New "Vintage" Trick Flow heads
10-20-2017, 08:22 PM
#41
Safety Car
60 cc combustion chamber gains about a half point more compression. .. Vintage look coupled with modern technology......what not to like. Also interested.
John
John
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Easy Rhino (10-20-2017)
10-20-2017, 08:50 PM
#42
64's Rock!
Oh how I wish these had been available 6 weeks ago! Bought another set of alum heads that I'm happy with, but would have preferred the double hump look alikes instead. Oh well.
Patrick
Patrick
10-20-2017, 09:16 PM
#43
Racer
Trick Flow.....will Summit Racing be stocking and selling your new DHC 175 heads?
Great product by the way, I've been waiting for these heads for several months....almost bought a set of regular SBC heads, glad I waited!
Great product by the way, I've been waiting for these heads for several months....almost bought a set of regular SBC heads, glad I waited!
10-21-2017, 01:44 PM
#44
Racer
Aluminum heads BBC
Do you make aluminum square port heads for a Chevy big block that are also stock appearing from the outside?
10-22-2017, 08:34 PM
#45
Drifting
The time has come, and our new DHC 175 cylinder heads for small block Chevy are available for purchase! They are being assembled as we speak, and will be shipping by the end of the week!
Trick Flow's new DHC 175 cylinder heads give small block Chevy enthusiasts a new performance option. No longer will anyone have to choose between vintage looks or modern cylinder head power, with DHC 175 heads you get both!
DHC 175 heads are made from premium grade A356-T61 aluminum and have the exterior styling and straight spark plug holes that deliver the nostalgic appearance customers want. On the inside, 60cc CNC-profiled combustion chambers with blended bowl machining under the valves and small cross-section intake runners promote low-RPM torque increases and boost high-RPM horsepower! The runners are finished with Trick Flow's superior Fast As Cast process that precisely duplicates the runner profile and performance levels of fully CNC-ported heads without the added machining cost. In keeping with the vintage design, the heads are available with or without accessory bolt hole cast into them.
Not only that, 40 lbs. comes off the nose of the car! $740.97 ea. with .600 lift Hydraulic roller springs...with or without accessory bolt holes drilled. On a 350, 60cc chambers net 10.6:1 with your average 5cc flat top piston, .040 gasket, and .010 in the hole at tdc. This is fine for pump gas. A 327 will be 10:1.
Trick Flow's new DHC 175 cylinder heads give small block Chevy enthusiasts a new performance option. No longer will anyone have to choose between vintage looks or modern cylinder head power, with DHC 175 heads you get both!
DHC 175 heads are made from premium grade A356-T61 aluminum and have the exterior styling and straight spark plug holes that deliver the nostalgic appearance customers want. On the inside, 60cc CNC-profiled combustion chambers with blended bowl machining under the valves and small cross-section intake runners promote low-RPM torque increases and boost high-RPM horsepower! The runners are finished with Trick Flow's superior Fast As Cast process that precisely duplicates the runner profile and performance levels of fully CNC-ported heads without the added machining cost. In keeping with the vintage design, the heads are available with or without accessory bolt hole cast into them.
Not only that, 40 lbs. comes off the nose of the car! $740.97 ea. with .600 lift Hydraulic roller springs...with or without accessory bolt holes drilled. On a 350, 60cc chambers net 10.6:1 with your average 5cc flat top piston, .040 gasket, and .010 in the hole at tdc. This is fine for pump gas. A 327 will be 10:1.
That is a very nice looking double-hump exterior. It's great that this is now available in an off-the-shelf product that includes all the modern improvements in the design of the combustion chambers and the ports, at the same cost as a set of modern heads.
Up until now, getting an accurate double-hump exterior on a set of modern heads required first purchasing a set of modern heads, and then having the exterior of those heads CNC machined to look like double-hump heads.
The CNC machining of the exterior adds another $500 to $900 of cost, so only certain people are willing to pay the extra cost for the vintage appearance. For this exterior CNC machining, two options that I am aware of are Brzezinski Racing in Wisconsin for Dart iron or aluminum heads, or Billy Goyet in Palmdale, CA for AFR aluminum heads. So, if you already own Dart or AFR heads, there is an option for making them look like vintage double hump heads.
FYI, below are examples of Brzezinski's work on an iron Dart head (next to a red original head), and Billy Goyet's work on a pair of AFR heads (next to a bare iron original head).
All of these double-hump "disguise" heads (Trick Flow, Dart, AFR) have much better flow and combustion efficiency than the original GM double-hump heads. The flow is considerably higher than even a ported set of original heads, and the revised combustion chamber and port designs are far more efficient. My guess is that the combination of these features is worth 25 to 50 peak HP over the original GM heads for a typical small block.
