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Factory Powe steering compared to Borgeson

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Old 10-18-2017, 03:23 PM   #1
Randy G.
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Default Factory Powe steering compared to Borgeson

I have factory power steering on my car. We've adjusted it a few times but it sure lacks "feel". I like it, but I'm just curious if anyone has swapped out the factory set up for a Borgeson unit or driven the two and have any opinions good or bad when comparing them against each other. I have the lighter 327 engine, not the heavier big block.
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Old 10-18-2017, 03:33 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Randy G. View Post
I have factory power steering on my car. We've adjusted it a few times but it sure lacks "feel". I like it, but I'm just curious if anyone has swapped out the factory set up for a Borgeson unit or driven the two and have any opinions good or bad when comparing them against each other. I have the lighter 327 engine, not the heavier big block.
I added the Burgeon to my 67 327 a few years ago to replace the factory PS. First of all, this upgrade eliminates the "dead spot," so that when going down a straight road you don't have to continuously saw the steering wheel back and forth slightly just to keep going in a straight line. Second, the stock setup is 3.5 turns lock-to-lock and the Borgeson unit is 2.25:1, therefore the steering is surprisingly and pleasantly quicker, but not at all overly quick. I'm never sure what people mean by "road feel," but the combination of no dead spot and faster steering adds up to a much more pleasant driving experience. If you autocross a lot, as I do, then the Borgeson box is a no-brainer. I think it's a no-brainer anyway.

Lou
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Old 10-18-2017, 04:02 PM   #3
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After driving a car with a restored stock set up with a rebuilt steering box I couldn’t ask for a nicer set up. There is no way I would destroy a one year only column to add the after market one
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Old 10-18-2017, 04:10 PM   #4
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I added the Burgeon to my 67 327 a few years ago to replace the factory PS. First of all, this upgrade eliminates the "dead spot," so that when going down a straight road you don't have to continuously saw the steering wheel back and forth slightly just to keep going in a straight line. Second, the stock setup is 3.5 turns lock-to-lock and the Borgeson unit is 2.25:1, therefore the steering is surprisingly and pleasantly quicker, but not at all overly quick. I'm never sure what people mean by "road feel," but the combination of no dead spot and faster steering adds up to a much more pleasant driving experience. If you autocross a lot, as I do, then the Borgeson box is a no-brainer. I think it's a no-brainer anyway.

Lou
Louie,

I can't help thinking the dead spot and wandering you experienced might have been due to worn components in the stock setup.

My '63 has factory PS. It goes straight, I don't have to make constant corrections, and it's a joy to drive.

Jim
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Old 10-18-2017, 04:14 PM   #5
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I have driven a friend's C2 with factory PS, while I have installed Borgesson. I can not image 1 objective reason NOT to prefer the Borgesson. Way more locked in feeling. I am a cruiser type of driver.
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Old 10-18-2017, 04:28 PM   #6
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The set ups are two totally different things mechanically and functionally spreaking.

The factory set up is really just a power assist using a hydraulic ram on the mechanical linkage and box. It provides the same amount of boost from dead center to full lock. No progressive feel/ response whatsoever.

The Borgeson uses a modern box where the power is provided internal to the box itself. It has very little/no boost at dead center and increases with the degree of steering input - thus much better road feel/feedback.

Randy - the box Borgeson uses is the same one as you and I already have in our Jeep Grand Cherokees. If you like that you'll love it in your '67! I know I do!

Last edited by tuxnharley; 10-18-2017 at 05:28 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 10-18-2017, 04:41 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by LouieM View Post
I added the Burgeon to my 67 327 a few years ago to replace the factory PS. First of all, this upgrade eliminates the "dead spot," so that when going down a straight road you don't have to continuously saw the steering wheel back and forth slightly just to keep going in a straight line. Second, the stock setup is 3.5 turns lock-to-lock and the Borgeson unit is 2.25:1, therefore the steering is surprisingly and pleasantly quicker, but not at all overly quick. I'm never sure what people mean by "road feel," but the combination of no dead spot and faster steering adds up to a much more pleasant driving experience. If you autocross a lot, as I do, then the Borgeson box is a no-brainer. I think it's a no-brainer anyway.

