "odd" things that I throw at him. Can't wait to see the latest creation! If folks are interested, when I get it I can post a picture, though it's a Chevelle and not a Corvette.
On my '64 Corvette which is bi-turbo LSx based and will be pushing significantly north of 600hp, I worked with Tom and have a DeWitts radiator for that.
Right now he has my radiator support and grill for my '67 Chevelle that I'm putting in an LT4 (650hp, 650lb-ft). This is much more of a challenge, as it's a cooling stack that will go into it (radiator, charge cooler, oil cooler, transmission cooler, A/C condenser, etc) and space in the front of a Chevelle is limited. DeWitts is working on getting everything to fit and was willing to take on the challenge.
DeWitts is my go-to place for cooling, especially with the "odd" things that I throw at him. Can't wait to see the latest creation! If folks are interested, when I get it I can post a picture, though it's a Chevelle and not a Corvette.
-- Joe
That's good to know. I hope to speak to tom soon about a rad for my procharged ls 62 project and how an intercooler will effect it
10-12-2017, 04:58 PM
Actually that is how Harrison made the original ones but with the invention of CAB salt bath became obsolete. We have a modern furnace that uses a non-corrosive flux (nocolok) which is now the automotive standard. 