10-23-2017, 08:31 AM
#46
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
Yes, Summit is bringing them into stock this week. I'll update when they have their website is updated.
Last edited by TrickFlowTech; 10-23-2017 at 08:33 AM.
10-23-2017, 09:42 AM
#47
Safety Car
Here are results I obtained from a set of 461s which I hand ported to 183cc intake runner size. I also did some very careful modifications within the chambers to improve intake flow and achieve a more heart shaped chamber. Testing was done using a 4.00 cylinder size.
CYL 3 column shows results after porting to a Serdi 3 angle valve seat.
Handwritten column shows compensation for small cylinder bore to compensate for 4.030 and to add for exhaust deficit because of open head ports without 6" pipe.
CYL 3 column shows results after porting to a Serdi 3 angle valve seat.
Handwritten column shows compensation for small cylinder bore to compensate for 4.030 and to add for exhaust deficit because of open head ports without 6" pipe.
Last edited by 65tripleblack; 10-23-2017 at 09:49 AM.
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Easy Rhino (10-23-2017)
10-23-2017, 12:10 PM
#48
Drifting
Here are results I obtained from a set of 461s which I hand ported to 183cc intake runner size. I also did some very careful modifications within the chambers to improve intake flow and achieve a more heart shaped chamber. Testing was done using a 4.00 cylinder size.
CYL 3 column shows results after porting to a Serdi 3 angle valve seat.
Handwritten column shows compensation for small cylinder bore to compensate for 4.030 and to add for exhaust deficit because of open head ports without 6" pipe.
CYL 3 column shows results after porting to a Serdi 3 angle valve seat.
Handwritten column shows compensation for small cylinder bore to compensate for 4.030 and to add for exhaust deficit because of open head ports without 6" pipe.
Hi Joe C:
The flow results that you managed to get by porting a pair of original '461 heads are by far the best results I have seen for ported '461s. I recall you telling me that you spent many, many hours doing that work yourself, and the results are remarkable.
My 5-second rule of thumb for getting a sense of the flow characteristics of a given head is to look at the intake flow at 0.5" lift. I know there is a lot more to making an accurate comparison of two heads, but I need to refer to a written table to make a more comprehensive comparison.
Just using my rule-of-thumb comparison method, I think that a stock '461 intake flows about 190 cfm at 0.5" lift, and a typical pocket ported '461 intake flows about 210 cfm at 0.5" lift. So, the 253 cfm that you achieved is in the category of "full race" porting. It's also comparable to the as-cast value of 258 cfm for the Trick Flow heads.
Many aftermarket heads for the small block are over 250 cfm at 0.5" intake lift, so a good off-the-shelf aftermarket head has flow comparable to "full race" porting of a vintage '461.
I also think that the performance of modern heads is better than what what the dry flow numbers alone would suggest, due to improvements in the combustion chamber design and the port design. This difference cannot be quantified with just the dry flow numbers, but it shows up in dyno testing.
So, I'm delighted that Trick Flow has made it easier to have stock-appearing heads that contain all the internal improvements of modern performance heads. Up until now, getting this combination required some rather expensive CNC machining of the outside of an existing modern performance head.
10-23-2017, 02:42 PM
#49
Safety Car
Joe,
My results were posted in order to quantify just how good the Trick Flow heads are!
True, my results were obtained as a result of many hours of meticulous work (which I was very happy to do, although not to be repeated). I'm happy to see that a modern design head of similar port volume produce results closely corresponding to mine. I took a gamble with the key modification done in the chamber in a "forbidden zone" which further unshrouded the intake valve. It paid off.
The 461/462 casting has a remarkably good exhaust port which is easily optimized by removing the very large obstruction upstream of the valve seat with a simple pocket port treatment.
The only advantage of the TF heads over a set of well ported iron heads is the lighter weight and better heat dissipation of aluminum, giving them somewhat higher detonation resistance.................
...............all well and good, but for those of us who get a sense of accomplishment in doing our own work, then you be the judge. And, of course there's the satisfaction of knowing that the 400+ horsepower capability (dyno tested) was achieved with 60 year old parts.
My results were posted in order to quantify just how good the Trick Flow heads are!
True, my results were obtained as a result of many hours of meticulous work (which I was very happy to do, although not to be repeated). I'm happy to see that a modern design head of similar port volume produce results closely corresponding to mine. I took a gamble with the key modification done in the chamber in a "forbidden zone" which further unshrouded the intake valve. It paid off.