Lou
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Louie,

I can't help thinking the dead spot and wandering you experienced might have been due to worn components in the stock setup.

My '63 has factory PS. It goes straight, I don't have to make constant corrections, and it's a joy to drive.

Jim
In my experience and opinion what is going on with the factory set up (assuming the components are in good mechanical condition) isn't really so much a dead spot at all, but rather is an over boosted overly responsive condition due to the full power assist at dead center.
Thus, any bump steer feedback, pavement irregularity, lane joint tire tracking, or other outside influence on the steering gear will cause it to be exaggerated by the constant boost.
That feels to the driver like the car is wandering and causes the need to correct for the input he senses.
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Old 10-18-2017, 05:08 PM   #8
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In my experience and opinion what is going on with the factory set up (assuming the components are in good mechanical condition) isn't really so much a dead spot at all, but rather is an over boosted overly responsive condition due to the full power assist at dead center.
Thus, any bump steer feedback, pavement irregularity, lane joint tire tracking, or other outside influence on the steering gear will cause it to be exaggerated by the constant boost.
That feels to the driver like the car is wandering and causes the need to correct for the input he senses.
You make a valid point about the feel of an over-boosted PS system.

I've driven cars like that.

That sensation can be tamed by installing stronger springs in the hydraulic amplifier which senses the difference between what your input is and what is actually happening.

That said, my '63 isn't over boosted; it's extremely pleasant.

An anecdote related to that.... in '98 my son, some friends, and I drove my '63, my '54, and a Lincoln Town Car from GA to CA. Each day we'd play "musical cars" so everyone got a turn at the car of their choice. Every day, the preferred car was the '63 because it was so pleasant. 2nd place went to the '54 and the Lincoln was always the consolation prize.

My bottom line: In good condition and with a decent wheel alignment, the factory PS is fine.

Jim
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Old 10-18-2017, 05:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy G. View Post
I have factory power steering on my car. We've adjusted it a few times but it sure lacks "feel". I like it, but I'm just curious if anyone has swapped out the factory set up for a Borgeson unit or driven the two and have any opinions good or bad when comparing them against each other. I have the lighter 327 engine, not the heavier big block.
Randy, I have a car similar to yours. My factory power steering was in excellent condition, and the car drove and tracked very well, except that when I would encounter bumps, seams in the highway, etc. the car would move tend to move off track. I finally decided to install the Borgeson unit a year ago prior to a 3900 mile road trip. I can tell you that the difference in handling is considerable, especially at higher speeds. We usually cruise at 70 - 80 on these trips. I am glad I made the change - it's an easy install and does not require an alignment after install.

Bob
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Old 10-18-2017, 08:14 PM   #10
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You guys absolutely nailed it. I was driving back from the Pomona Fairplex last Sunday and at 70 miles per hour it was hunting back and forth requiring constant corrections, and kept me on my toes. Very little correction and the power steering almost lifts the wheel away from you. We went through the front end and everything is in good shape, no excessive wear, and even the rag joint is just fine.

Part of the reason it moves around so "freely" is the groves cut in the '57 freeway to prevent hydroplaning on rainy days. Also, the Santa Ana wind were blowing about 10-15 miles per hour from east to west as I was heading south so that may have pushed it around a bit.

You're right about one thing. My Jeep Grand Cherokee has amazing feel, and that's my direct comparison. My '62 was a breeze on the freeway as well, but parking and turning at slower speeds with a manual steering box was a work out.
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Old 10-18-2017, 08:36 PM   #11
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I know what you mean - I am at the point where I avoid some of these LA freeways - unless I'm driving my wife's 2014 Grand Cherokee!! And I agree with you about the Jeep - it is a good comparison. The '67 will never be as good, but it will get very close with the Borgeson unit.

