emccomas

So the saga of the Hurst Shifter continues.

I noticed today that the car is difficult on times to get into first gear, which is what the original issue was.

I know it now has the correct transmission mount, so it may be something else.

I need to get back underneath the car and see if the shifter linkage is once again hitting the cross member as it tries to go into 1st.

On related news, I am seriously considering the suggestion by many to get rid of the back up lights (which are not currently connected) and replace them with a full set of four led taillights.

I know this has been discussed before, including the technical aspects, but I need to go over the details of the installation of this system.

Stay tuned on both counts.

DansYellow66

How difficult is it to get into first gear? Not sure why but my recent experiences are that Muncies do have a bit initial effort to slide into first - not sure if it's the shifter or by design in the Muncie. I rebuilt my Muncie last year with a Supercase and complete M22W gear set - about the only parts reused were the tail housing and main shaft. Still takes a bit more of a push to initially slide it into first just as it did in the old transmission. Is it more difficult than with your old shifter?

I guess it is possible the shifter could be responsible for this if the pin is hanging up slightly on one of the shims between the levers when trying to move over in the neutral gate into first

Might try to be certain the clutch is depressed fully to the floor before trying to engage first.

emccomas

Significantly more difficult to get into first than the other gears, and it "seemed" to get worse as time went on. I hesitate to say that there is a correlation between the transmission getting warmer and it also getting harder to get into first gear.

The other three gears are no problem. It actually got so bad toward the end that I just started out in second gear.

I haven't had a chance to get under the car and see if the shifter is hitting the cross member (it definitely was before I replaced the transmission mount).

On a related note, the info I got on the transmission restoration was "Disassembled and checked transmission. All internal parts looked good so replaced seals and reassembled".

I do not recall any problems with getting into first gear with the original Muncie shifter, but it was so clunky it was hard to tell. I also did not drive the car much with the original shifter.

Step 1 is to see if the shifter is hitting / binding anywhere.

DansYellow66

Considering your comment about getting more difficult as the transmission gets warmer, that would possibly point to the transmission. Problem with rebuilding 50 year old transmissions is the parts do wear - there's virtually no such thing as tearing down a 50 year old transmission and finding all parts look just like new. Sure, obviously badly worn, chipped gears and blunt syncro hub teeth are obviously bad. So then the task is sorting which worn parts are still serviceable, and which worn parts are beyond being serviceable. Some mechanics are more experienced at this than others and no one is completely infallible.

kellsdad

When you go back under to look around, take a good close look at the clutch linkage all the way to the fork. I had symptoms similar to yours and it turned out to be loose bracket bolts allowing play in the clutch linkage.

Bluestripe67

with kellsdad. Dennis

Kerrmudgeon

I'd be checking over the clutch if I was you. Free play at the top etc.....

With the engine off but warm, clutch in, is it still hard to engage in first?

MikeM

Sometimes, it's best to just leave the hood shut unless you want to spend a bunch of money.

DansYellow66

Thinking back to my dabbling around in the guts of my transmission/new parts last spring, it occurs to me there really isn't any mechanical reason I can think of for the transmission to be more difficult to shift into first gear - versus any other gear. All four gears have the same basic syncro hub, brass syncro ring and slider assembly engagement system - nothing really different. First gear probably gets engaged more often over a long period of time and could get a bit more wear - that's about the only reason I can think of.

I'm like the others, I would make sure you are getting full clutch disengagement.

C.W.C.

Hello, I can understand your frustration with the problems you re having with shifting your transmission. I have rebuilt many Muncies in the past and there are problem areas that you (or your re-builder) may not recognize. Do a Google search and find the videos on rebuilding a Muncie trans. by a man named "Paul" as he is very knowledgeable on resolving shifting problems in addition to being a nice guy. He is the person you should be asking for advice.
DISCLAIMER: I do not know Paul personally but he does know what to look for and is a source you may wish to consider.

maxphunn

Is it easier to get into first gear when completly stopped, than downshifting while moving?

At one time, wern't the two syncro sliders only slightly different from each other? One beveled different. I seem to remember that if they were mixed up, it would be very hard to get into first gear.

DansYellow66

I think that's the two syncro hubs that engage on the mainshaft. They both install facing the same direction rather than opposing as in most 1/2 and 3/4 parts and which might catch the unaware. Not sure exactly what kind of issues it causes but probably not good.

emccomas

OK, I went back out and tried it again on a cold engine.

I tried shifting before I started the engine.

Car feels good and solid going into 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and reverse.

But it does not feel like it is going all the way into 1st.

I started the car with the transmission in neutral, car started right up.

Car goes into 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and reverse with no issues. Car moves fine in any of those gears.

But when I put it into first, it doesn't feel like it is fully engaged. If I slam it into 1st, and hold it there, it will move forward.

If I let go of the shifter handle, it pops out of gear.

What I now realize I did not do was double check and make sure it had plenty of clearance from the cross member when going into first.

The new transmission mount helped raise the trans, and the shifter, but it may not have been enough.

Clutch is definitely fully engaging and releasing as appropriate.

I will crawl back under it this weekend and see what the clearance looks like.

I bought a set of exhaust shields (which the car did not have), so they will get installed at the same time.

I did not have much time behind the wheel with the original shifter, but it never had any issues going into first. The neutral setting was off, and the shifter was "clunky", but getting in all of the gears was fine.

wmf62

does your shifter have 'stops' and are they adjusted properly?

Bill

Plasticman

Bill,

Good call.

They need to be checked and verified in each gear, since one gear may have require more "throw" than another.

John

emccomas

The stops are loosened up and out of the way. I did that when these issues first started.

Also, I believe that the stops only deal with 3rd and 4th gear lever.

In any event, they are not the issue. but it was a good idea.

wmf62

another thought.... remove linkage rod from 1st gear lever, move lever all the way into 1st gear, then check to see if linkage rod will go back into the lever hole with the shifter in 1st gear position.

Bill

emccomas

You were reading my mind Bill.

Step 1: Check to see if there is interference with the cross member.
Step 2: If interference, loosen trans mount bolts and raise trans slightly.
Step 3: Check to see if elevated trans clears cross member.
Step 4: If no interference, remove 1st/2nd gear lever from side of trans.
Step 5: Shift trans fully into 1st gear.
Step 6: See if 1st/2nd gear lever will fit back on.

DansYellow66

I think you and Bill are on the right path. And yes, the stops primarily are for 2nd and 3rd gear (can't recall if 4th hits it when adjusted for 2nd). But first won't contact it unless it is way out of adjustment for 3rd.

Did you verify you have the correct transmission shift levers for the shifter?

emccomas

Yes I did verify that I had the correct Hurst parts, by part number. I am now doubting myself about whether I got them in the right place (i.e. 1-2 lever on the 1-2 transmission fork). I am 99% sure of that, but...


I will be double checking every part, including the installation of said parts, according to the installation instructions.

I am getting tired of crawling under this car...