The 461/462 casting has a remarkably good exhaust port which is easily optimized by removing the very large obstruction upstream of the valve seat with a simple pocket port treatment.
The only advantage of the TF heads over a set of well ported iron heads is the lighter weight and better heat dissipation of aluminum, giving them somewhat higher detonation resistance.................
...............all well and good, but for those of us who get a sense of accomplishment in doing our own work, then you be the judge. And, of course there's the satisfaction of knowing that the 400+ horsepower capability (dyno tested) was achieved with 60 year old parts.
Last edited by 65tripleblack; 10-23-2017 at 02:51 PM.
10-25-2017, 10:15 AM
#51
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
Folks, we want to share some of our initial dyno testing on these heads. This was on a Chevrolet Performance 350/290 horsepower shortblock, the DHC 175 heads, and our street burner dual-plane.
The original crate engine has some pretty sorrowful 8.1:1 compression with 76cc heads. Putting the 60cc chambers on bumped that up to 9.6:1. Two cams were used.
The Summit SUM-1105 hydraulic flat tappet is a 224/234 duration, 114 Lobe Separation, and .466/.487 lift cam. This is comparable to the L79 cam at 221 degrees of duration, 114 L/S and .447 lift. Also comparable to the L46 cam at 222 degrees, 114 L/S and .450/.460 lift. It produced 398 horsepower and 388 ft./lbs. of torque.
Next up was the TFS-31402001. This is a hydraulic roller with 230/234 Duration, 110 Lobe Separation. .528/.539 lift. With this cam, the engine produced 430 horsepower and 400 ft./lbs.
Both cams, compression, and short block are pretty mild, durable and very comparable to what most people have. There are some dyno tests for the 350/290 factory crate engine with a similar cam produces. For now, here's a quick testing video.
The original crate engine has some pretty sorrowful 8.1:1 compression with 76cc heads. Putting the 60cc chambers on bumped that up to 9.6:1. Two cams were used.
The Summit SUM-1105 hydraulic flat tappet is a 224/234 duration, 114 Lobe Separation, and .466/.487 lift cam. This is comparable to the L79 cam at 221 degrees of duration, 114 L/S and .447 lift. Also comparable to the L46 cam at 222 degrees, 114 L/S and .450/.460 lift. It produced 398 horsepower and 388 ft./lbs. of torque.
Next up was the TFS-31402001. This is a hydraulic roller with 230/234 Duration, 110 Lobe Separation. .528/.539 lift. With this cam, the engine produced 430 horsepower and 400 ft./lbs.
Both cams, compression, and short block are pretty mild, durable and very comparable to what most people have. There are some dyno tests for the 350/290 factory crate engine with a similar cam produces. For now, here's a quick testing video.
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10-25-2017, 07:21 PM
#52
Racer
Trick flow...another question...can your new dhc heads be ordered with steam holes to use on a 400 block? Or do you have instructions available to do so ( i.e. What angle to drill at, how deep to drill etc) ?
Thanks!
Thanks!
10-27-2017, 02:26 PM
#53
What carb were you using in your test
What carb were you using in your test
Folks, we want to share some of our initial dyno testing on these heads. This was on a Chevrolet Performance 350/290 horsepower shortblock, the DHC 175 heads, and our street burner dual-plane.
The original crate engine has some pretty sorrowful 8.1:1 compression with 76cc heads. Putting the 60cc chambers on bumped that up to 9.6:1. Two cams were used.
The Summit SUM-1105 hydraulic flat tappet is a 224/234 duration, 114 Lobe Separation, and .466/.487 lift cam. This is comparable to the L79 cam at 221 degrees of duration, 114 L/S and .447 lift. Also comparable to the L46 cam at 222 degrees, 114 L/S and .450/.460 lift. It produced 398 horsepower and 388 ft./lbs. of torque.
Next up was the TFS-31402001. This is a hydraulic roller with 230/234 Duration, 110 Lobe Separation. .528/.539 lift. With this cam, the engine produced 430 horsepower and 400 ft./lbs.
Both cams, compression, and short block are pretty mild, durable and very comparable to what most people have. There are some dyno tests for the 350/290 factory crate engine with a similar cam produces. For now, here's a quick testing video. https://www.facebook.com/TrickFlowSp...5258894536715/
The original crate engine has some pretty sorrowful 8.1:1 compression with 76cc heads. Putting the 60cc chambers on bumped that up to 9.6:1. Two cams were used.