Bob
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Old 10-18-2017, 08:41 PM   #12
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After driving a car with a restored stock set up with a rebuilt steering box I couldn’t ask for a nicer set up. There is no way I would destroy a one year only column to add the after market one
I agree 100%, the posters dead spot was play in the steering box because it needed adjustment. Nothing wrong with the factory P/S, I have it on my 63 and 67 cars and they go down the road straight without sawing the wheel.

Seems like there are lots of issues with the aftermarket power steering set up but to each his own.
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Old 10-18-2017, 08:52 PM   #13
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Seems like there are lots of issues with the aftermarket power steering set up but to each his own.
Not in my case. ZERO issues in two years now.
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Old 10-18-2017, 08:54 PM   #14
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I agree 100%, the posters dead spot was play in the steering box because it needed adjustment. Nothing wrong with the factory P/S, I have it on my 63 and 67 cars and they go down the road straight without sawing the wheel.

Seems like there are lots of issues with the aftermarket power steering set up but to each his own.
for the last car I used a very well known vendor and I could not be happier with the results. how any one can compare a worn out system to something that is new is beyond me.

and can someone please tell me on 67 cars if you collapse the column in order to make that aftermarket box fit how is that not a safety concern. plus you can not buy the parts to fix the column if you want to go back.
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Old 10-18-2017, 09:04 PM   #15
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for the last car I used a very well known vendor and I could not be happier with the results. how any one can compare a worn out system to something that is new is beyond me.

and can someone please tell me on 67 cars if you collapse the column in order to make that aftermarket box fit how is that not a safety concern. plus you can not buy the parts to fix the column if you want to go back.
Installing the Borgeson unit does not damage the column in any way - it is very easy to adjust the column either shorter or longer. I've done it several times as I had to pull the column out recently for other reasons. And there are no parts required to go back to stock!

Bob
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Old 10-18-2017, 09:28 PM   #16
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Wow- if folks are worried about some fantasized safety issue from driving a '67 with Borgeson installed with its 2 piece steering shaft slightly compressed, then they should definely stay away from any and all even stock 63 to 66 models with their non collapsable one piece shaft.

The 67 with Borgeson installed is still safer than any 63 to 66, as it still retains some degree of collapsibility.

Geez - talk about "fake news"......

Last edited by tuxnharley; 10-18-2017 at 09:31 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 10-18-2017, 09:31 PM   #17
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So this can be done and undone as long as you box up the original parts? If cutting the steering shaft has to be done why can't you just install and aftermarket column?

[EDIT] A few posts were made while I was typing this. How far do you have to collapse the column?


.

Last edited by Randy G.; 10-18-2017 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 10-18-2017, 09:34 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by tuxnharley View Post
Wow- if folks are worried about some fantasized safety issue from driving a '67 with Borgeson installed with its 2 piece steering shaft slightly compressed, then they should definely stay away from any and all even stock 63 to 66 models with their non collapsable one piece shaft.

The 67 with Borgeson installed is still safer than any 63 to 66, as it still retains some degree of collapsibility.

Geez - talk about "fake news"......
all other post on this subject the term just hit the column with a hammer to collapse the column is all I read.
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Old 10-18-2017, 09:40 PM   #19
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Shame on me- I admitted to Lou I haven't gotten around to rebuilding my control arms and installing slotted cross shafts for the extra caster the Borgeson wants.

If you don't do this with the swap you will be driving a car that feels "over assisted" until you do.

Not a negative just a word of caution.

Benton
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Old 10-18-2017, 09:41 PM   #20
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No cutting necessary on a '67. I don't remember the exact dimension and would need to pull out my old directions to check, but IIRC it was around 2 or 2 1/2 inches of adustment.

Last edited by tuxnharley; 10-18-2017 at 09:45 PM. Reason: Spelling
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