The Summit SUM-1105 hydraulic flat tappet is a 224/234 duration, 114 Lobe Separation, and .466/.487 lift cam. This is comparable to the L79 cam at 221 degrees of duration, 114 L/S and .447 lift. Also comparable to the L46 cam at 222 degrees, 114 L/S and .450/.460 lift. It produced 398 horsepower and 388 ft./lbs. of torque.
Next up was the TFS-31402001. This is a hydraulic roller with 230/234 Duration, 110 Lobe Separation. .528/.539 lift. With this cam, the engine produced 430 horsepower and 400 ft./lbs.
Both cams, compression, and short block are pretty mild, durable and very comparable to what most people have. There are some dyno tests for the 350/290 factory crate engine with a similar cam produces. For now, here's a quick testing video. https://www.facebook.com/TrickFlowSp...5258894536715/
10-30-2017, 11:08 AM
#54
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
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High 11s (11-01-2017)
10-30-2017, 01:48 PM
#56
Pro
Camshaft recommendation
What hydraulic camshaft, flat and roller does TrickFlow recommend with these small chamber heads? I have a 327/300hp engine in my 1966 vette with ram horns and 2.5" exhaust. The only other mods I have done are Edelbrock Performer EPS 2703 intake and Proform 600 cfm carb. I am going to download the EA engine analyzer program before I purchase any heads and camshaft. I would just like your opinion, Thanks. Tim.
10-30-2017, 03:27 PM
#57
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
What hydraulic camshaft, flat and roller does TrickFlow recommend with these small chamber heads? I have a 327/300hp engine in my 1966 vette with ram horns and 2.5" exhaust. The only other mods I have done are Edelbrock Performer EPS 2703 intake and Proform 600 cfm carb. I am going to download the EA engine analyzer program before I purchase any heads and camshaft. I would just like your opinion, Thanks. Tim.
If you wanted to go hydraulic roller, the TFS-31402001 230/234 110 lobe separation cam we tested with is streetable. You could back out 5 degrees of duration with that as well if you were stock with a factory converter for instance.
Youtube has been a Godsend for people to type in duration specs and listen to idle videos.
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jet-tech (10-30-2017)
11-01-2017, 09:43 AM
#58
Racer
Compression ratio/timing
I've been waiting on these for awhile, glad to see they're finally out. I had planned on putting these on a 327 with 10:1@60ccs and a 218/224 cam. The DCR was calculated at 8.45:1.
But, I just lucked into a stroker crank for the motor. With that and 10cc pistons, the DCR would be closer to 8.65:1. Considering these heads are aluminum and have CNC profiled chambers, do you think that I can get by with a CR that high without detonation problems? Or should I plan on bigger dishes or a bigger cam?
Also, with the shape of the chamber, I'm guessing 32 degrees of total timing?
But, I just lucked into a stroker crank for the motor. With that and 10cc pistons, the DCR would be closer to 8.65:1. Considering these heads are aluminum and have CNC profiled chambers, do you think that I can get by with a CR that high without detonation problems? Or should I plan on bigger dishes or a bigger cam?
Also, with the shape of the chamber, I'm guessing 32 degrees of total timing?
Last edited by Drothgeb; 11-01-2017 at 08:02 PM.
11-01-2017, 02:52 PM
#59
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
I've been waiting on these for awhile, glad to see they're finally out. I had planned on putting these on a 327 with 10:1@60ccs and a 218/224 cam. The DCR was calculated at 8.45:1.
But, I just lucked into a stroker crank for the motor. With that and 10cc pistons, the DCR would be closer to 8.65:1. Considering these heads are aluminum and have CNC profiled chambers, do you think that
I can get by with a CR that high without detonation problems? Or should I plan on bigger dishes or a bigger cam?
Also, with the shape of the chamber, I'm guessing 32 degrees of total timing?
But, I just lucked into a stroker crank for the motor. With that and 10cc pistons, the DCR would be closer to 8.65:1. Considering these heads are aluminum and have CNC profiled chambers, do you think that
I can get by with a CR that high without detonation problems? Or should I plan on bigger dishes or a bigger cam?
Also, with the shape of the chamber, I'm guessing 32 degrees of total timing?
What I would do though is run bigger cam of course! The extra cubes will soak it up.
We typically pick idle by intake opening, tq. vs. hp by Intake closing. Exhaust opening not as critical and exhaust closing by exhaust backpressure. Wherever the duration, advance, and lobe separation numbers end up is just fine...even if it looks goofy.
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Drothgeb (11-02-2017)
11-01-2017, 04:26 PM
#60
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '05
TF sent a pm few days back did you receieve?
